[MCU] The Watcher Low 1-C Upgrade + 5-D HDE

[RoTt35]

The following statements and feats (maybe some of them don't mean anything but I'll add them just in case) should upgrade The Watcher to a direct Low 1-C and grant him HDE (5-D), and I don't know if something else like Acausality:

• ‌Claims to be a 5th dimensional being.
• ‌Stated to be a being who exists outside the planes of space and time.
• ‌Stated by WoG to be above everything and everyone else.
• ‌The characters are just stories that aren't real to him, as also stated here and here.
  • ‌The verse includes 4-D beings like Dormammu and Eternity.
• ‌Infinity Ultron stated that he has the entire Multiverse at his fingertips.
• ‌Can see the totality of the Multiverse across all time and space.
• ‌Infinity Ultron stated that the boundaries of the Multiverse are irrelevant to a being like him.
  • ‌Note: The Multiverse is currently accepted at Low 1-C/5-D.

(Claims to be a 5th dimensional being who exists outside the planes of space and time of the Multiverse, whose boundaries are irrelevant to a being like him and is stated by WoG to be above everything and everyone else)

Agree: 14 (@Elizhaa, @LordGriffin1000, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Planck69, @Lonkitt, @Marvel_Champion_07, @Eseseso, @Excel616, @Cropfist, @ThanatosX, @BestMGQScalerEver, @ProfectusInfinity, @Georredannea15, @RoTt35)

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Interacting with HDE doesn't require NPI

 

[Eseseso]

The following statements and feats (maybe some of them don't mean anything but I'll add them just in case) should grant to The Watcher HDE (5-D), and I don't know if something else like Acausality:

• ‌Claims to be a 5th dimensional being.
• ‌Stated to be a being who exists outside the planes of space and time.
• ‌Stated by WoG to be above everything and everyone else.
• ‌The characters are just stories to him, as also stated here and here.
  • ‌The verse includes 4-D beings like Dormammu and Eternity.
• ‌Infinity Ultron stated that he has the entire Multiverse at his fingertips.
• ‌Can see the totality of the Multiverse across all time and space.
• ‌Infinity Ultron stated that the boundaries of the Multiverse are irrelevant to a being like him.
• ‌Is unaffected by space-time hax.

This would also grant NPI to Infinity Ultron since he can interact with and harm The Watcher, and I guess it would also grant 5-D hax to the Infinity Stones since that's what powers Ultron

Agree. Don't suppose this would mean 6-D Low 1-C for him and Vultron for being beyond the 5-D MCU, plus 1-C for K.E.V.I.N.?

 

[Excellence616]

I agree

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I'm not sure about NPI, but HDE makes sense

 

[Eseseso]

The following statements and feats (maybe some of them don't mean anything but I'll add them just in case) should grant to The Watcher HDE (5-D), and I don't know if something else like Acausality:

• ‌Claims to be a 5th dimensional being.
• ‌Stated to be a being who exists outside the planes of space and time.
• ‌Stated by WoG to be above everything and everyone else.
• ‌The characters are just stories to him, as also stated here and here.
  • ‌The verse includes 4-D beings like Dormammu and Eternity.
• ‌Infinity Ultron stated that he has the entire Multiverse at his fingertips.
• ‌Can see the totality of the Multiverse across all time and space.
• ‌Infinity Ultron stated that the boundaries of the Multiverse are irrelevant to a being like him.
• ‌Is unaffected by space-time hax.

This would also grant NPI to Infinity Ultron since he can interact with and harm The Watcher, and I guess it would also grant 5-D hax to the Infinity Stones since that's what powers Ultron

Would Uatu, Vultron, and Strange Supreme become flat-out Low 1-C?

 

[Cropfist]

‌Claims to be a 5th dimensional being.

Yeah, this seems open and shut for Watcher, not sure about the scaling though.

 

[RoTt35]

Would Uatu, Vultron, and Strange Supreme become flat-out Low 1-C?

Idk, but that isn't the purpose of this CRT anyways.

Btw, if Ultron interacting with a 5th dimensional being isn't NPI, what would it be? Range, 5-D hax, or just nothing?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Idk, but that isn't the purpose of this CRT anyways.

Btw, if Ultron interacting with a 5th dimensional being isn't NPI, what would it be? Range, 5-D hax, or just nothing?

In this case, nothing. The only context is that Uatu is a 5-dimensional guy who exists outside of the multiverse

 

[Eseseso]

Idk, but that isn't the purpose of this CRT anyways.

Btw, if Ultron interacting with a 5th dimensional being isn't NPI, what would it be? Range, 5-D hax, or just nothing?

Tbf, these statements:

• ‌Claims to be a 5th dimensional being.
• ‌Stated to be a being who exists outside the planes of space and time.

Are pretty cut and dry for flat-out Low 1-C.

 

[ThanatosX]

Yes, at this point they should be solid Low 1-C. To give an example, Archie Sonic is Low 1-C because of two statements regarding the Echidnas: one of them being in a place outside time and space and another that they exist in a higher plane of existence. This is enough to make them Low 1-C.
In this case, it's even more clear cut since the Watcher straight up says that he is a 5 dimensional being, which leave little to no room for interpretation. Damn, even DMC was 1-C because of a random statement of souls being 9 dimensional despite that lacking any context, before the statement was retconned out of existence.
On top of this, if the Watcher gets 5-D HDE, Ultron would basically automatically be Low 1-C, since to interact with someone with HDE you need AP or haxes of the same dimensionality of that character, and since Ultron physically hit the Watcher his AP would scale.
However, if we want to discuss it in a separate thread than that's fine. For now I agree with 5-D HDE to the Watcher.

 

[RoTt35]

Okay I didn't know that, I'm not an expert in Tier 1, I'll change the OP to also add the upgrade to The Watcher and Infinity Ultron to a solid Low 1-C in addition to the HDE, I guess the CRT will be more controversial than expected

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Low 1-C comes from Alioth ending the war between countless tree timelines so while I agree with the premise I'm not sure The Watcher being stated 5-D is enough to make it a solid rating

 

[Eseseso]

Low 1-C comes from Alioth ending the war between countless tree timelines so while I agree with the premise I'm not sure The Watcher being stated 5-D is enough to make it a solid rating

Dude, that's blatant Low 1-C stuff.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Dude, that's blatant Low 1-C stuff.

Yes that's why I agree with the premise. But they're also two separated feats, that's why I'm saying this

 

[Eseseso]

Yes that's why I agree with the premise. But they're also two separated feats, that's why I'm saying this

Oh, I was just saying that the 5-D thing is as clear as it gets.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

‌The characters are just stories that aren't real to him, as also stated here and here.

I have a problem with this. It's just not literal it's just metaphorical. Everything is like a story to the watcher because well all he does it watch it's not meant to be taken as "he sees us as a literal fictional book". It's not a literal metafictional transcendence.

 

[RoTt35]

I have a problem with this. It's just not literal it's just metaphorical. Everything is like a story to the watcher because well all he does it watch it's not meant to be taken as "he sees us as a literal fictional book". It's not a literal metafictional transcendence.

Yeah, I agree that the statement by itself means nothing, but we must also consider the others which state that The Watcher is a 5th dimensional being who exists outside the planes of space and time of the Multiverse and is above everything and everyone

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Yeah, I agree that the statement by itself means nothing, but we must also consider the others which state that The Watcher is a 5th dimensional being who exists outside the planes of space and time of the Multiverse and is above everything and everyone

I wouldn't say the two statements are connected. Low 1-C seems fine but to use that statement as supporting evidence doesn't really seem that "honest".

 

[ThanatosX]

Just to make things clear, Alioth would not scale to this. He have his own feat, so he would still remain 2-A, possibly Low 1-C. The only people that would scale are the Watcher, for obvious reasons, Infinity Ultron, for defeating the Watcher, and Doctor Strange Supreme, for fighting almost evenly with Infinity Ultron.

 

[Elizhaa]

Low 1-C and HDE seem fine; the r>f seems metaphorical, not literal, like stated above.
@LordGriffin1000 and @Emirp sumitpo might be able to provide their inputs since they are verse supporters and if they can.

 

[RoTt35]

Low 1-C and HDE seem fine; the r>f seems metaphorical, not literal, like stated above.

Okay thanks for your input, I already removed the r>f thing. Btw, in addition to HDE, could the statements grant any other ability to The Watcher?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Low 1-C and HDE seem fine; the r>f seems metaphorical, not literal, like stated above.
@LordGriffin1000 and @Emirp sumitpo might be able to provide their inputs since they are verse supporters and if they can.

I'm a verse supported but I've made it clear that I don't wish to be apart of any tier 1/HDE threads of any kind because of how our standards are. However, since this doesn't seem to have gone off the rails and I'm not doing anything important at the moment I'll say that I do think Low 1-C/Higher Dimensional Existence looks fine, especially if the statement about him being above everyone and everything applies to K.E.V.I.N.

 

[RoTt35]

especially if the statement about him being above everyone and everything applies to K.E.V.I.N.

It doesn't, She-Hulk was released a year after What If...? so the statement shouldn't apply to K.E.V.I.N, in addition to him being the creator of the entire MCU, therefore of The Watcher, and seeing it as fiction

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Straightforward agree.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Low 1-C Watcher (+ Infinity Ultron and Doctor Strange Supreme) should be alright

 

[Georredannea15]

Yeah i definitely agree. The fact that he states that he is a 5th dimensional being and is beyond space-time is something that clearly supports his being Low 1-C, but I do not know if this statement is directly given 5-D HDE. This could mean that he is a 3D being located in the 5th dimension or something like that.

Therefore, it needs to be 5-dimensional in terms of spatial or axis, but these statements may also be sufficient.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

It doesn't, She-Hulk was released a year after What If...? so the statement shouldn't apply to K.E.V.I.N, in addition to him being the creator of the entire MCU, therefore of The Watcher, and seeing it as fiction

Then the updates probably not going to fly with some people. Given how strick our standards are.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Then the updates probably not going to fly with some people. Given how strick our standards are.

I think you're overthinking it tbh. The cosmology already being 5-D takes off a lot of burden and paired with a lot of supporting evidence to it and also him being above and outside the totality of the multiverse (which is 5-D by sheer quantity) to an unknown degree would support 5-D HDE also getting QS.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

**** K.E.V.I.N.

All my homies hate K.E.V.I.N.

K.E.V.I.N. is blatantly R>F transcendent over all of the MCU

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I think you're overthinking it tbh. The cosmology already being 5-D takes off a lot of burden and paired with a lot of supporting evidence to it and also him being above and outside the totality of the multiverse (which is 5-D by sheer quantity) to an unknown degree would support 5-D HDE also getting QS.

I may be overthinking it but there have been several Low 1-C's that get brought into question for various reasons so I'm just putting out my thoughts. It's not to say I disagree but it's something I've come to expect at this point.

 

[RoTt35]

So what's your current position in the CRT @LordGriffin1000?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

So what's your current position in the CRT @LordGriffin1000?

I still think the proposals are fine but I'm not a Tier 1 expert.

 

[Elizhaa]

I'm a verse supported but I've made it clear that I don't wish to be apart of any tier 1/HDE threads of any kind because of how our standards are. However, since this doesn't seem to have gone off the rails and I'm not doing anything important at the moment I'll say that I do think Low 1-C/Higher Dimensional Existence looks fine, especially if the statement about him being above everyone and everything applies to K.E.V.I.N.

My bad, I thought as a staff verse supporter you might have wanted to be involved because I saw similar cases before; it won't happen again for Tier 1 threads.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Bruh... while I'm glad the MCU cosmology is solidly becoming tier 1 the fact that two of the biggest sources of evidence come from She-Hulk and Little Groot is pretty hilarious.

Will this upgrade possibly affect Alioth too?

Also correct me if I'm wrong but looking at the cosmology blog and this CRT but wouldn't this make Watcher tier characters infinite 5D? since they're above an ad infinitum 5-D structure?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Will this upgrade possibly affect Alioth too?

Why would it? Nothing about this is related to him

 

[ThanatosX]

Bruh... while I'm glad the MCU cosmology is solidly becoming tier 1 the fact that two of the biggest sources of evidence come from She-Hulk and Little Groot is pretty hilarious.

Will this upgrade possibly affect Alioth too?

Also correct me if I'm wrong but looking at the cosmology blog and this CRT but wouldn't this make Watcher tier characters infinite 5D? since they're above an ad infinitum 5-D structure?

Still pissed off by the fact that K.E.V.I.N. is the God Tier of the verse, he doesn't deserve it.
But jokes aside they would definitely scale higher than they currently do, but I am not sure if infinitely higher or just a vague "higher".

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Bruh... while I'm glad the MCU cosmology is solidly becoming tier 1 the fact that two of the biggest sources of evidence come from She-Hulk and Little Groot is pretty hilarious.

Will this upgrade possibly affect Alioth too?

Also correct me if I'm wrong but looking at the cosmology blog and this CRT but wouldn't this make Watcher tier characters infinite 5D? since they're above an ad infinitum 5-D structure?

The cosmology is solidly tier 1

It's the currently accepted feat that isn't and also doesn't even scale to the entire cosmology just countless universes

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The proposals looks fine from a glance.

 

[RoTt35]

Do we have enough staff agreement to apply the changes?