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Matoi vs. SCP-3930

I vote SCP-3930. Higher dimensional influence won't work on 3930 unless they have the ability to interact with that which does not exist, and the only way she has to get rid of the creature's masacre is to directly feed people who know about it into the void until less than 10 people exist. However, as we know, the pattern screamers will be directly targetting her so unless she hides in a higher dimension until they wipe out enough beings, it isn't going away. It essentially runs up and erases her from existence at whatever speed she percieves it.

For these reasons, I vote 3930
 
1-As would be beyond existence and non-existence by virtue of transdualism. 1-Bs would need to have a specific ability that can get around non-existence, since it specifically says that one must exist to have higher dimensions, and therefore they cannot interact with him by their definition of non-existence. Basically, this isn't normal non-existence
 
It really sounds nlf but let me ask this, has SCP-3930 fended off 1-B level reality warping? Did it even go into any higher dimensions beyond 24D?

Because as soon as the match starts, Matoi can literally teleport into a higher dimension and reality warp everything from there. The higher dimensions is like 12D at the very least since even characters like Clarus who are inferior to EoS Matoi can teleport into 12D and exist easily and Matoi was capable of going into the 24D and survive there without getting erased as well as Reality Warp all of creation.
 
Its also NLF to assume that just because you exist in a higher dimension you could effect something that does not exist. Those 2 things do not corrilate at all. Unless someone has feats of effecting something that does not exist, or has some means to bypass it, then it really doesn't matter.

She can, but she won't. At least not from what I have seen on other threads. If the gods start to percieve it from a higher dimension, then good lord that would be a shit show
 
But it's not that she only exists in higher dimensions. She can affect and reality warp all 24 higher dimensions. Arguing something that is non-existent won't be affected by 1-B reality warp is NLF unless they have feats or surviving so.

And she can actually. Even when she had no idea it existed when threatened she unconsciously used it, albeit that just sent herself to a higher dimension. Then there's the fact that her God can summon all other gods from all the 24 higher dimensions.
 
Let me explain something. Hax work to bypass stats because they in some way work on a different metric. Example, mind hax ignores durability because it attacks the mind not the body, or soul manip ignores conventional durability because it attacks the soul instead of the corporeal body. These things get called NLF on because the a higher dimensional form is often magnitudes of infinity above their usual pay grade and a higher dimensional being implies a higher dimensional mind and soul. So, does a higher dimensional existence imply the ability to ignore a being that does not exist? Of course not. In that very sentence we called it a higher dimensional existence. It's just like hyperversal AP cannot make you hit a non-corporeal being if you don't have non-physical interaction.

If they are aware of her enemy, then they have percieved. They will likely enscribe their point of view on it. Let me also remind you that the void is 0D, and trying to push a higher D shape into a lower D one erases it
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
So, does a higher dimensional existence imply the ability to ignore a being that does not exist? Of course not. In that very sentence we called it a higher dimensional existence.
Click to expand...
No that's false. Being "Non-existent" even on a zero dimensional level doesn't really give you any special Resistances to Higher Dimensional abilities especially ones that have 1-B range and potency Reality Warping unless said Chara is Non-existent in the truest form as explained in the Nonexistent Physiology page. If "Non-existent" was really a big deal then charas like Hatou Manabu or Kriemhild Gretche would be victorious against higher Dimensional Charas like Othinus or Magi Gods. In this case, SCP-3930 need to show that either a) it's a Idealistically Non-existent or b) It can survive 1-B level range and potency of reality warping. If anyone of these is the case then Kudos. But if it's not then it just goes like this, Matoi gets into Higher Dimensional level and Reality Warps. The argument that Matoi would be erased is also moot since she can exist in the 24D realm which was stated to erase anything and anyone unless they are protected by the higher dimensional gods.

It's just like hyperversal AP cannot make you hit a non-corporeal being if you don't have non-physical interaction.

Nothing wrong with this statement except that if you have Hyperversal range for that attack, you can outright bypass Non-Corporeality of the being by busting the higher and lower dimensions.
 
If they are aware of her enemy, then they have percieved. They will likely enscribe their point of view on it. Let me also remind you that the void is 0D, and trying to push a higher D shape into a lower D one erases it

Mind Hax or Perception Manipulation can work since the verse has no resistance to such haxes
 
RM97 said:
No that's false. Being "Non-existent" even on a zero dimensional level doesn't really give you any special Resistances to Higher Dimensional abilities especially ones that have 1-B range and potency Reality Warping unless said Chara is Non-existent in the truest form as explained in the Nonexistent Physiology page. If "Non-existent" was really a big deal then charas like Hatou Manabu or Kriemhild Gretche would be victorious against higher Dimensional Charas like Othinus or Magi Gods. In this case, SCP-3930 need to show that either a) it's a Idealistically Non-existent or b) It can survive 1-B level range and potency of reality warping. If anyone of these is the case then Kudos. But if it's not then it just goes like this, Matoi gets into Higher Dimensional level and Reality Warps. The argument that Matoi would be erased is also moot since she can exist in the 24D realm which was stated to erase anything and anyone unless they are protected by the higher dimensional gods.

Nothing wrong with this statement except that if you have Hyperversal range for that attack, you can outright bypass Non-Corporeality of the being by busting the higher and lower dimensions.
Click to expand...
Being non-existent is a big deal. 3930 doesn't have conventional non-existence anyway, so don't pretend like its like those other characters. Those exist on some level still, but 3930 doesn't exist in any sense, even if they are still the 0 as opposed to being transdualistic. Within a single narative, the SCP verse has dimensions in the hundreds of thousands millions, and if those cannot be said to effect 3930 by virtue of being higher dimensional then neither can Matoi. You severly underestimate how extreme the SCP foundation gets with its higher dimensions. Non-existence works like Type 5 immortality. It doesn't matter if the death manip is higher dimensional, because they aren't bound by death, unless of course them being higher dimensional specifically bypasses it due to the cosmology, or the death manip has been shown to work on those who transcend death. Also, range doesn't mean jack shit, so I don't know why you are bringing it up.

Then that means they have the means to bypass it due to their verses cosmology. Unless Matoi's cosmology somehow allows them to reach a level where not existing doesn't matter, then them being higher dimensional wouldn't let them effect it.
 
The whole higher dimension thing is something that the story itself states, btw. He's not arguing that as a default.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Being non-existent is a big deal. 3930 doesn't have conventional non-existence anyway, so don't pretend like its like those other characters. Those exist on some level still, but 3930 doesn't exist in any sense, even if they are still the 0 as opposed to being transdualistic. Within a single narative, the SCP verse has dimensions in the hundreds of thousands millions, and if those cannot be said to effect 3930 by virtue of being higher dimensional then neither can Matoi. You severly underestimate how extreme the SCP foundation gets with its higher dimensions. Non-existence works like Type 5 immortality. It doesn't matter if the death manip is higher dimensional, because they aren't bound by death, unless of course them being higher dimensional specifically bypasses it due to the cosmology, or the death manip has been shown to work on those who transcend death. Also, range doesn't mean jack shit, so I don't know why you are bringing it up.

Then that means they have the means to bypass it due to their verses cosmology. Unless Matoi's cosmology somehow allows them to reach a level where not existing doesn't matter, then them being higher dimensional wouldn't let them effect it.
Click to expand...
a) They really don't exist even in Conventional sense. Hatou literally became Non-existent to the point she didn't even exist within the reality or bound by a Multiversal+ Type 2 Concept or even as a mere possiblity. UKG also became conceptually Non-existent. So I really don't see how SCP-3930 is something more special unless it has the same level of Non-existence as The Numidium

b) Has SCP-3930 really not been affected by Higher Dimensional stuffs in the SCPverse even by Charas who have Reality Warping?? If so, can you show me scans/links/quotes??

c) Type 5 Immortality can be bypassed by Higher Dimensional Death Manip unless said Type 5 can resist Higher Dimensional Death Manip and not the opposite where "them being higher dimensional specifically bypasses it due to the cosmology, or the death manip has been shown to work on those who transcend death". What you're arguing is complete NLF. It's the same argument as having Type 5 Acausality would make a character completely immune to Higher Dimensional Causality Manipulation even though said Higher Dimensional Causality Manipulation has no feats of affecting Lower Dimensional Type 5 Acausals.

d) Pretty sure you didn't understand the range part on my comment but it's okay.


So again, has SCP-3930 been shown to be resistant against Higher Dimensional Reality Warping since your comment seems to imply he was unaffected by the SCP Higher Dimensional beings?? If so, can I get quotes/scans/link??
 
a) the reason is because of how the SCP universe regards non-existence. Even if you are higher dimensional, you exist, and as it has said, that which exists cannot conventionally effect them.

b) First off, reality warping implies them being real or existing. And I am talking about the cosmology as a whole, as the SCP Foundation, who has documented and contained numerous higher dimensional SCPs, decided that 3930 could not be higher dimensional because that which is higher dimensional must exist. This isn't about resistance, which is something you don't seem to understand. This has to do with how the SCP universe regards non-existence

c) not unless they can somehow apply the concept. Next you are gonna say that higher dimensional soul manip will work on beings that don't have souls lol
 
A) To my knowledge that's not the case. Neverwere is an example who are also Non-existent in SCP verse who predates everything in existence and is Non-existent itself and yet it doesn't get the same treatment

B) That's objectively false lmao. Reality Warping doesn't imply that at lol. Reality Warping is literally the power that can be used to do anything with reality like creating things from nothing, erasing anyone, destroying concepts, shaping space time reality, and many more. And that's not what I asked, I specifically asked if there's a scan where SCP-3930 was shown to be unaffected by higher dimensional reality warping or if there's any statement for it. You're extrapolating his zero dimensional Non-existent attribute to give it resistance to higher dimensional reality warping when that's not what I asked for. Even in the verse SCP-239 ROFL'd Neverwere via Reality Warping and you're saying they can't affect SCP-3930??? I'm seriously going to need feats or even quotes for that.

3) Most higher D death manip works like that but I digress
 
A) Neverwere has deals in the hierarchies of naratives, which is a different game entirely. If we are talking about beings who can jump naratives then of course I think they can **** with 3930, but Matoi's Gods don't reach that point by any means. Also, Neverwere plays games on a level with beings who can deal with non-existence.

B) creating things from nothing is void manip, along with erasing someone. Destroying concepts is conceptual manip. I don't give a shit what you asked for when I already said we aren't playing a game of resistances. This has to do with the SCP foundation clearly stating that higher dimensionality is a exant descriptor which cannot be used to apply to 3930.

On a side note, I'm pretty sure its PIS that 239 could effect a countless dimensional being when its full power form (A reminder that the witch child is the collected remnents of a much greater being) couldn't take on a not even fully powered 3812

C) well then if they can apply the concept then there is no issue, but if they can't then no dice.
 
A) You're backtracking now. You literally said the reason is because of how the SCP universe regards non-existence. Even if you are higher dimensional, you exist, and as it has said, that which exists cannot conventionally effect them when I said how Higher Dimensional Reality Warping can affect Non-existent beings in SCPverse. All you just have to show that 3930 has statements that suggest it can't be affected by higher dimensional stuffs. If so, then what do those extend up to???

B) Creating things from nothing is Creation and erasing them is Existence Erasure which, yes, is also a subset of Void Manipulation but they all fall under Reality Warping as a broader powerset but let's not derail the thread. You don't have to be rude just because you can't back up any proof. I specifically asked from the beginning for any sort of statements or feats that shows/proves that 3930 cannot be affected by Higher Dimensional Reality Warping and you did nothing but pull off Strawman and Non-Sequitur as well as Red-Herring and NLF. I only wanted statements or scans or even link to the story of SCP-3930 so I can confirm what you're claiming is true but you're circlejerking around without anything. You're extrapolating his state of non-existence and even his profile gets him Resistance to Higher-Dimensional Manipulation via a statement that says It is stated things must exist to have extradimensional constructio which really doesn't confirm that it has resistance to it but just proves that it is non-existent and lacks dimensionality. So again, can I get scans, statements, or links to his story or that 1-B RW can't affect him??
 
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