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Mario vs. Sonic, Death Battle edition.

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The real cal howard said:
Heck, the minimum was supposed to be put back down to 5-A months ago. That's not even waiting on a thread because that thread has been made and accepted a while ago.
Click to expand...
Only 5-A super form boss is Perfect Chaos though.
 
Dark Gaia too. Meanwhile, Sonic has fought literally zero 4-A threats and it includes comes from "should be superior to x". Not to mention the variable tier bites you in the butt here.
 
For the same reasoning that I already countered months ago. Final bosses scale to Dark Gaia. Dark Gaia doesn't scale to the final egg blaster because no one tanked a shot from that or anything.
 
Space Colony Ark with all the Chaos Emeralds can bust stars as stated in the Japanese version of SA2 and Shadow the Hedgehog, which is above 5-A.
 
Also, can we stop hating on DB already? Yeah, they lowballed the characters, but we've had way worse shit on the wiki before. Hell, we used to have Mario as building level. I also really can't blame them for saying that Sonic isn't FTL. He doesn't have any feats on that level, only statements. The statement that we like to use claims that Sonic is the fastest video game character in existence, which is clearly false. They've gotten much better, and we used to have stupid rankings for tons of our characters.
 
Legit doesn't change my point. If you're gonna have a variable tier you're gonna have to take the low ends with the high ends.

Also like...scans to back up your claim? Everyone knows at this point that Hoshi can mean both planets or stars, so...yeah.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Space Colony Ark with all the Chaos Emeralds can bust stars as stated in the Japanese version of SA2 and Shadow the Hedgehog, which is above 5-A.
Click to expand...
Okay, but why should Super Sonic scale?
 
I just wanna say Shadow The hedgehog said it could pirece stars which =/= busting entirely in one shot
 
The Chaos Emeralds, those empowered by it and all the final bosses that fought Super States scales to Final Egg Blaster and the Biolizard that merged with the Space Colony Ark which was previously powered by all the Chaos Emeralds and in that state, it was stated to be able to pierce/destroy the stars akin to the Final Egg Blaster in the game: Shadow the Hedgehog.
 
Okay, but why should Super Sonic scale?

Same power source, also the fact that Sonic and Shadow fought the Biolizard when it fused with the Space Colony Ark.
 
It's strange to think that Eggman keeps searching for the Emeralds power [stated to be one of the most powerful powersource of the verse] when he can create something far powerful than them, but Eggman only mostly created 5-A robots, the Time Eater was found not created by him, both the Eggwizard and Salamander drained energy from the Power of the Stars/Sol Emeralds. He could have used the emerald powers to power the Final Egg Blaster, i see that you are trying to downgrade them, but they indeed defeated Solaris, i hope you will not say outlier at this point.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Same power source, also the fact that Sonic and Shadow fought the Biolizard when it fused with the Space Colony Ark.
Click to expand...
By that logic it should be 2-C, as it's the same power source as 2-C Super Sonic. They fought the Biolizard, but they never tanked a shot from the cannon.
 
The Space Colony cannot access to the full power of the emeralds that comes from the positive emotions of the users and those around him as stated in both SA and S06, its not 2-C.
 
Dark649 said:
It's strange to think that Eggman keeps searching for the Emeralds power [stated to be one of the most powerful powersource of the verse] when he can create something far powerful than them, but Eggman only mostly created 5-A robots, the Time Eater was found not created by him, both the Eggwizard and Salamander drained energy from the Power of the Stars/Sol Emeralds. He could have used the emerald powers to power the Final Egg Blaster, i see that you are trying to downgrade them, but they indeed defeated Solaris, i hope you will not say outlier at this point.
Click to expand...
That's like saying that because the Force is a the most powerful thing in Star Wars, its should be scaled above Death Stars (not counting EU). It's not like Eggman can just bust out Final Egg Blasters like they're nothing. The Chaos Emeralds are still objectively better. And I'm not saying that the Chaos Emeralds don't give out 4-A power if need be. I'm saying that it's a variable, which is the only reason tier 2 got accepted in the first place. If you're gonna accept tier 2 due to the variable, you'd have to accept tier 5. Thing is, if it showed a tier 5 cap at one point, clearly the Chaos Emeralds didn't give the amount of energy needed. And even if I wanted to downgrade Solaris scaling (and I'm not going to act like I don't), I couldn't.
 
In Sonic Battle, Dr. Eggman Robotnik creates the Final Egg Blaster. This weapon is capable of destroying an entire star cluster.

Now keep in mind that Dr. Eggman blew up an entire Star Cluster just to get control of an android named Emerl who possessed all the Chaos Emeralds. It would make no sense for the Chaos Emeralds to be weaker than the weapon used by Doctor Eggman, and this is the lower limit of their power.
 
@Cal Would it be so bad to list all three tiers instead of lowest and highest only? Just curious, I'm not sure if it's even okay to do that with a variable tier.
 
ShakeResounding said:
@Cal Would it be so bad to list all three tiers instead of lowest and highest only? Just curious, I'm not sure if it's even okay to do that with a variable tier.
Click to expand...
That's perfectly okay.
 
Then it's fine by me. If anything, it only opens more opportunities for VS matches while also keeping Super Sonic's absolute lowest end known.

@Shadow Trust me, with how much we've talked, you know by now that I love Sonic. I don't see any harm done in listing 5-A while also keeping the 4-A and 2-C statistics intact.
 
I totally understand that. Super Sonic struggling with Dark Gaia is a little flimsy, and I definitely see how he basically stomped Perfect Chaos with little to no trouble.

I'm fine with keeping the low-end at 4-A, but I'm not against a 5-A low-end either. I'm neutral here.
 
Perfect Dark Gaia is 4-A not because of ya own feats but because of scaling to Super Sonic. Who varies. The only beings that should be 4-A are the super forms themselves when powered to that level.
 
The real cal howard said:
Perfect Dark Gaia is 4-A not because of ya own feats but because of scaling to Super Sonic. Who varies. The only beings that should be 4-A are the super forms themselves when powered to that level.
Click to expand...
He also absorbed the Chaos Emeralds' power and drained them of their negative energy to reach that state.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
He also absorbed the Chaos Emeralds' power and drained them of their negative energy to reach that state.
Click to expand...
By that logic he could be 2-C, which is wrong.
 
Which is wrong in this context: What Cl is saying is that Super Sonic, which is a transformation that varies with its powers because of the Chaos Emeralds) shouldn't have a 4-A low end because he has only 1 4-A feat and a lot of lower ones.

Even if you argue Dark Gaia absorbed the power of the Emeralds, it wouldn't make him 4-A because Emerald's power varies, and there have been lower ends.
 
Or simply the Emeralds amped him on that level because Sonic needed to.

And you can't really argue that anything that Eggman could possibly ever make would be always inferior to 4-A since he made not one, but two 2-C mechs.
 
Eggman mostly made High 6-A to 5-A mechs, he never made Low 2-C to 2-C mechs as he only empowered them via other sources like PoS or Emerald Power to make them that stong or found them like Time Eater.
 
Egg Salamander was amped by the Sol Emeralds, which are alternate Chaos Emeralds. Egg Wizard used the Power of the Stars.

Final Egg Blaster is a 4-A weapon but Eggman still sought the Chaos Emeralds' power.
 
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