Marisa Kirisame vs Nanoha Takamichi

[Andykhang]

Ancient vs Modern Magic, the ordinary magician vs The White Devil. Speed equalize, Marisa in her Window era, relatively friendly match with personality involved, Win when incapacitated or defeated.

Personally, this is a very equal match, which is rare for me to find

The ordinary magicia


The White Devil

. I don't really know who could win.

 

[Yamatohime]

Many of Nanoha's powers are quite similar to youkais' ones that Marisa already met. As far as I understand the one who land hit first will be the winner... The main problem for Nanoha... Reimu's omnidirectional barrage made Marisa quite good at dodging.

 

[Andykhang]

True that. Not to mention the amount of bullet Marisa could gave out in the process.

And yeah, these two are basically the same character (they even have roughly the same age): The tryhard, never-give-up that climb to the top through hard work. But since they are put into different environment (franchise), they have different status: While Nanoha is the ace of aces, Marisa will always be the underdog no matter how you put it. So pretty much this match could be decided by the level of confident (either Marisa don't have enough (which is a no), or Nanoha having too much (which could happen, although in a slight gap))

 

[Yamatohime]

Marisa is your determinator... Never give up, never surrender. She is not best even in her own class... Alice and Patchy could outskill and outsmart her respectevly. If they survive Master Spart right into their face.

As far as I remember right though... Marisa once mentioned that Alice could wipe floor with her if our cowardy puppeteer would go all out.

 

[Andykhang]

^Yeah, though Alice never even want to go all out in the first place (She got the mentality that she would lose if she gone all out). And well, that's a problem with experience, since Alice is, at least, 3 times her age in the first place.

And beside, they can't out-danmaku Marisa, since being the best Danmaku player in term of skill isn't for show. (Though Danmaku is for show...)

Aaaand this is getting off-track. So what's your vote?

 

[Andykhang]

So right now:

Marisa: 0

Nanoha: 0

Inconclusive: 1


Any other input?

 

[Andykhang]

bump

 

[Andykhang]

Bump

 

[DontTalk]

Hmm... I would go with Nanoha here.

Nanohas shields are quite powerful capable of taking attacks comparable to her own.

That enables her to effectively close in on marisa even through danmaku.

In close combat I would judge Nanoha to be more expierienced (though it isn't her forte either) and through her great capabilities on applying binds to opponents of similar power, in close combat as well as on distance, I believe her to have a great advantage.

In long range, while marisa has the larger range through masterspark, Nanoha as someone outright holding the position of providing strategical bombardement can easier cover areas with shots and large AoE attacks making the probability of her hitting first higher.

In mid range marisa has the advantage through danmaku in my opinion, though nanoha is also capable in applying omndirectional bullet spam and dealing with it. But as mentioned through her shields nanoha can close in on marisa in that situation or escape towards longer range. In other words winning in 1/3 ranges is not enough here.

Lastly Nanoha profits from fighting a magician, because of her capability to gather the magic energy left in the area through magical attacks to power her own attacks, making it so that a lasting fight is the marisas disadvantage.

And currently Nanoha also holds advantage in AP and durability, given her most advantages.

 

[Andykhang]

Hm... Interesting. One problem though... Marisa have a magic absorbing barrier and a magic draining bullet. Since most of Nanoha feat involved magic of some kind, the fact that Marisa have that would seriously put her into a disadvantegous. Also, the range of Nanoha final move isn't so big that Marisa isn't going to escape right away.

 

[DontTalk]

Well, for the range thing it is for one thing nearly impossible to outspace with speed equal and there is a reason why nanoha usually binds opponents before using starlight breaker or similar. She has more casual bombardement for long range as well, though.

Marisa has a magic absorbing barrier and magic draining bullets? That is new to me, where does that come from? (its at least not mentioned on her profile)

But on that topic I might remind that nanoha is well trained in fighting things with anti magic shields, by using things like 2 layer magic bullets.

 

[Yamatohime]

Marisa still can propell herself via Master Spark to Rel speed if needed.

 

[DontTalk]

^that's like saying "because flight is a technique speed equal doesn't apply to flying characters".

In the first place they are might as well equalized to relativistic speed, there is no one saying to which speed a character is equalized (wether to the higher, the lower or some completly different value, just the same).

 

[Yamatohime]

^that's like saying "because flight is a technique speed equal doesn't apply to flying characters".
In the first place they are might as well equalized to relativistic speed, there is no one saying to which speed a character is equalized (wether to the higher, the lower or some completly different value, just the same).

It is usualy lower tier to avoid idiotic situation where character can outrun his projectiles with known speed. Marisa's Master Spark is just big magical photon drive (since it has actual impulse unlike many other comparable magic lasers).

 

[Andykhang]

Marisa has a magic absorbing barrier and magic draining bullets? That is new to me, where does that come from? (its at least not mentioned on her profile)

It's from DDC. The name is Magic Drain Missle and Magic Absorber. In-game, it turn bullet into power item. I don't know what is it mechanism for magic absorber though, other than it's look like a rotating flower

 

[DontTalk]

That are just the names of the techniques. It is to my knowledge nowhere described what they do outside of game mechanics (names are generally not reliable descriptions). That aside we would either way not have any idea to which level those even work, the extent of their powers could very well be completely negligible against any stronger attacks.

 

[DontTalk]

It is usualy lower tier to avoid idiotic situation where character can outrun his projectiles with known speed. Marisa's Master Spark is just big magical photon drive (since it has actual impulse unlike many other comparable magic lasers).

Flight is moving oneself by applying a force of some sort. Accelerating through master spark is moving onself by applying a force to oneself.

Its literally the same thing, you try to argue that basically any technique which induces movement is excempt from speed equal, which is completly against the purpose of speed equal.

In speed equal reaction speed and combat speed of characters is equalized in every way, even if the character opposing operates through speed spells or here through a drive.

Anotehr analogy would be that you basically claim that a spaceship with laser propulsion or for example the Baby Magnum used by its driver are exempt form speed equal, since only the walking speed of the driver is equalized. As said, it doesn't make much sense.

 

[Andykhang]

That are just the names of the techniques. It is to my knowledge nowhere described what they do outside of game mechanics (names are generally not reliable descriptions). That aside we would either way not have any idea to which level those even work, the extent of their powers could very well be completely negligible against any stronger attacks.

It could take all the danmaku in the game, if I remember correctly (it won't have much use for a bomb if it doesn't do so). And even a fairy could make a bullet that's like a blow to the gut.

 

[Yamatohime]

@DT Master Spark is laser based attack with known data (as far as I remember light based attacks are treated as real world counterparts). In case of Marisa's laser beam... It still has impulse wich is based on energy output of her attack (unlike engine output that can be lowered without lowering AP).

 

[FateAlbane]

With speed equalized, Nanoha all the way.

She has a TON of stuff she can use to counter Marisa (heck, even Marisa's profile states her weakness as her magic not being versatile enough). Not to mention that she's outclassed in both durability and attack pottency.

Nanoha is country lvl in both of them to Marisa's small country lvl.

Lasers? Won't make a difference, Nanoha also has a ton of these. And what's more, she can teleport. Marisa uses Master Spark to Try and open distance, one of two things happen: Nanoha counters with one of her own blasts, overcoming the blast and hitting Marisa because greater AP or she simply blocks with her defenses due to superior Dura.

Or even worse, warps, binds Marisa, Starlight Breaker. Nanoha has spells with homing AND they are barrier piercing projectiles, at that. Did I mention the binding? Especially effective against Marisa who would rely on her barriers and dodging skills.

She takes this.

 

[Andykhang]

^Hm... it's may not be so easy like you said though. Fisrt, Marisa's Small Country feat is only an Island away from Country (though probably Nanoha's Dura is way more). Second, though it's only Spell Card play, she's more or less have a way to deal with Nanoha as she used the same tactic as some of her opponents, which even included Reimu and Yukari's telespam. Third, the barrier look like it turn magic itself into her own power, so even touching that could be dangerous (though I could be wrong).

Also, though Nanoha could out-laser her, no way she could put out as much Danmaku as her.

 

[FateAlbane]

With speed equal, Marisa is not beam spamming so freely against someone who, besides throwing her own (stronger) lasers...

1. Is pretty much used to dealing with beam spam. Fate, Reinforce/Book of Darkness... All of them know how to beam spam. "I'm filling everything in the sky around us with lasers" level of beam spam, so it's not that far from Danmaku either. Didn't stop Nanoha from either dodging or outright tanking every single hit they threw at her.

2. The enemies beam spamming her, most of the time were either at the same level (like in Nanoha vs Fate) or even stronger than Nanoha(vs Book of darkness) and she still took a ton of hits before either winning or lasting long enough for an ally to come. I don't see how Marisa's danmaku here, having less AP than her durability and barriers, is taking Nanoha out before she herself succumbs to Nanoha's own array os spells.

3. To make matters worse for Marisa, Nanoha can warp and Nanoha can heal. She can use crystal cage which not only seals her opponent but prevents him from using his magic. I won't talk much about her molecular manipulation because it has been a while since I last saw the series.

4. Blaster System. I don't know if she would go so far as to use this in this battle, being friendly and all... But not only she gets a defensive and offensive boost, she can also create bits that can bind the target as well and then launch an attack multiplied in force by as many blaster bits she is using. Whatever she does will be getting a boost of equal force. Meaning if she throws a Divine Buster or an Exelion Buster with 3 BB, all of them will execute the same action. It's like four Nanohas firing the laser together. And the bits are not restricted to one action either. They may bind the target and while the target is dealing with this, Nanoha can already do her thing and be assisted by the bits (like she did in the StrikerS series with Exelion Mode + 3 Blaster + Divine buster).

5. Strike flame: With the same speed and greater AP, if Nanoha uses this, Marisa is not getting out of it unscathed. It's more of a charge sort of attack, a physical blade infused with energy which trespassed even Reinforce's barriers, who was stronger than Nanoha during A's.

6. Marisa's profile doesn't mention magical absorption, but even if she had that, it's not giving her the win in this situation. Reinforce/Book of Darkness had Absorption as well (absorbing the person using magic along with the magic she was using, by the way) and that didn't prevent Nanoha from hitting her with, well, Magic. Also, her barriers give her resistance to magical factors as well, won't be that easy to drain her.

Taking all that into account along with the difference in AP to Dura... Definitely Nanoha. Nanoha has the edge in everything, except speed, and with that equalized.... No way I see Marisa winning.

 

[Yamatohime]

Like I said Marisa has better speed via Master Spark. Its AP can be used for burst movement (and firing at enemy if it try to follow). ^_^

P.S.: And Marisa is not real beam spammer.

 

[FateAlbane]

Again, moot point because Nanoha has lasers as well. If you say Marisa can boost herself to Relativistic with a burst of Master Spark, I can argue that the moment she tries using MS, Nanoha counters with her own array of lasers that move at the speed you're suggesting and Marisa gets murderized by a ton of lasers which move way faster than she can react and have more AP than her Dura can deal with.

If she fires at Nanoha, Nanoha counters with her lasers which are stronger in AP, overcoming the MS and hitting Marisa.

 

[Yamatohime]

I can't remember... Really... Do Nanoha's lasers have impulse part? Because mini-hakkero do not nulify recoil. That's the reason for acceleration.

 

[FateAlbane]

I'm not saying Nanoha uses a burst as well. What I'm saying is that if you say that Marisa gets a burst of speed because you're considering Master Spark Relativistic, then Nanoha, who attacks with lasers as well, can simply shoot her lasers against Marisa and she won't be able to react because both of them are using relativistic attacks.

Nanoha has Photon Magic manipulation.

If we consider Master Spark which is light magic as Relativistic despite speed being equalized for this match, Nanoha's Light Lasers should also be treated as such. It's the exact same sort of power. Then Marisa uses a MS and Nanoha counters throwing her own lasers against Marisa. Nanoha can tank a ton of Marisa's attacks. The other way around is not true.

But whatever the case, there's way too many factors aside from that making this go in Nanoha's favor. Besides all that stuff I mentioned above, Nanoha even has bind spells which appear RIGHT where her enemy is atm.

And she can use them while doing or charging another powerful attack, like she did against Fate. Marisa gets befriended by the end of this, ze.

 

[Yamatohime]

I used energy behind Master Spark, not the speed of beam.

 

[Andykhang]

bump

 

[P.Gyuri]

How good is Nanoha's teleportation? Could she use it to close the Master spark gap and bind Marisa (then use starlight breaker)?

 

[Andykhang]

I don't really know. I only remember that she have none, and it was her companion that have it.

 

[FateAlbane]

Nanoha not having teleportation? Even characters like Yuuno Scrya (who is pretty much fodder when you consider Nanoha as a whole), have teleportation and/or transport spells. Anyways, this thread is pretty old (there's that thing of not bumping threads older than a month or something).

But to answer the question, yes, she could close the gap with teleportation. To be honest, she doesn't even need to be close to cast the binding. It's just "use and it appears around the opponent". She can also cast it amidst another spell, as you can see here, up to 2:15, more or less. She was about to use Starlight Breaker, Fate tries to escape, gets insta-binded from afar, before Nanoha has even fired the SB - also it's Season 1 Nanoha in the video, who is vastly inferior to the current one.

 

[P.Gyuri]

Nanoha takes this then

 

[JBennett]

If this was a battle to win and not a frendly battle I would agree that Nanoha would win but since it is I'm going to say that Marisa has it. since its a friendly battle they're not going to take it seriousy which means Nanoha would have the biggest dissavantage since she wouldn't go all out to overwelm Marisa while Marisa on the other hand would have no problem Going out all in a friendly match.

While Nanoha does have more firepower and magic skill then Marisa, Marisa on the other hand has more battle experience through her Danmaku battles so her reflexes are sharp since she's literly dodgeing thousands of Magical bullets.

I won't say that Nanoha can't win but that if its simply just a friendly battle then Nanoha wouldn't really try to take Marisa out while Marisa would.

 

[Andykhang]

bump