Mario vs Joker (Persona 5)

[ChocomilkAlex]

I really have no idea why nobody has thought of this yet, but seeing as how they're both in Smash...

Mario vs Ren Amamiya (Joker)

Both Bloodlusted, Speed Equalized, Both at High 4-C

Nintendo's All Star vs Atlus's Newest Fuckboy

Battle Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOC0ig2Rk1g&t=6s

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

Ren defy Mario´s fate///

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

I think "defying fate" mean a resistance to fate manipulation, something that is useless against mario

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

ChocomilkAlex Since when Mario has a Acausality Type 4?

 

[Jinsye]

Since when does Acausality mean you have fate manipulation.

 

[GyroNutz]

'both bloodlusted'

Mario seals

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Why sealing out of all the other things on his profile?

Also, why are they bloodlusted?

 

[GyroNutz]

It's one of his better abilities, although I suppose he could try something like transmutation instead

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Yeah, he has 1001 forms of hax, so I'm not sure why one would be chosen over the other, lol. I'm also unsure if he's ever been bloodlusted in any of his games.

I'm actually curious as to why they're even bloodlusted in the first place?

 

[GyroNutz]

Yeah, he has 1001 forms of hax, so I'm not sure why one would be chosen over the other, lol.

Bloodlust = the character uses their best hax right from the start

And idk why they're both bloodlusted either.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

But why would sealing be better than transmutation? They're both one shot hax, which is why I'm unsure which exact hax would be used. Plus, bloodlust is normally taken that the character uses the best hax. But that's not always true. For many characters, such a blind rage causes them to forget all their best skills and focus on melee. Or perhaps they torture their opponents instead of killing them.

Ah, alright. Guess I will wait for the OP.

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

Why sealing out of all the other things on his profile?
Also, why are they bloodlusted?

Bloodlusting a character is the most convinent way of deciding who would win in a fight. I have no doubts that Mario or Joker would kill each other in character. But it's just more convinient this way. I do see where you're coming from though

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I wouldn't say it's more convenient. It's just a different way of doing the fight. It eliminates things like character, personality, even certain aspects of intelligence. And replaces them with other aspects of those things.

Personally I see it more as incon. They both resist some of each other's hax, so it depends on what they open with. But since they both can open with a way to incap the other, I don't see why one would win.

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

Mario: 0

Joker: 0

Inconclusive: 1

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Inconclusive for reasons stated above

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

Mario: 0

Joker: 0

Inconclusive: 2 (DaBigP) (Litentric Teon)

 

[GyroNutz]

Hmm fine, incon FRA

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

Stalemate FRA

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Who has more ways? Who has the AP advantage? Pretty sure Mario has both so he wins imo.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

More ways doesn't equal more likely here, since many of Mario's hax is resisted. Same with Joker.

AP doesn't seem to matter much here either since their hax is so much more effective, and they're bloodlusted.

It really depends on what they start with. And both being game characters whose bloodlust has removed any trace of their character, it's hard to say. Incon is the safer bet.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Tfw Death Battle has better rules on bloodlust than us... (this isn't a blow against you as much as it is against us)

That's not how a match should work. Whoever has more likely ways to win should take it.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I actually agree. I don't think bloodlusted means "Use their best hax first"

Does Mario actually have more ways? Many of them are resisted. I guess we can go through and count them.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Mario has: Sleep manip, Time manip, Sealing, Mind control, empathic manip, Void manip, petrification, Transmutation, BFR, power null, attack reflection

Mario Resists: Transmutation, Poison Manip, Sleep manip, Instant death, Time Manip, Power null

Joker Has: Nuclear Manip, Attack nullification, Attack absorption, Attack reflection, Resistance negation, Curse Manip, Status effect inducement, Mind manipulation

Joker Resists: Time manip, Existence erasure (I'm also unsure on his keys. His other potent resistances seem to be listed in his last key, but having watched the game and knowing in person those whom have played it, mid game he definitely has the following as well), Mind manip, memory manip, various elemental attacks, radiation manip, likely sleep manip

I've left out some of the more conventional ways of attacking for obvious reasons. Please let me know if I've missed anything.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I personally think Mario just beats him down as their ways to beat each other without it just cancels out.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Technically we have 5 ways to 8, lol.

What's the AP difference? I have no clue.

If Mario one shots, then sure. But if he doesn't, then meh. Joker also has physical attack reflection, so that may not actually work.

 

[Jasonsith]

Mario

AP: At least 9.87976E+44 J or 2.36132E+35 tons TNT (possibly from this feat), possibly 1.18557E+47 J or 2.83358E+37 tons TNT (collecting 120 such stars).

Durability: Same as AP

Ren Amamiya (Mid-Game)

AP: Possibly 5.69E+41 J ~ 3.817e42 J by scaling to "Futaba+", whose palace contained a Sun whose GBE of stars are measured as such.

Durability: (ditto)

Mario has a mar-ssive AP advantage, but both should be about haxxed such that the large AP advantage may not constitute an AP stomp.

I vote Mario for AP and durability advantage but I do not think this is a stomp since any miss on pulling the appropriate counter could ignore the AP/dura advantage gap and decide the winner.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

But that also doesn't take into account the fact that Ren can make it so that he literally reflects physical attacks. He's not just going to stand there and let Mario hit him. Yeah, he wants to kill Mario because he's bloodlusted. That doesn't mean he's going to be a fool about doing so.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Also, thank you for the AP difference.