EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 20,339
- 15,797
Let's start with some possible counters right from the get-go:
"It's not directly stated to be 'Information,' so it doesn't qualify for Information Manipulation."
----There is no rule stating that it must be explicitly referred to as "information" to qualify for Information Manipulation Type 2. Depending on the context, other terms or equivalent concepts with the same meaning can qualify. This was even clarified by DT in a previous thread, where it was noted that magic formulas can qualify for Information Manipulation Type 2. However, the ones used by Maou Blog do not meet those criteria.
"It's an individual existence, so manipulating the information of that character doesn't affect reality, meaning it doesn't qualify for Information Manipulation. Or, to qualify for Information Manipulation Type 2, you need to show the universe itself being altered."
---- This looks silly, obviously, but there are some people who genuinely think reality means the universe, even though nowhere on the explanation page states that. In a previous thread, DT mentioned that if one can explain and prove how a Rock's existence is made up of information, it does qualify for Information Manipulation Type 2. Additionally, it should be noted that High-Godly Regeneration applies to characters who exist as abstractions of Information Type 2. Not to mention, the area of influence in the explanation page refers to the effect on reality where that information is influenced, not that it should be universal. It can be a single individual or an entire universe—it doesn't matter. It is just an area of influence information has.
Let's get to the main purpose: memories.
As you can see, memories can be considered information. However, to classify them as fundamental aspects rather than ordinary memories with no influence on reality, we need proper evidence. We'll discuss that below.
Melhies memory was erased and replaced by Shin
Arcana erased her own memory
Anos memories were erased by Militia
I could go on with other examples but let's stop because I don't want to turn this into Yap session. If it's really necessary for Staff evaluation I'll provide more examples.
The Source contains immutable memories (contextually fundamental information) of the body that cannot be altered. Anos removed the part of the body's memories in the Source where Sylvia's illness was located, thus directly removing the cause of the illness. Normal memory erasure would only erase memories, as seen in the cases of Anos and Melheis, without affecting the reality of a character's existence. However, that was not the case here. Instead, Sylvia's body was cured by removing the cause of her illness, which was simply a magical organ in her body. Anos even stated that if he removed something else by mistake, it would have left unwanted aftereffects on the body. Therefore, one should not mistake this for normal memories. This just shows that the Source also works as an abstraction of the body's information and supports its existence in reality. If changes were to be made to the body's memories in the Source, it would directly alter the body.
Supporting evidence for altering the Source information alters the Body directly.
Anos Body was reconstructed using a Parasite god attached to his source
The body and Source are inseparably linked. The Source works as the blueprint of the body, and when resurrection is used, it recreates the body using that blueprint. This should not be mistaken for mere memories or some form of reality warping or creation. Having past memories of who they are and what they were is not enough for this process. It requires the fundamental information necessary to reconstruct the physical existence of the individual.
As shown in the scans, Parrington's and Roncruz's Source memories were overwritten by a new body form. Although they still had their past life memories, the shape of their body memories (information) was rewritten. This made them unable to use resurrection, as they lost the fundamental information required to do so. In this case, the memories of the body act as a literal blueprint — fundamental information needed to reconstruct the body they had lost. However, they were unable to do so because that blueprint was overwritten.
Anos's Source was merged with Noah's body using the same spell Roncruz had used. Anos's Source overwrote Noah's body and returned to its original form, which also shows that the Source contains the fundamental information of an individual's existence in their current life. It shows that Source information can overwrite any other body's information and reconstruct it according to the Source's own memories of its existence. This was previously impossible for Roncruz, as his body's information was lost. The only one capable of reconstructing his body was Noah, as he alone knew the fundamental blueprint of Roncruz's body. Even Anos, who had seen flashbacks of Roncruz and Noah, couldn't do it until he regained the complete memories of himself being Noah.
There are some more stuff which can be used as example for altering source information directly altering the characters body directly. But I don't think it's that much to go on with the Yap session when there is enough feats already shows that.
If necessary will provide them.
TDLR: Normal memories can be altered or erased without causing any changes to the reality of the characters. However, the memories of the body contained in the source are different. Altering them directly modifies the information of the body, changing its form, while erasing them removes the corresponding parts of the body. Therefore, memories of the body should qualify as Type 2 information based on the Information Manipulation page.
So what I'm proposing is Source also Contains Information Type 2. Hence High Godly Regeneration also should cover this part when some character source gets erased completely.
Also Magic Should get NPI for IM type 2 for whoever can interact with Sources.
Agree: @Reiner04 (Thread Mod), @Dereck03 (Admin)
Neutral:
Disagree: @Mr. Bambu (Super Mod & Admin), @Theglassman12 (Thread Mod), @DontTalkDT (Admin and Buero), @DarkDragonMedeus (Super Mod & Admin)
"It's not directly stated to be 'Information,' so it doesn't qualify for Information Manipulation."
----There is no rule stating that it must be explicitly referred to as "information" to qualify for Information Manipulation Type 2. Depending on the context, other terms or equivalent concepts with the same meaning can qualify. This was even clarified by DT in a previous thread, where it was noted that magic formulas can qualify for Information Manipulation Type 2. However, the ones used by Maou Blog do not meet those criteria.
"It's an individual existence, so manipulating the information of that character doesn't affect reality, meaning it doesn't qualify for Information Manipulation. Or, to qualify for Information Manipulation Type 2, you need to show the universe itself being altered."
---- This looks silly, obviously, but there are some people who genuinely think reality means the universe, even though nowhere on the explanation page states that. In a previous thread, DT mentioned that if one can explain and prove how a Rock's existence is made up of information, it does qualify for Information Manipulation Type 2. Additionally, it should be noted that High-Godly Regeneration applies to characters who exist as abstractions of Information Type 2. Not to mention, the area of influence in the explanation page refers to the effect on reality where that information is influenced, not that it should be universal. It can be a single individual or an entire universe—it doesn't matter. It is just an area of influence information has.
Let's get to the main purpose: memories.
Link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory
As you can see, memories can be considered information. However, to classify them as fundamental aspects rather than ordinary memories with no influence on reality, we need proper evidence. We'll discuss that below.
Part 1: Mutable Memories
Normal memories can be altered and erased. This doesn't affect any reality or stated to be immutable in any sense.“Have you returned to your senses, Melheis?”
He lowered his head in shame. “Please accept my sincerest apologies, Lord Anos... After our last meeting, I suffered an embarrassing defeat...”
Back when I’d checked in the union tower, Melheis had possessed no memories of me, which was why it had been strange for him to be so dead set on my demise. Of course, I had considered the possibility of him hiding his memories from me somehow, but that was most likely what Avos Dilhevia wanted me to believe to lure me into eliminating one of my own allies. This would confirm that Melheis truly didn’t remember me and that the shackle had been implanted afterwards.
He lowered his head in shame. “Please accept my sincerest apologies, Lord Anos... After our last meeting, I suffered an embarrassing defeat...”
Back when I’d checked in the union tower, Melheis had possessed no memories of me, which was why it had been strange for him to be so dead set on my demise. Of course, I had considered the possibility of him hiding his memories from me somehow, but that was most likely what Avos Dilhevia wanted me to believe to lure me into eliminating one of my own allies. This would confirm that Melheis truly didn’t remember me and that the shackle had been implanted afterwards.
“I think I knew that all along. When I hid my memories and hatred with the Moon of Creation and became the nameless god, I wanted to be someone like Militia. Someone who saved those who couldn’t be saved. That was my idea of what a god should be.”
“We’re going to head for the Inzuel Empire in the continent of Azesion,” I said. “Militia left behind five magic objects called Erial, the Stars of Creation, in the ruined town of Etiltheve. My missing memories are sealed within them.”
I could go on with other examples but let's stop because I don't want to turn this into Yap session. If it's really necessary for Staff evaluation I'll provide more examples.
Part 2: Immutable Memories
“I apologize, my explanation was lacking,” Ricardo said, “My daughter is afflicted with an illness called draconic deficiency, and it involves—”
“Magic leaking out of the body, in the manner of an open hole in a vessel, eventually leading to death,” I answered. “The bangles around her arms are to seal the magic from escaping her source, but they cannot keep it fully contained.”
Ricardo looked surprised. “Does the same illness exist aboveground?”
“No, I just examined her now. The illness seems to be caused by an organ unique to dragonborn.” I peered into the abyss of her illness. “Hmm. A part of her magic organ is functioning out of control. That appears to be what’s causing it.”
Ricardo exhaled in astonishment. “What? You analyzed the symptoms and cause of draconic deficiency in mere seconds?”
“If her magic organ is treated, her draconic deficiency will be cured.”
“It can be treated?” Sylvia asked hesitantly.
“That won’t be a problem.”
“B-But Sir Anos, draconic deficiency is an illness that cannot be cured even with the power of the Keeper of Restoration. With the exception of the alpha dragon elixir, nothing magical has any effect,” Ricardo said.
“But even the alpha dragon elixir isn’t a cure; it only eases the symptoms and prevents the illness from progressing. Am I correct?”
Ricardo nodded shamefully.
“Y-Yes, that is correct. The elixir’s effects lasts for a year, so long as the user doesn’t perform any major spells. Otherwise, the symptoms will worsen again.”
“Then in all likelihood, this alpha dragon elixir is essentially a poison. It paralyzes part of the magic organ that just so happens to coincide with the part that functions out of control, and as a result, it suppresses the symptoms of dragon deficiency.”
I drew a magic circle on Sylvia’s body. “The reason the Keeper of Restoration cannot cure dragon deficiency is because it perceives nothing wrong with how the magic organ functions. Gods are order—they can restore what’s broken, but they will not change what is in accordance with order.”
“So it’s normal for the magic organ to be out of control?” Sylvia asked, looking utterly bewildered.
“Perhaps it would be simpler for me to say the magic organ has grown too much. The organ itself is normal, it’s just too powerful for the body to keep up.”
“I see...”
“And one more thing. The source holds the memories of the body, and those memories are unable to be overwritten. The cause of the illness is located there, but the Keeper of Restoration cannot interfere with the source.”
With a faint look of hope, Ricardo asked hesitantly, “What can be done about that?”
“Only the afflicted area needs to be removed. But the pain will be more agonizing than death. Are you prepared for that?”
“Yes,” Sylvia said firmly. “I am a knight. I will endure however much pain is necessary. Please do it.”
“I like your way of thinking,” I replied. “Don’t worry, it will only hurt for a moment.”
I cast Vebzud over my right hand and sunk it into Sylvia’s chest.
“Agh... Ugh...”
I focused my Magic Eyes on the center of the illness and took aim. It was hard to make a general statement when magic was involved, but the affected area was approximately one billionth the size of a heart. The afflicted area I sought to remove was at the very center of the magical organ. If I slipped here, I could potentially remove too much of the source and cause unwanted aftereffects.
I carefully moved my fingertips and split the source into two. Upon excising the afflicted area, I immediately rejoined the two pieces back.
Sylvia screamed at the top of her lungs. “Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!”
She fell unconscious as I removed my hand. I healed the hole in her chest with Ei Chael while Ricardo watched on, expression deeply worried.
“It’s a success,” I said. “The source was wounded in the process, but it will recover normally. She should wake up in a few hours.”
I sent magic into my fingertips to remove Sylvia’s bangles. The magic that, before, would have simply seeped out of her without them now safely circulated through her body.
“Magic leaking out of the body, in the manner of an open hole in a vessel, eventually leading to death,” I answered. “The bangles around her arms are to seal the magic from escaping her source, but they cannot keep it fully contained.”
Ricardo looked surprised. “Does the same illness exist aboveground?”
“No, I just examined her now. The illness seems to be caused by an organ unique to dragonborn.” I peered into the abyss of her illness. “Hmm. A part of her magic organ is functioning out of control. That appears to be what’s causing it.”
Ricardo exhaled in astonishment. “What? You analyzed the symptoms and cause of draconic deficiency in mere seconds?”
“If her magic organ is treated, her draconic deficiency will be cured.”
“It can be treated?” Sylvia asked hesitantly.
“That won’t be a problem.”
“B-But Sir Anos, draconic deficiency is an illness that cannot be cured even with the power of the Keeper of Restoration. With the exception of the alpha dragon elixir, nothing magical has any effect,” Ricardo said.
“But even the alpha dragon elixir isn’t a cure; it only eases the symptoms and prevents the illness from progressing. Am I correct?”
Ricardo nodded shamefully.
“Y-Yes, that is correct. The elixir’s effects lasts for a year, so long as the user doesn’t perform any major spells. Otherwise, the symptoms will worsen again.”
“Then in all likelihood, this alpha dragon elixir is essentially a poison. It paralyzes part of the magic organ that just so happens to coincide with the part that functions out of control, and as a result, it suppresses the symptoms of dragon deficiency.”
I drew a magic circle on Sylvia’s body. “The reason the Keeper of Restoration cannot cure dragon deficiency is because it perceives nothing wrong with how the magic organ functions. Gods are order—they can restore what’s broken, but they will not change what is in accordance with order.”
“So it’s normal for the magic organ to be out of control?” Sylvia asked, looking utterly bewildered.
“Perhaps it would be simpler for me to say the magic organ has grown too much. The organ itself is normal, it’s just too powerful for the body to keep up.”
“I see...”
“And one more thing. The source holds the memories of the body, and those memories are unable to be overwritten. The cause of the illness is located there, but the Keeper of Restoration cannot interfere with the source.”
With a faint look of hope, Ricardo asked hesitantly, “What can be done about that?”
“Only the afflicted area needs to be removed. But the pain will be more agonizing than death. Are you prepared for that?”
“Yes,” Sylvia said firmly. “I am a knight. I will endure however much pain is necessary. Please do it.”
“I like your way of thinking,” I replied. “Don’t worry, it will only hurt for a moment.”
I cast Vebzud over my right hand and sunk it into Sylvia’s chest.
“Agh... Ugh...”
I focused my Magic Eyes on the center of the illness and took aim. It was hard to make a general statement when magic was involved, but the affected area was approximately one billionth the size of a heart. The afflicted area I sought to remove was at the very center of the magical organ. If I slipped here, I could potentially remove too much of the source and cause unwanted aftereffects.
I carefully moved my fingertips and split the source into two. Upon excising the afflicted area, I immediately rejoined the two pieces back.
Sylvia screamed at the top of her lungs. “Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh!”
She fell unconscious as I removed my hand. I healed the hole in her chest with Ei Chael while Ricardo watched on, expression deeply worried.
“It’s a success,” I said. “The source was wounded in the process, but it will recover normally. She should wake up in a few hours.”
I sent magic into my fingertips to remove Sylvia’s bangles. The magic that, before, would have simply seeped out of her without them now safely circulated through her body.
Supporting evidence for altering the Source information alters the Body directly.
Veaflare sent a final rush of magic into the jewel as though to impart the finishing blow. The Parasite God Enneteroton and the Supreme Dragon attached to my source began to reconstruct my body, forming a dragon tail and wings.
The translation for Chapters 497 and 570 was done by one of the translators working on these projects, who claims to be knowledgeable in Japanese. Of course, you are free to point out any mistakes if you find any.
Part 1
English Fan Translation:
Part 2
English Fan Translation:
English Fan Translation:
As shown in the scans, Parrington's and Roncruz's Source memories were overwritten by a new body form. Although they still had their past life memories, the shape of their body memories (information) was rewritten. This made them unable to use resurrection, as they lost the fundamental information required to do so. In this case, the memories of the body act as a literal blueprint — fundamental information needed to reconstruct the body they had lost. However, they were unable to do so because that blueprint was overwritten.
Wiki Translation Link
Part 1
Correcter small context by myself which I suggested in the translation thread here as Translator didn't know about who was talking to whom.
Part 1
English Translation:
Correcter small context by myself which I suggested in the translation thread here as Translator didn't know about who was talking to whom.
Part 2
English Translation:
There are some more stuff which can be used as example for altering source information directly altering the characters body directly. But I don't think it's that much to go on with the Yap session when there is enough feats already shows that.
If necessary will provide them.
TDLR: Normal memories can be altered or erased without causing any changes to the reality of the characters. However, the memories of the body contained in the source are different. Altering them directly modifies the information of the body, changing its form, while erasing them removes the corresponding parts of the body. Therefore, memories of the body should qualify as Type 2 information based on the Information Manipulation page.
So what I'm proposing is Source also Contains Information Type 2. Hence High Godly Regeneration also should cover this part when some character source gets erased completely.
Also Magic Should get NPI for IM type 2 for whoever can interact with Sources.
Agree: @Reiner04 (Thread Mod), @Dereck03 (Admin)
Neutral:
Disagree: @Mr. Bambu (Super Mod & Admin), @Theglassman12 (Thread Mod), @DontTalkDT (Admin and Buero), @DarkDragonMedeus (Super Mod & Admin)
Last edited by a moderator:
. Also other MFS who mentioned has atleast High outerversal scaling. Even Yogiri can't beat them why Anos needs to beat them? Anos negs any fate characters except Shiki. The moment you called Anos weak without even knowing anything about other characters you mentioned shows you lack knowledge on how to scale. Anos transceds nothingness duality causality and nobody in dragon ball can even interact with anos Anos slams the verse no diff Anos use magic eyes of chaotic destruction and venuzdonoa and the verse is gone. What 
