Maou Gakuin Source Upgrade

[Dark_Soul20189]

Dude, it's already updated. Stop rushing things. It's not like everyone is free to roam the site 24/7. I just came online and am reading other notifications too.

You updated it after I posted, I waited quite a bit of time too to remind you.

 

[Reiner04]

It's okay guys. votes aren’t going anywhere just yet. It hasn’t been long since more staff members responded and it also hasn’t been long since OP came online, well way after them. Give OP a reasonable time and be patient.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Also would be thankful if you could take another here at Dog explanation here.

His explanation is just so wrong.

To be Information Manipulation Type 2, information must be a fundamental building block,

Buddy, you are just a genius among geniuses. I wonder how you can't get that of reality in your brain. You put it all in, but just when you're about to copy-paste it, you forget about reality.

this information needs to define a "something"

It isnt a nere something, but the reality (the world, easy to understand for you this way).

just as code/data defines a video game world,

Yeah a game world, the reality of the game, not just something.

any change in these dates/codes would result in a change in the behavior of the game itself, changing rules or the functioning of the game, without these dates/codes the game itself could not exist.

Yeah the game/really couldn't exist without it.

Be information (need to be something that falls into information);

Sure.

Fundamentalism (the game would not be able to exist without these codes/information);

Fundamental to the reality.

Change (changing a code/information will result in changing the game itself/what the information defines);

The reality it defines.

Be Information:

These are memories, which fall into information as long as they meet the other criteria.

Peak wut.

Fundamental:

The body's memories ("codes") existing in a source are completely fundamental to the body's ("game") existence, without this information, the body cannot exist, or even be reconstructed.

Again, this is just shit. You did the same thing in the previous thread and you got cooked and told by the staff that it isn't how it works. Is the body the reality? Your attempt to make an analogy between the body and a game is just, how can I put it, meaningless.

Change and Fundamental block of building:

Memories are fundamental to the existence of the body and define each part of the body, both inside and out (hair, physique/shape, organs, etc), any change in these memories will change the body itself.

Bruh please read this again

Fundamental: These characters can manipulate information that serves as a fundamental building block of reality. This information is shown to compose reality similar to how data underlies a video game world, code defines the rules of a simulation or in a fashion equally fundamental to these examples. This may allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality.

The body and what I don't know matters little, what is of interest here is reality/world.

Extra/edit:

The memories of the source are also in some way directly linked to the source, to the point that it is impossible to change the memories of the body that exist in the source without affecting the source, the source is the fundamental concept of someone's existence in MG, I don't know if that helps in any way, but I believe it is something remarkable to say.

Worthless.

Wrong premise==wrong conclusion.

 

[Dog3352]

His explanation is just so wrong.

Buddy, you are just a genius among geniuses. I wonder how you can't get that of reality in your brain. You put it all in, but just when you're about to copy-paste it, you forget about reality.

It isnt a nere something, but the reality (the world, easy to understand for you this way).

Yeah a game world, the reality of the game, not just something.

Yeah the game/really couldn't exist without it.

Sure.

Fundamental to the reality.

The reality it defines.

Peak wut.

Again, this is just shit. You did the same thing in the previous thread and you got cooked and told by the staff that it isn't how it works. Is the body the reality? Your attempt to make an analogy between the body and a game is just, how can I put it, meaningless.

Bruh please read this again

The body and what I don't know matters little, what is of interest here is reality/world.

Worthless.

Wrong premise==wrong conclusion.

Your complaints are just about AOE things, besides, your comments are kind of "aggressive" no? Starting with a clear attack on someone's intelligence is not exactly a kind of good conduct in this wiki.

Anyway, as @EldemadeDityjon himself said in OP himself, depending on the case, it is not necessary to define an entire reality/universe/world to be info 2.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

His explanation is just so wrong.

Well Staff can decide that..

Bruh please read this again

Building Blocks of reality doesn't mean Universe or world itself otherwise you wouldn't be giving HGR to individual characters.

 

[RitsuØ1]

His explanation is just so wrong.

Buddy, you are just a genius among geniuses. I wonder how you can't get that of reality in your brain. You put it all in, but just when you're about to copy-paste it, you forget about reality.

It isnt a nere something, but the reality (the world, easy to understand for you this way).

Yeah a game world, the reality of the game, not just something.

Yeah the game/really couldn't exist without it.

Sure.

Fundamental to the reality.

The reality it defines.

Peak wut.

Again, this is just shit. You did the same thing in the previous thread and you got cooked and told by the staff that it isn't how it works. Is the body the reality? Your attempt to make an analogy between the body and a game is just, how can I put it, meaningless.

Bruh please read this again

The body and what I don't know matters little, what is of interest here is reality/world.

Worthless.

Wrong premise==wrong conclusion.

Bro. There are other ways to disagree besides attacking someone’s IQ. Well, attacking in general.

 

[Reiner04]

Your complaints are just about AOE things, besides, your comments are kind of "aggressive" no? The way you talk about others should at least be a manner.

Anyway, as @EldemadeDityjon himself said in OP himself, depending on the case, it is not necessary to define an entire reality/universe/world to be info 2.

Yeah. concept, as long as govern all of object that attached to it completely. They qualify. amount of objects doesn't matter. Same should be true IM2 considering both are related to governing reality and highly overlap. asked and confirmed it b4 long ago

https://vsbattles.com/members/donttalkdt.1149/page-12#profile-post-comment-86285

Anyways everyone knock off with lil insults towards each other and focus on topic.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Your complaints are just about AOE things,

Nah.

besides, your comments are kind of "aggressive" no?

Oh. Excuse me if that's the case.

The way you talk about others should at least more calm.

Yeah.

Anyway, as @EldemadeDityjon himself said in OP himself, depending on the case, it is not necessary to define an entire reality/universe/world to be info 2.

Own belief, I don't see where the standards mention it since the standards are about the reality, and further specified the world.

Bro. There are other ways to disagree besides attacking someone’s IQ. Well, attacking in general.

Until proven otherwise, I have not attacked his IQ, just his tendency to omit a crucial detail.

Building Blocks of reality doesn't mean Universe or world itself

Nah it means the world itself.

otherwise you wouldn't be giving HGR to individual characters.

What? HGR is about regenerating from the complete erasure of a fundamental aspect of the character's existence, I don't see the connection with reality here. A fundamental aspect can be the narrative, a concept or IM 2 but I don't see the connection here with the fact that reality is not necessarily the world.

Yeah. Personal concept, as long as govern all of object that attached to it completely. They qualify. amount of objects doesn't matter. Same should be true IM2 considering both are related to governing reality and highly overlap. asked and confirmed it b4 long ago

Sorry, but there is no similarity between a personal object and IM2. As you said, a personal concept governs an object, not a reality, unlike Type 1 & 2 concepts. It is these two that have a similarity with IM2, not personal concepts.

 

[Reiner04]

Sorry, but there is no similarity between a personal object and IM2. As you said, a personal concept governs an object, not a reality, unlike Type 1 & 2 concepts. It is these two that have a similarity with IM2, not personal concepts.

I mis typed in hurry. Personal concept are only those who don't govern all of their object in reality. Unlike source who governs entire character it is attached to and as DT Said in the quote:

And a concept of Naruto Uzumaki would govern all Naruto Uzumaki in the world at once, even if there is at the moment only one. If there were more, it would govern all.

Yeah it's not personal anymore.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

What? HGR is about regenerating from the complete erasure of a fundamental aspect of the character's existence, I don't see the connection with reality here. A fundamental aspect can be the narrative, a concept or IM 2 but I don't see the connection here with the fact that reality is not necessarily the world.

Sorry, but there is no similarity between a personal object and IM2. As you said, a personal concept governs an object, not a reality, unlike Type 1 & 2 concepts. It is these two that have a similarity with IM2, not personal concepts.

I don't know how you can agree with characters getting HGR based on IM Type 2 as fundamental aspects and still disagree with individual characters' existence being IM Type 2 in general.

You're just contradicting yourself.

 

[Reiner04]

I mis typed in hurry. Personal concept are only those who don't govern all of their object in reality. Unlike source who governs entire character it is attached to and as DT Said in the quote:


Yeah it's not personal anymore.

(I was hurry because of tremendous amount of pings at once btw)

Edit: Also I have some very serious issue and not feeling well, lots of mixed emotions so please stay calm and I likely won't respond anytime soon. So please be civil here.

 

[RitsuØ1]

Until proven otherwise, I have not attacked his IQ, just his tendency to omit a crucial detail.

His explanation is just so wrong.

Buddy, you are just a genius among geniuses. I wonder how you can't get that of reality in your brain. You put it all in, but just when you're about to copy-paste it, you forget about reality.

It isnt a nere something, but the reality (the world, easy to understand for you this way).

Again, this is just shit. You did the same thing in the previous thread and you got cooked and told by the staff that it isn't how it works. Is the body the reality? Your attempt to make an analogy between the body and a game is just, how can I put it, meaningless.

Worthless.

Why so stubborn and toxic? I recommend you read your own comments again. You could’ve just came out clean with an apology instead.

 

[Digital_Franz]

I don't know how you can agree with characters getting HGR based on IM Type 2 as fundamental aspects and still disagree with individual characters' existence being IM Type 2 in general.

You're just contradicting yourself.

I don't see where I'm contradicting myself since a character can possess IM2, but this information must be and be part of the fundamental building blocks of reality, not just something specific this specific.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Seeing how the Source is, in my understanding, currently accepted to be linked to concepts in the verse there is absolutely no reason at all to assume this is information-like.

That's a rather arbitrary conclusion to come to, it's akin to saying "Order" can't be a concept because it is a law or it cannot be fate because it is a concept despite being outlined as all three within the story. Your conclusion to me seems to draw from equalizing the "memories" being spoken of here to be solely a concept and as such there will be nothing wrong with the effects it has demonstrated on a person however, to abide by this would require proof that the memories are in fact a concept.

To make a correction, the source isn't linked to concepts, it is a concept, the fundamental concept of one's existence to be precise but what makes up the source?

The three things necessary for her proper birth are the pseudo-sources generated by "Eleanor". Mortal sources essentially have a frame, a heart, or more specifically, feelings, and magical power.

Ah, so that's how it is. When I use "Ask" alone, I create pseudo-bases that only give birth to feelings.

And for Forslonarliste they are equivalent to that yellow flame - a soul without a body.

Eleanor nodded understandingly and raised her index finger.

"In that case, the pseudo-sources that were used as the material to support the Heavenly Support Sword in the underground depths, which only have a frame, are they vessels without magical power? And the pseudo-bases that only have magical power, are they, in turn, a heartless doll?"

A heartless doll, a vessel without magical power, and a soul without a body. Each of these three names probably indicates an incomplete base, or, in other words, a pseudo-source.

To get something unnecessary out of the way, "heartless doll, soul without a body & vessel without magic" are gimmicks used in this domainsto represent the source's base components which are the heart (mind/thought, emotions), the frame and magic power. the combination of these three things is what forms the source (the concept).

Why do you usually reproduce only pseudo-sources, in which from the frame, heart and magical power, there is only one or two of these parts?

- ...because if you create a reproduced source with all three parts, you will get life, which will develop consciousness... - As if realizing everything, Eleanor raised her head. - So if you combine a heartless doll, a vessel without magical power and a soul without a body, you will get one whole source?

– The union of pseudo-sources – gives birth to life. On earth this would be impossible, but this place is a materialization of the order of Ennesuone; divine domains in which she, not yet born, can exist. In this case, neither the heartless doll, nor the vessel without magical power, nor the soul without a body, strictly speaking, have not yet been born. Consider that their union will lead to the birth of the base.

What the heart is should be self explanatory, it's the mind, thoughts, emotions without consciousness. Magic power is self explanatory as well, it's life energy and is a requirement/component of the source.

Under the light of the Moon of Creation, all life gained magic at the core of its being. This created the originand foundation of all life—the source. Illuminated by that silver moonlight was a battlefield where many had lost their lives. The dead bodies, broken trees, and wilted plants on that wasteland froze like time had stopped then ceased to exist. Once the old was gone, the new could be born. It was said that after thousands of nights of destruction, the Moon of Creation would shine in the sky and create new life. Through Altiertonoa’s miracle, the order of the world was maintained by cycling the lives that had been lost.

As for the frame, in the first scan, it mentions how it was used to form a pillar in the underground world.

“The Magic Eyes of Absurdity are said to be capable of altering orders,” I said. It was something Arcana had once mentioned. “It’s just like how the Moon of Creation was turned from a crescent moon to a half-moon. We can restore the broken Sky Pillar Sword as much as possible using Aisha’s Magic Eyes of Omneity and Arcana’s Magic Eyes of Absurdity.”

“Will it be possible?” Arcana wondered.

“We have no choice but to try! It’s about to fall!” Sasha replied.

Aisha looked up at the sky. The dome was right above us.

“Eleonore will create a pseudo source to become the material for the Sky Pillar Sword. It won’t be as good as the dragonborn, but it should serve as a substitute,” I said.

The frame was used as the physical make up for the pillar, reshaping the frame/giving form to the frame using the needed abilities gave rise to the pillar. The frame falls in line with the topic being discussed here, it will be the physical make up of what the source is governing so it is essentially the "memories" under contention.

The heart, frame and magic power individually cannot be dismissed as just being a concept. Given as they're still pseudo sources, one can argue it is in fact one but just because it's one thing doesn't mean it cannot simultaneously be the other. The heart will be a concept but also the mind and magic power will also be a concept but simultaneously life energy, whatever else it is used for.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Wait concepts can't be information?

I have no power on my own to accept or reject something, just like everyone else, I simply voted for what I found acceptable. Moreover, more than three staff members agreed with it, so me being there or not would have made no difference. Buzzword correlation alone means nothing. The key point, which shouldn’t be ignored, is that they are accepted as information because they are a fundamental aspect of one's body. They're working on one object.

Yes you do. You're a thread moderator. That said, I mentioned that latter bit largely in jest. It being a buzzword doesn't mean anything, but that particular buzzword does relate to Information Manipulation, a buzzword lacked in the evidence of this CRT. That means these two instances you have asked me to compare, are not identical.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

His explanation is just so wrong.

Buddy, you are just a genius among geniuses. I wonder how you can't get that of reality in your brain. You put it all in, but just when you're about to copy-paste it, you forget about reality.

It isnt a nere something, but the reality (the world, easy to understand for you this way).

Yeah a game world, the reality of the game, not just something.

Yeah the game/really couldn't exist without it.

Sure.

Fundamental to the reality.

The reality it defines.

Peak wut.

Again, this is just shit. You did the same thing in the previous thread and you got cooked and told by the staff that it isn't how it works. Is the body the reality? Your attempt to make an analogy between the body and a game is just, how can I put it, meaningless.

Bruh please read this again

The body and what I don't know matters little, what is of interest here is reality/world.

Worthless.

Wrong premise==wrong conclusion.

Play. Nice. Or. Don't. Play. The feuding is exhausting with these verses. So can it for awhile.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think I'll change my vote to side more with Bambu and DontTalkDT given what they mentioned about what went on previously.

 

[Reiner04]

relate to Information Manipulation

you mean concept. Plato's theory of concepts. And mgk source are accepted as concept.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

you mean concept. Plato's theory of concepts. And mgk source are accepted as concept.

No, I meant what I said. Concept is a broader term. Something can be conceptual and not be information type 2. Platonic concepts at least lend credence to the latter interpretation. Not that it matters since. Again. Whataboutism.

 

[Hasty12345]

From my understanding, and correct me if I’m wrong, IM2 can be attained by manipulating something akin to the source described in the OP so long as that information is a fundamental building block of reality itself - which is not the case in the OP.

Some there’s a disconnect between the source and reality as far as the information is concerned, it can’t be type 2.

So I disagree with the thread.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I think I'll change my vote to side more with Bambu and DontTalkDT given what they mentioned about what went on previously.

I'll put you on disagree (DT didn't mentioned anything about previous thread. This topic wasn't even in previous thread).

DT thought Sources are concept and we are arguing for Sources being the information. We are not arguing for that.

Seeing how the Source is, in my understanding, currently accepted to be linked to concepts in the verse there is absolutely no reason at all to assume this is information-like..

Which were addressed here that is not the case.

Maou Gakuin Source Upgrade

Let's start with some possible counters right from the get-go: "It's not directly stated to be 'Information,' so it doesn't qualify for Information Manipulation." ----There is no rule stating that it must be explicitly referred to as "information" to qualify for Information Manipulation Type 2...

vsbattles.com

That's a rather arbitrary conclusion to come to, it's akin to saying "Order" can't be a concept because it is a law or it cannot be fate because it is a concept despite being outlined as all three within the story. Your conclusion to me seems to draw from equalizing the "memories" being spoken of here to be solely a concept and as such there will be nothing wrong with the effects it has demonstrated on a person however, to abide by this would require proof that the memories are in fact a concept.

To make a correction, the source isn't linked to concepts, it is a concept, the fundamental concept of one's existence to be precise but what makes up the source?

To get something unnecessary out of the way, "heartless doll, soul without a body & vessel without magic" are gimmicks used in this domainsto represent the source's base components which are the heart (mind/thought, emotions), the frame and magic power. the combination of these three things is what forms the source (the concept).

What the heart is should be self explanatory, it's the mind, thoughts, emotions without consciousness. Magic power is self explanatory as well, it's life energy and is a requirement/component of the source.

As for the frame, in the first scan, it mentions how it was used to form a pillar in the underground world.


The frame was used as the physical make up for the pillar, reshaping the frame/giving form to the frame using the needed abilities gave rise to the pillar. The frame falls in line with the topic being discussed here, it will be the physical make up of what the source is governing so it is essentially the "memories" under contention.

The heart, frame and magic power individually cannot be dismissed as just being a concept. Given as they're still pseudo sources, one can argue it is in fact one but just because it's one thing doesn't mean it cannot simultaneously be the other. The heart will be a concept but also the mind and magic power will also be a concept but simultaneously life energy, whatever else it is used for.

So let me know if you change your mind later (Incase you missed these arguments. Otherwise no problem). Thanks for your time.

 

[NousGalia]

bump

 

[Billy390]

Why does Anos scaling only stop at V6 his page.

 

[DemonKing021]

Why does Anos scaling only stop at V6 his page.

Not really a thread to ask this. Use the discussion thread.

As for why, we are using the officially translated LN version which is currently at volume 9. As soon as new volumes are translated, new abilities will be added.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Snip.

It doesn't seem like Staffs are not interested in further debate. Just close this thread. Will drop a new threads in future.

 

[Reiner04]

Closing per OP request.