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Send the scan for her being inexperienced. Her fight against Kostoria and Magic Bullet inhabitants shows different from what you people are claiming not to mention it's own passives which are active and one which killed Kostoria in Volume 12 when she tried to make it submit.
I already pointed out that the author makes it clear that other Authorities can counter Venozdonoa’s powers if they’ve reached the Abyss. Either you people are in disbelief, or you’re trolling by not looking at what the series and author have pointed out.
An Abyss World Chief God putting up a fight against characters holding Venozdonoa is not really anything out of the ordinary.
Anos himself couldn’t one shot Vlad, who had Chaotic Eyes and had reached the Abyss World. Really, can we stop with the it was Anos, he should somehow be able to one shot a character who should be superior to Vlad Yeah, yeah, another case of PIS for you people—because you can either logically explain that, or accept what the author and the series have established regarding the Abyss layer.
Whenever something unbelievable for you people happens PIS rule it out?
Well, basically, it uses his shadow magic and chaos, I think. The only thing I can say for sure is that Venozdonoa is the result of the Chaotic Eyes and Abernyru’s power merging. Also, the shadow works like Noah’s signature magic. But yes, it was created by Anos, not Noah. I think it has all of them combined together.
Well, basically, it uses his shadow magic and chaos, I think. The only thing I can say for sure is that Venozdonoa is the result of the Chaotic Eyes and Abernyru’s power merging. Also, the shadow works like Noah’s signature magic. But yes, it was created by Anos, not Noah. I think it has all of them combined together.
Anos himself couldn’t one shot Vlad with Chaotic Eyes who had reached the Abyss World. Really, can we stop with the it was Anos, he should somehow be able to one shot a character who should be superior to Vlad Yeah, yeah, another case of PIS for you people—because you can either logically explain that, or accept what the author and the series have established regarding the Abyss layer.
did anos use his chaotic eyes against vlad? I pretty sure he used it to remove the evansmana attack from his source, only that was a problem for him. He was easily beating vlad with other spells.
I have seen a few people have Maoyuu Maou Yuusha (Archenemy and Hero) as a true harem(harem ending). Just asking, does it really have one before I touch it?
did anos use his chaotic eyes against vlad? I pretty sure he used it to remove the evansmana attack from his source, only that was a problem for him. He was easily beating vlad with other spells.
After checking the chapter it's unknown but still even if you say he used against Evansmana attack isn't that already ridiculous? He couldn't destroy it and needed pull it out with his own hands?
My Eyes of Chaotic Destruction activated, and I tore open my own chest with my fingertips and thrust my right hand into my source. I grabbed the crisscrossing flash of the white-rainbow sword and tore it off with all my might.
I have seen a few people have Maoyuu Maou Yuusha (Archenemy and Hero) as a true harem(harem ending). Just asking, does it really have one before I touch it?
After checking the chapter it's unknown but still even if you say he used against Evansmana attack isn't that already ridiculous? He couldn't destroy it and needed pull it out with his own hands?
For me this was just another moment of Shu wanting to impress us with how out of the ordinary Anos is. This way it was much more memorable than him just activating his chaotic eyes and destroying
After checking the chapter it's unknown but still even if you say he used against Evansmana attack isn't that already ridiculous? He couldn't destroy it and needed pull it out with his own hands?
I doubt he used it against vlad, even eizel who should be stronger true emperor just crumbled on it's own after the gear acknowledged that smth like perfect justice is a contradiction.
as for the evansmana thing, ig it should to do some damage and give trouble to him as only weakness of anos, specially since it had reached abyss level as well. And anos also says choatic power is too much for him to handle currently.
The power of chaos is a bit much for me to handle, and a single blow from the Spirit God Human Sword is a little taxing.
I doubt he used it against vlad, even eizel who should be stronger true emperor just crumbled on it's own after the gear acknowledged that smth like perfect justice is a contradiction.
as for the evansmana thing, ig it should to do some damage and give trouble to him as only weakness of anos, specially since it had reached abyss level as well.
It’s a weakness against his source because of the near-perfect LOD, blah blah — but how is that supposed to support the idea that it’s also a weakness against his Chaotic Eyes power?
He is not saying 'chaotic eyes power' instead of ' power of chaos.' Why are you interpreting it as 'chaotic eyes' rather than the 'chaos' that exists in the Abyssal World? It says 'for me to handle' rather than 'control the power he has.'
Also, even if we acknowledge that it was talking about his own power, why are you assuming it’s talking about his eyes? The only confirmation we have about him not being able to use Chaos power is regarding his body, because he doesn’t have Noah’s body. The Chaotic Eyes he and Noah possess are the same, so why assume his eyes got weakened automatically?
Lay isn't even a bum and why bring him into this? Sasha's usage of Venuz is pe=oor compared to it's creator and that's a fact and yes, Venuzdonor negged every single one of Duelniga's attacks Sasha used it on.
Let me spit it out for you. I'm claiming her Authority rules over chaos too. Duelniga was able to use Chaos in follow up chapter. Even though it's rules has been destroyed in previous chapter
What rules exactly got destroyed? We were only given a general statement of destroyig the logic of chaos but what did it do specifically? That we were not told. Venuzdonoa can passively erode order but what specific thing it does is still up to it's user. Despite destroying the logic of Evansmana being unable to harm holy beings where we are told Venuzdonoa was eroding the order of that place, it did not destroy Jerga, a being made of that very same order it was eroding.
Amped by chaos? That was no amp. The normal chaotic red meteor magic bullets are already chaos she's controlling normally. Duelniga has one specific move that she can use to one shot people just like how several characters have Great Deep Sea Magic that is their trump card. Aisha never used Venuzdonoa to negate that specific attack cause she's a bum.
She has shown to destroy her enemies and did better with previous Volumes against a inhabitants who didn't reached Abyss you are just making up excuses here.
Making up excuses? Name one character Sasha has destroyed with Venuzdonoa. Even in the world of magic bullets, all she did was destroy Odus's order that makes any attacks that aren't magic bullets ineffective and the captains got wasted by Aeges.
In volume 12, it's said Sasha was a better user of the sword than Kostoria, that alone proves there is such a thing as being better/knowing how to use the weapon. By sheer feats and showings, Anos is a far better user and it's not even close. For one, Sasha stupidly opts for close combat when she can nuke from any distance away.
You are just a Non believer that's all. There are some small inconsistency but not all. I disagree with everything being PIS just because of your beliefs
To call someone a non believer indicates you're an agenda pusher. If I were to borrow Sasha's words from volume 2, I don't need to believe cause I already know. There is a difference. You say small inconsistency but it isn't small at all.
Eleonore taking 2000 years to reincarnate: In volume 3 she says she reincarnates immediately after she dies because she is magic
Misa Reincarnating at all: It was a big plot point of both volumes 2 & 4 that spirits don't reincarnate and resurrect immediately even if they are destroyed as long as their rumors persist. That's 3 volumes of info contradicted.
Zeshia taking 2000 years to reincarnate: Because of their shorter life spans, humans reincarnate much faster. Only species with long life spans take a long amount of time to reincarnate. Even after gaining mixed demon blood, Kanon reincarnated multiple times in 2000 years.
Yzak's authority: Let's not forget the most glaring one being Yzak's passive authority dipping for some reason. For no reason at all, his source was harmed without any explanation like the authority didn't exist at all not to leave out the fact that for some reason his power level dropped for some reason. The same Yzak that no sold Evansmana's hidden art that stocks up the power of attacks it has cut and Lay had absorbed multiple attacks from Yzak himself, not any ordinary attack for that matter but specifically the "world severing claws" and this was combined with Eife's authority that is his natural opposite and we've seen the way that f*cks people over but he didn't give a damn. Even after Arcana negated his power as a chief god, Yzak is still an inviolable water and he got decapitated by a flipping nobody.
Shu was just pushing for everyone to reincarnate. Misha could've literally just used her authority to keep recreating her source and heal same for Arcana instead they opted to just not do that. Bez and Yzak not regenerating despite being Gods (possible HGRN for Graham's nothingness). Do I also have to count how Misa was stupidly using Zinnia's eyes just for defensive purposes yet even when she could've saved everyone by ******* banishing Vlad into eternal darkness she didn't?
Shu isn't proven wrong you just can't accept that there are things which Venuzdonoa can't destroy or there are some characters who can resists that.
Author Words > your headcanons or believes
Not everything needs to be spoon fed.
If you were calm down and reason a bit you'd see how wrong you are and how some of Shu's takes are wrong as well. Duelniga, Zinnia are characters who have reached the abyss. Duelniga is the Chief God whose world is at the abyss itself and Zinnia surpasses her. Chaos itself too is at the abyss and Venuzdonoa one sidedly destroyed its logic. Zinnia who reached the abyss, the literal pinnacle of magic still had his power distorted by the chaotic eyes. None of the things you said points towards anyone resisting Venuzdonoa. Of course there are things it can't destroy, Graham literally exists after all but fact remains that Venuzdonoa was put against powers that were at the abyss and was still effective, it was just in the hands of a poor user compared to its OG holder.
AUthor's word were disproved by the author itself. Tell me when you find the first silver sea a LoD destroyed to prove Shu's words correct then cause my reasoning from what was shown has a logical basis over your agenda
AUthor's word were disproved by the author itself. Tell me when you find the first silver sea a LoD destroyed to prove Shu's words correct then cause my reasoning from what was shown has a logical basis over your agenda
Me and Kuma already discussed that and ruled it as it's a joke so you are at this point can't distinguish between joke and real arguments that's all. As usual
Some points I do agree regarding Shu not making sense but whatever if I find any free time I'll address other things which you are just pushing your one sided views
Send the scan for her being inexperienced. Her fight against Kostoria and Magic Bullet inhabitants shows different from what you people are claiming not to mention it's own passives which are active and one which killed Kostoria in Volume 12 when she tried to make it submit.
She had no significant showing in the magic bullet world arc. She's a better user than Kostoria doesn't mean she's an excellent user nor does it mean she's as good as Anos.
I already pointed out that the author makes it clear that other Authorities can counter Venozdonoa’s powers if they’ve reached the Abyss. Either you people are in disbelief, or you’re trolling by not looking at what the series and author have pointed out.
He never did. He made an assumption of what could happen before the story progressed this far and now that it's complete we know that take is wrong. An authority at the abyss (Duelniga and Chaos) were unilaterally destroyed by Venuzdonoa when Sasha knew what she was doing. You keep going on about belief but that is simply an opinion. There's no need for belief when facts are presented and the facts point to Venuzdonoa unilaterally destroying powers at the abyss.
She didn't put up a fight. Her power was unilaterally beaten, chaos was being negated then she used her trump card on Aisha herself and for some reason, they stood still while she planted a chaos bullet directly in her source.
Anos himself couldn’t one shot Vlad with Chaotic Eyes who had reached the Abyss World. Really, can we stop with the it was Anos, he should somehow be able to one shot a character who should be superior to Vlad Yeah, yeah, another case of PIS for you people—because you can either logically explain that, or accept what the author and the series have established regarding the Abyss layer.
He never used it on Vlad for God's sake. He used it on the 0th hidden art of Evansmana. Do you even understand how badly you're contradicting yourself? Eizel who isn't even on Noah, Amur nor Zinnia's level supposed wasn't affected by the chaotic eyes yet the chaotic eyes could distort Zinnia's everlasting darkness?
It's not something unbelievable, it's pure PIS. Certain things happened for the sake of advancing the plot. Shu said himself that he was pushing the theme for the finale to be reincarnation
Well, basically, it uses his shadow magic and chaos, I think. The only thing I can say for sure is that Venozdonoa is the result of the Chaotic Eyes and Abernyru’s power merging. Also, the shadow works like Noah’s signature magic. But yes, it was created by Anos, not Noah. I think it has all of them combined together.
Both of those takes are wrong. Just like how Anos created EGA with no memories, he created something similar to his magic as Noah. Chaotic eyes and Eyes of Apocalypse merging literally weakened the two to create the eyes of destruction. It can't be all combined cause Anos only got his shadow magic back by regaining Noah's body. Venuzdonoa is just something similar to Noah's shadow magic that uses the Goddess of Destruction's authority as a seal but while shadow magic breaks, distorts and goes against order, Venuzdonoa destroys logic
After checking the chapter it's unknown but still even if you say he used against Evansmana attack isn't that already ridiculous? He couldn't destroy it and needed pull it out with his own hands?
He didn't try to destroy it. He stopped it's power to unilaterally destroy the Lion of Destruction then pulled it out.
"Spirit God Human Sword, Zeroth Secret Art—"
A hush fell over the area.
"Lion's Annihilation. " It was a blade meant to destroy the Lions of Destruction, a single strike that fully utilized the very reason for the Spirit God Human Sword's existence.
A crisscrossing flash of a white-rainbow sword directly slashed at my source, without a word. It allowed neither defense nor evasion, simply severing the very fate of the Lions of Destruction of Arzenon. The result was the annihilation of that source.
I imagine the reason for them taking 2000 years to reincarnate was due to temporarily breaking order to reincarnate, since Anos did mention back in v16 that it's inefficient and would have them suspended in a state between post reincarnation death and true death(Eleneor and Misa's case is still questionable though), that's why Anos suggested to opt for interworld teleportation instead but alas, they had to use those mini davuels for something. So they were basically suffering in perpetual agony until Militia's limited order circulated throughout the sea by becoming the Abyss World and reincarnated them. That's what I like to think at least, otherwise these is just a forced mess.
Didn't that Mechanical God use Eife's authority to stir something in Evezeino's Abyss and cause a Vortex? If so then it's definitely one of the hints for Vortex's origin and Hyfolia's potential Abyss formation.
Honestly, Vortex was hyped up so much that it felt like it was the main crisis the series. Until we have the same repetitive resolution of recreating the entire world. It's not bad if you want to keep the soul of the series up, but we've literally been fed with the same solution for volumes 10, 11, 14, and 15. And v16 comes building up the mystery of the Vortex, even having a full out expedition to get a clue of it, it's potential threat, and all--everything to end the exact same way as before. Like come on, just recreate the entire Silver Sea at this point.
Didn't that Mechanical God use Eife's authority to stir something in Evezeino's Abyss and cause a Vortex? If so then it's definitely one of the hints for Vortex's origin and Hyfolia's potential Abyss formation.
Can you share the scan? I don’t know if MGnF characters even qualify for ND let alone TD because of the changes in the nonduality page. It needs to be a negation rather than an opposition. A logical negation, if you will.
Like Light and Not-Light rather than Light and Darkness.
Can you share the scan? I don’t know if MGnF characters even qualify for ND let alone TD because of the changes in the nonduality page. It needs to be a negation rather than an opposition. A logical negation, if you will.
Like Light and Not-Light rather than Light and Darkness.
Yes. Take a look at the nonduality page (it’s a mess to the point that other users want to remake it).
Skimming through the thread, I don’t know if it qualifies considering it uses the old ND page as reference. The thread argues hot-air and cold-air as a duality, but it needs to be hot-air and not hot-air. A negation rather than an opposition as I’ve already mentioned.
Two contrasting forces can be present at the same time in reality but not those which are in negation. Which is what is shown to happen with the sister goddess.
Which makes me believe they do still qualify.
I am sure there's more context with arcana order in vol 10 act 2 which can add up more things on this matter.
Yes. Take a look at the nonduality page (it’s a mess to the point that other users want to remake it).
Skimming through the thread, I don’t know if it qualifies considering it uses the old ND page as reference. The thread argues hot-air and cold-air as a duality, but it needs to be hot-air and not hot-air. A negation rather than an opposition as I’ve already mentioned.
Nah. Ice and Fire are an opposition, it’s not a logical negation.
You should think of it like this: Ice and Fire being two entities that are opposite of each other, while Ice and Not-Ice is the same entity (ice) but with it’s negation (not-ice) rather than another entity.
Nah. Ice and Fire are an opposition, it’s not a logical negation.
You should think of it like this: Ice and Fire being two entities that are opposite of each other, while Ice and Not-Ice is the same entity (ice) but with it’s negation rather than another entity.
X and Y part yes. Not sure about that if simultaneously being something entirely different as Z. But IIRC X and Y are "part fo the same coin" / when X exist, Y doesn't.
Lay isn't even a bum and why bring him into this? Sasha's usage of Venuz is pe=oor compared to it's creator and that's a fact and yes, Venuzdonor negged every single one of Duelniga's attacks Sasha used it on.
What rules exactly got destroyed? We were only given a general statement of destroyig the logic of chaos but what did it do specifically? That we were not told. Venuzdonoa can passively erode order but what specific thing it does is still up to it's user. Despite destroying the logic of Evansmana being unable to harm holy beings where we are told Venuzdonoa was eroding the order of that place, it did not destroy Jerga, a being made of that very same order it was eroding.
Amped by chaos? That was no amp. The normal chaotic red meteor magic bullets are already chaos she's controlling normally. Duelniga has one specific move that she can use to one shot people just like how several characters have Great Deep Sea Magic that is their trump card. Aisha never used Venuzdonoa to negate that specific attack cause she's a bum.
Yeah, I agree with this take. Let me reword it: Venozdonoa, the magic it holds, is still on par with the Abyssal Layer—nothing beyond that. I agree that it can counter Chaotic Power, but I don’t agree with it being superior to Duelniga. At best, they’re on the same level in terms of power. Venozdonoa might be more hax, but it isn’t superior.
For example, it would be similar to Graham countering Venozdonoa with his scythe. It’s logical that he mixed some formula with the Frenzy God to create the scythe. Since he was a Mechanical God, it makes sense that he should be able to do that, which also explains why it could contend with Venozdonoa. After all, Mechanical depth was comparable to the Abyssal World Layer.
But when you look at Frenzy God’s feats alone, he got cooked by Celis. Sure, it was Celis’s strongest lightning magic, but still—you should understand that it’s not comparable to Venozdonoa in any way. Yet when Graham used it, he was not only able to put up a fight, but the Frenzy God’s power also managed to resist Venozdonoa’s regeneration-negating abilities. Meanwhile, Celis just one-shotted Frenzy God with a single strike.
Graham drew magic circles with both hands. The handles of the scythe appeared to his left and right, which he connected to form the spinning Divine Scythe of Disorder that should have been destroyed by the Abolisher of Reason.
Making up excuses? Name one character Sasha has destroyed with Venuzdonoa. Even in the world of magic bullets, all she did was destroy Odus's order that makes any attacks that aren't magic bullets ineffective and the captains got wasted by Aeges.
In volume 12, it's said Sasha was a better user of the sword than Kostoria, that alone proves there is such a thing as being better/knowing how to use the weapon. By sheer feats and showings, Anos is a far better user and it's not even close. For one, Sasha stupidly opts for close combat when she can nuke from any distance away.
If we take your argument that Sasha wasn’t destroying anyone, only stopping the explosion that was about to happen in the Magic Bullet World, then you’re ignoring the fact that Sasha didn’t do the same thing in the recent volume—even though she should have been able to with Venozdonoa.
To call someone a non believer indicates you're an agenda pusher. If I were to borrow Sasha's words from volume 2, I don't need to believe cause I already know. There is a difference. You say small inconsistency but it isn't small at all.
Eleonore taking 2000 years to reincarnate: In volume 3 she says she reincarnates immediately after she dies because she is magic
Misa Reincarnating at all: It was a big plot point of both volumes 2 & 4 that spirits don't reincarnate and resurrect immediately even if they are destroyed as long as their rumors persist. That's 3 volumes of info contradicted.
Zeshia taking 2000 years to reincarnate: Because of their shorter life spans, humans reincarnate much faster. Only species with long life spans take a long amount of time to reincarnate. Even after gaining mixed demon blood, Kanon reincarnated multiple times in 2000 years.
Yzak's authority: Let's not forget the most glaring one being Yzak's passive authority dipping for some reason. For no reason at all, his source was harmed without any explanation like the authority didn't exist at all not to leave out the fact that for some reason his power level dropped for some reason. The same Yzak that no sold Evansmana's hidden art that stocks up the power of attacks it has cut and Lay had absorbed multiple attacks from Yzak himself, not any ordinary attack for that matter but specifically the "world severing claws" and this was combined with Eife's authority that is his natural opposite and we've seen the way that f*cks people over but he didn't give a damn. Even after Arcana negated his power as a chief god, Yzak is still an inviolable water and he got decapitated by a flipping nobody.
You’re acting like this is the first time a weapon was introduced that can outperform its user. We already had Odus creating the filler magazine that made up for Muto’s missing power and turned Kostoria into a full LOD, even though Odus himself was weaker than Muto.
And if you go back and reread the chapter where Yzak’s head was cut off, it’s implied to be just durability negation, not raw AP. The same people who pulled that off got smoked by Elmed, who should actually be weaker than Yzak—lol.
Also, those were the forces with Vlad, so the weapon might have been tempered with special effects. This isn’t something that was introduced for the first time in Volume 17.
As for Yzak’s source passive, it was only ever damaged once, by Kostoria, and that was specifically stated to involve the True Eyes of LOD. That suggests it’s more of a power null effect than anything else. No one else in the entire volume damaged Yzak’s source or bypassed his passive. So take that however you like.
Shu was just pushing for everyone to reincarnate. Misha could've literally just used her authority to keep recreating her source and heal same for Arcana instead they opted to just not do that.
Even Noah, who was born in the deeper layers and a Misfit, couldn’t heal from Chaos in Volume 15. We were blatantly told that such power can’t be healed, so I don’t think Misha not healing here is out of the ordinary. When was the last time you saw Arcana use her authority to heal when her regeneration was negated? You’re acting like she can just heal herself with authority even when that very authority is being negated.
Graham already implied back in Volume 8 that he could negate Anos’s regeneration with his Nothingness. As for the Lion of Destruction’s claw, it already has feats in Volume 12 of destroying Gods and leaving the world’s order in a distorted state. That means the Gods destroyed by it can’t regenerate. So Yzak’s regeneration not coming in clutch against a fully incarnated LOD, like Kostoria, makes perfect sense.
We also see partial manifestations of the LOD having similar effects—for example, Bobanga negating source-healing abilities, and Yzak stating in Volume 13 that even Ordov couldn’t easily heal LOD wounds, and those weren’t even from a complete LOD. So these things aren’t just random inconsistencies—they’re consistent with established feats.
Do I also have to count how Misa was stupidly using Zinnia's eyes just for defensive purposes yet even when she could've saved everyone by ******* banishing Vlad into eternal darkness she didn't?
Misa having Zinnia’s eyes doesn’t automatically put her on the same level of power. Anos himself stated that the victor between him and Zinnia would be decided by who could pierce deeper with their Magic Eyes. That means there’s a skill gap that can’t simply be overcome. Let’s not forget Volume 4, where the fake Avos, a spirit created from the rumors of Anos, still couldn’t live up to his level. You’re basically asking for Misa to reach Zinnia’s level for no reason, and against a stronger opponent at that.
Not to mention, Evansmana might very well destroy her darkness—who knows? Unlike Zinnia, Misa’s eyes don’t come with the same depth of understanding. Unless you’re trying to argue that Misa can contend with Anos’s Chaotic Eyes in the same way Zinnia did, this claim doesn’t hold.
If you were calm down and reason a bit you'd see how wrong you are and how some of Shu's takes are wrong as well. Duelniga, Zinnia are characters who have reached the abyss. Duelniga is the Chief God whose world is at the abyss itself and Zinnia surpasses her. Chaos itself too is at the abyss and Venuzdonoa one sidedly destroyed its logic. Zinnia who reached the abyss, the literal pinnacle of magic still had his power distorted by the chaotic eyes. None of the things you said points towards anyone resisting Venuzdonoa. Of course there are things it can't destroy, Graham literally exists after all but fact remains that Venuzdonoa was put against powers that were at the abyss and was still effective, it was just in the hands of a poor user compared to its OG holder.
The Chaotic Eye only distorted his darkness; it didn’t overpower him. Not to mention, Zinnia was already weakened—on the verge of death, blind, and holding the Vortex at the same time. You’re making it sound like Anos stomped Zinnia with his Chaotic Eyes, when in reality Anos himself admitted that the outcome would depend on the depth of their Magic Eyes. He didn’t claim victory outright like he did against Eques. There’s nothing to indicate that the Chaotic Eyes are superior to Agido or Zinnia. Even in the aftermath, only Zinnia’s seat was destroyed, while the rest of the room remained intact because of Zinnia's eyes absorbing all the destruction caused by Anos eyes.
Also, Venozdonoa only destroyed Graham’s scythe after Graham had already lost and been sealed inside Anos’s source. That was one of the few things Venozdonoa couldn’t permanently put down until that point. It’s similar to the Duelniga case: Sasha stabbed the sword into Duelniga’s source, and the very next instant after the explosion, she was fine. That’s where UES comes into play.
As I said before, Venozdonoa’s magic is still Abyssal Layer at best—there’s nothing to suggest it’s superior to Agido or even Anos’s Seventh Step. We have feats like Amur catching the Seventh Step’s power with Grasping Hands, which had been deepened, while Anos couldn’t use the same ability to stop Muto’s power earlier. See where I’m going? Duelniga’s magic is on the same deep level as Venozdonoa’s. It’s logical to think she resisted Venozdonoa’s powers when Sasha stabbed her—just like how a deepened Grasping Hands could catch Agido-level power when before it couldn’t even hold back Muto’s.
Since Duelniga is an Abyssal Layer Goddess, she naturally possesses a depth of power comparable to Venozdonoa.
She had no significant showing in the magic bullet world arc. She's a better user than Kostoria doesn't mean she's an excellent user nor does it mean she's as good as Anos.
He never did. He made an assumption of what could happen before the story progressed this far and now that it's complete we know that take is wrong. An authority at the abyss (Duelniga and Chaos) were unilaterally destroyed by Venuzdonoa when Sasha knew what she was doing. You keep going on about belief but that is simply an opinion. There's no need for belief when facts are presented and the facts point to Venuzdonoa unilaterally destroying powers at the abyss.
I never said it didn't destroyed powers at the abyss did I? My claim was regarding the authority amped by Abyssal Layer. Graham's scythe is an example Venozdonoa powers can be countered with other authority.
She didn't put up a fight. Her power was unilaterally beaten, chaos was being negated then she used her trump card on Aisha herself and for some reason, they stood still while she planted a chaos bullet directly in her source.
Like I already have example where she could have stopped the explosion or healed like in Volume 14 or 12. But she didn't. Because it's the power of Goddess from Abyssal Layer
He never used it on Vlad for God's sake. He used it on the 0th hidden art of Evansmana. Do you even understand how badly you're contradicting yourself? Eizel who isn't even on Noah, Amur nor Zinnia's level supposed wasn't affected by the chaotic eyes yet the chaotic eyes could distort Zinnia's everlasting darkness?
I’ll drop the “he was attacking Vlad” part, but I don’t agree with the argument that Vlad wasn’t on the same level as Zinnia, Amur, or Noah and therefore couldn’t resist the Chaotic Eyes. While I wouldn’t exactly call it resistance, we do know that in Volume 13 the Mechanical God was still able to move while under the influence of the Chaotic Eyes. It wasn’t erased immediately and took some time before it was completely destroyed. That shows there’s at least some credibility to the idea that Anos’s Chaotic Eyes can’t erase Abyssal Layer beings instantly or easily.
I looked at the Whirlpool and my left eye turned a dark purple, and a dark cross appeared in its depths.
- …?!
There was silence all around.
The "whirlpool", a phenomenon that could not be influenced, calmed down, but did not stop spinning. The "Magic Eyes of Chaotic Destruction" destroyed this order.
- In other words, I just need to defeat you in thirty seconds, save Eife, and stop the predatory behavior of the world of the disastrous abyss.
At the moment I said those words, I was already right in front of Elmid and swung down the sword of two laws. The strike of the dark sword cut the body of the mechanical god in a cross shape.
- Gha?!..
The four parts of the body, having become semi-liquid, tried to unite, but were again cut apart. Everything was destroyed - both this law itself and its body.
I stuck my hand into the cut on the body of the mechanical god.
- Ghee!..
- Take my hand, Eife. You didn't just let yourself be captured without a plan.
Something clearly took me by the hand.
And as soon as I felt it, I pulled my hand back with force, pulling out the Blessing Lady Eife, who was enveloped in rainbow light, from the cut. Having protected only her base with her powers, she was waiting to be rescued from such a hopeless situation.
- You still don't understand anything? Even if you save Eife now, the young Holy King is already at his limit.
The world of the disastrous abyss trembled even more violently.
Elmid was right. Lebrahard's Labor Angelam was about to reach its limit. If Iwezeino broke through, he would instantly eat Hyfolia whole.
“Sovereign Anos…” said the Blessing Lady Eife, healing Leowulf with the light of blessing. “Under the influence of your magical eyes… I am left without order… At this rate, Hyfolia…”
- You try it. If I turn off the magic eyes, his body will recover.
"Either way, you won't be able to stop it," Elmid said as he fell to the bottom. "Choose, Demon Lord: defeat me at the cost of sacrificing the world of sacred swords, or fight me without the power of your magical eyes."
- ...Hm, - heading towards him as he fell, I raised the sword of two laws. - Spare me your stupid suggestions, Hermit Elmid.
While still keeping the "Magic Eyes of Chaotic Destruction" active, I launched several dark sword flashes at him, further cutting down the mechanical god and erasing his mercury.
- It seems you really want to see Ivezeino eat Hyfolia.
“…Bastard… When did you…” Elmid said, as if he had guessed my intentions.
The flashes of the sword of two laws cut not only his body, but also the bottom of the disastrous abyss. I smiled boldly at the mechanical god, who was now on the verge of death.
"You said that I was very difficult to understand. You asked, 'Why did I appear before you, having cast aside my power?'" My gaze with a dark cross pierced the mechanical god, and his body began to turn into pitch-black ash. "I have no idea who you are, but I suppose that even if the past me cast aside some of his powers, nothing much has changed.
Although Eife and Leowulf looked at the crumbling mechanical god, their gaze was fixed on the bottom of the abyss.
The "Woeful Abyss of Thirst" was cut so deep that even the bottom was not visible.
“Sovereign Anos… what are you doing?” asked Eife.
- The invisible "Whirlpool" created by the mechanical god affects thirst and drives the world of the calamitous abyss crazy. Therefore, if this "Whirlpool" is removed, the world will return to normal.
It's not something unbelievable, it's pure PIS. Certain things happened for the sake of advancing the plot. Shu said himself that he was pushing the theme for the finale to be reincarnation
Both of those takes are wrong. Just like how Anos created EGA with no memories, he created something similar to his magic as Noah. Chaotic eyes and Eyes of Apocalypse merging literally weakened the two to create the eyes of destruction. It can't be all combined cause Anos only got his shadow magic back by regaining Noah's body. Venuzdonoa is just something similar to Noah's shadow magic that uses the Goddess of Destruction's authority as a seal but while shadow magic breaks, distorts and goes against order, Venuzdonoa destroys logic
I mean we never did? Even in vs threads we established it doesn't passively murk the enemy. The only thing truly passive about it is Logic and order erosion.
Yeah, I agree with this take. Let me reword it: Venozdonoa, the magic it holds, is still on par with the Abyssal Layer—nothing beyond that. I agree that it can counter Chaotic Power, but I don’t agree with it being superior to Duelniga. At best, they’re on the same level in terms of power. Venozdonoa might be more hax, but it isn’t superior.
Why do I feel like you are suddenly making a 180? I was never interested in arguing the power dynamic between the two nor was I interested in which is more haxed, I simply disagreed with your take of Duelniga's authority being able to counter it, Meitilen being superior to it if she reaches the abyss. Looking at the facts presented, both of those takes are objectively wrong.
For example, it would be similar to Graham countering Venozdonoa with his scythe. It’s logical that he mixed some formula with the Frenzy God to create the scythe. Since he was a Mechanical God, it makes sense that he should be able to do that, which also explains why it could contend with Venozdonoa. After all, Mechanical depth was comparable to the Abyssal World Layer.
Now you would be spitting facts here if not for some major oversights on your end. Yes Graham could've done something with the scythe just as Anos created EGA with no past memories however, you're missing two things. The first being that Anos and Graham where blasting both divine armaments with the Mauve eyes attempting to completely seal their power the second be that Bephengzdogma only destroyed Venuzdonor when Anos was no longer holding it and we know the sword can't show its true power outside the wielder's hands.
But when you look at Frenzy God’s feats alone, he got cooked by Celis. Sure, it was Celis’s strongest lightning magic, but still—you should understand that it’s not comparable to Venozdonoa in any way. Yet when Graham used it, he was not only able to put up a fight, but the Frenzy God’s power also managed to resist Venozdonoa’s regeneration-negating abilities. Meanwhile, Celis just one-shotted Frenzy God with a single strike.
It's not that it resisted it's regen neg. There are ways to bypass hax without resisting it. Just as Graham escapes from Venuzdonor by further becoming nothing, the scythe distorts reality to make it one where it isn't destroyed. I don't ever recall Anos directly trying to use Venuzdonor to stop the scythe from repairing itself, both weapons would have resistance to the other's power otherwise and then we'll have a chain of continuous layering cause they can still affect the other.
In other matters, this is where I have a bone to pick with you. Your premise is that authorities that have reached the abyss are comparable to or can nullify Venuzdonor but here you say that the Mechanical world is comparable to the abyss not on the same level as the abyss. I also don't agree with it being comparable either but that's besides the point. By using abilities that have not reached the abyss supporting evidence you are contradicting yourself.
If we take your argument that Sasha wasn’t destroying anyone, only stopping the explosion that was about to happen in the Magic Bullet World, then you’re ignoring the fact that Sasha didn’t do the same thing in the recent volume—even though she should have been able to with Venozdonoa.
There are words for that be it PIS, plot armor or the like, it's simply a matter of convenience for the sake of progressing the plot. Why didn't Anos just breeze through everything with the MEoCD or just have Sasha summon Venuz before every confrontation? That's what you're point is akin to. Speaking of Venuz turning Duelniga's attack back on her and Sasha being an objectively poor user by sheer feats compared to Anos, did Anos have to continuously destroy logic to send Jerga's millions of attacks back at him or did he just send back one and frget about the rest? Why doesn't Sasha just make use of the swords long range abilities, why must she go for cqc? All of this is simply for plot convenience. Do I think Sasha is some idiot that doesn't know how to use the sword? No but she is written to not use it's other powers for the sake of progression. The statement "Kostoria as the Lion of Destruction has more physical strength but Sasha better utilizes the sword of reason destruction" shows she's a good wielder but at the same time implies the swords showings are limited to the wielders whims.
Speaking on the same thing. Delzgade and Venuzdonor on their own chose to run Graham's fade without being summoned and despite not being in Anos hands, the sword targeted and destroyed Aganzon of it's own volition but we have not seen it do the same again, does this then invalidate this specific showing in volume 8?
You’re acting like this is the first time a weapon was introduced that can outperform its user. We already had Odus creating the filler magazine that made up for Muto’s missing power and turned Kostoria into a full LOD, even though Odus himself was weaker than Muto.
That's the power of the filler magazine though. It's ability specifically makes up/compensates for missing power. It's not exactly a stat amp. Yes it's not the first time that there's a weapon that can outperform it's user but Gagali is a nobody. Odus authority cannot make him as strong as Mutoh cause what the magazine does is compensate for the missing power. I doubt Odus was weakened at all neither was he possibly stronger than Mutoh so there's nothing to compensate. That's just the magazine's hax so it's useless if you have no great missing power to speak of.
And if you go back and reread the chapter where Yzak’s head was cut off, it’s implied to be just durability negation, not raw AP. The same people who pulled that off got smoked by Elmed, who should actually be weaker than Yzak—lol.
Literally just read it and neither hax nor specifically dura neg were implied. My point exactly, they are nobodies that Yzak should've nuked which takes us back to my point of it being for the sake of the plot
Also, those were the forces with Vlad, so the weapon might have been tempered with special effects. This isn’t something that was introduced for the first time in Volume 17.
As for Yzak’s source passive, it was only ever damaged once, by Kostoria, and that was specifically stated to involve the True Eyes of LOD. That suggests it’s more of a power null effect than anything else. No one else in the entire volume damaged Yzak’s source or bypassed his passive. So take that however you like.
That one time it self is glaringly obvious and objectively stupid. True eyes had nothing to do with it. All the eyes do is being more cracked than normal magic eyes, cracked info analysis and power mimicry. The final attack she used was basically still her parasol+the claw of the lion of destruction nothing more. Stop giving powers they don't have not to mention that same authority could stop what? the 5th or 6th step of GN. The eyes are not nullifying that.
Even Noah, who was born in the deeper layers and a Misfit, couldn’t heal from Chaos in Volume 15. We were blatantly told that such power can’t be healed, so I don’t think Misha not healing here is out of the ordinary. When was the last time you saw Arcana use her authority to heal when her regeneration was negated? You’re acting like she can just heal herself with authority even when that very authority is being negated.
Because what Chaos does is absorb something and incorporate it into itself and the absorption continues even if you stop touching it. There's nothing to heal and there's multiple ways of bypassing regen and regen neg. Both of these scenarios aren't even the same cause all Duelniga did was blow a whole in Misha's torso. As for Arcana, her authority wasn't being negated and even if it was, she should've still had Nutra Du Hiana's restoration power.
Graham already implied back in Volume 8 that he could negate Anos’s regeneration with his Nothingness. As for the Lion of Destruction’s claw, it already has feats in Volume 12 of destroying Gods and leaving the world’s order in a distorted state. That means the Gods destroyed by it can’t regenerate. So Yzak’s regeneration not coming in clutch against a fully incarnated LOD, like Kostoria, makes perfect sense.
We also see partial manifestations of the LOD having similar effects—for example, Bobanga negating source-healing abilities, and Yzak stating in Volume 13 that even Ordov couldn’t easily heal LOD wounds, and those weren’t even from a complete LOD. So these things aren’t just random inconsistencies—they’re consistent with established feats.
Graham says he is the same as Anos cause he would come back from nothingness and Anos will always come back from destruction. The point of trying not to destroy Anos was that there was no way to destroy him that's why he was trying to make him reincarnate through Gigerica. You arenow contradicting that narrative by saying Graham can negate that. What Graham expected was that he would bring Anos closer to nothingness and Anos would bring him to destruction for eternity thus they would seal each other. He then attempted to disrupt Anos destruction with the scythe so that he can gain the upper hand, this is circumvention not negation.
Yeah, the claws neg regen but I recall you and I having this convo b4 and you were skeptical of it being HGRN (or was this for EGA?) That still leaves he glaring problem of why his authority wasn't active
Misa having Zinnia’s eyes doesn’t automatically put her on the same level of power. Anos himself stated that the victor between him and Zinnia would be decided by who could pierce deeper with their Magic Eyes. That means there’s a skill gap that can’t simply be overcome. Let’s not forget Volume 4, where the fake Avos, a spirit created from the rumors of Anos, still couldn’t live up to his level. You’re basically asking for Misa to reach Zinnia’s level for no reason, and against a stronger opponent at that.
Because the rumors are what people thought were Anos limits, here on the other hand is the rumor of basically the sovereign in the silver sea. It's basically the same thing in fire force where they were skeptical of how Benimaru's fight with his doppelganger will go and Beni one shot them because in the end he was stronger than their perception of him. Here though, the common perception is that Zinnia is the strongest individual in the entire sea. Also if you looked back, I never mentioned a power issue, I mentioned a writing issue of why Misa didn't just trap Vlad within the darkness like Zinnia did to Anos but was written to stupidly use it defensively so that she, balzarondo and Lay could conveniently die and join the others to reincarnate.
The reason it came down to a skill gap between Anos and Zinnia was because the two are almost equal power wise, here a skill gap doesn't apply cause Zinnia murks Eizel. Davuel also destroyed the order constraining her range on rumors so I can easily take a page out of your book and argue it also destroyed any order limiting its power but once again, the problem was never a power issue but one of writing.
Not to mention, Evansmana might very well destroy her darkness—who knows? Unlike Zinnia, Misa’s eyes don’t come with the same depth of understanding. Unless you’re trying to argue that Misa can contend with Anos’s Chaotic Eyes in the same way Zinnia did, this claim doesn’t hold.
Misa is heavily carried by the rumors of Anos magic technique and knowledge a genius intelligence that continues to showcase itself in the deepest parts of the sea. Need I remind you she completely understood, deciphered delzgade's formula and obtained Venuzdonor the correct way. She can still copy the spells of deeper layers as easily as Anos can but funny thing is that in spite of all that she doesn't nned depth of understanding as the eyes already come with that
The Chaotic Eye only distorted his darkness; it didn’t overpower him. Not to mention, Zinnia was already weakened—on the verge of death, blind, and holding the Vortex at the same time. You’re making it sound like Anos stomped Zinnia with his Chaotic Eyes, when in reality Anos himself admitted that the outcome would depend on the depth of their Magic Eyes. He didn’t claim victory outright like he did against Eques. There’s nothing to indicate that the Chaotic Eyes are superior to Agido or Zinnia. Even in the aftermath, only Zinnia’s seat was destroyed, while the rest of the room remained intact because of Zinnia's eyes absorbing all the destruction caused by Anos eyes.
Why do you always take this back to a discussion on power? I've never once argued about power and you're just repeating what I said in that Anos used the CE to distort the darkness. Quote where I said he stomped Zinnia.
In case you didn't notice, the entire silver sea arc veered off from many characters having OP hax to being reduced to AP merchants. All those statements are in reference to power, it doesn't mean the hax wouldn't work.
I never said they were superior, my point was it being pit against something that had reached the abyss. Be it Duelniga, Zinnia and then Agido. Agido is the pinnacle of all magic with characters like Zinnia and Duelniga having reached the abyss. You're saying reaching the abyss is enough to negate powers similar to venuz or the chaotic eyes but I'm showing you it is not.
Also, Venozdonoa only destroyed Graham’s scythe after Graham had already lost and been sealed inside Anos’s source. That was one of the few things Venozdonoa couldn’t permanently put down until that point.
It’s similar to the Duelniga case: Sasha stabbed the sword into Duelniga’s source, and the very next instant after the explosion, she was fine. That’s where UES comes into play.
Please stop taking this back to a discussion about power do not make invoke the power of the n word subconsciously on site because I almost did. This was never the point I was contending with
We have feats like Amur catching the Seventh Step’s power with Grasping Hands, which had been deepened, while Anos couldn’t use the same ability to stop Muto’s power earlier.
Specifically leaving out the part that it wasn't a normal <Rayon> but one that had been deepened by Noah's 2nd greatest deepening magic? When did Anos regain the ability to use Noah's spells? Right, it's after the magic bullet world arc.
See where I’m going? Duelniga’s magic is on the same deep level as Venozdonoa’s. It’s logical to think she resisted Venozdonoa’s powers when Sasha stabbed her—just like how a deepened Grasping Hands could catch Agido-level power when before it couldn’t even hold back Muto’s.
This makes no sense whatsoever. Like what is the correlation, what logical basis is there to deduce this? It's not the first time Venuzdonor is stabbing or murking something without completely murking it without the involved party resisting it. Ivis, Melheis, Militia, Eleonore (I think), Kostoria (Anos wasn't even in control of it here). Besides, Sasha had just been fused with Misha and Misha was seeing into Duelniga's heart most likely didn't plan on destroying her. What's to say Sasha didn't plan on destroying her with that attack over just weakening her?
I never said it didn't destroyed powers at the abyss did I? My claim was regarding the authority amped by Abyssal Layer. Graham's scythe is an example Venozdonoa powers can be countered with other authority.
Except it didn't counter it and Graham and mechanical world are not at the abyssal layer. There's a difference between circumventing, resisting and countering
I’ll drop the “he was attacking Vlad” part, but I don’t agree with the argument that Vlad wasn’t on the same level as Zinnia, Amur, or Noah and therefore couldn’t resist the Chaotic Eyes. While I wouldn’t exactly call it resistance, we do know that in Volume 13 the Mechanical God was still able to move while under the influence of the Chaotic Eyes. It wasn’t erased immediately and took some time before it was completely destroyed. That shows there’s at least some credibility to the idea that Anos’s Chaotic Eyes can’t erase Abyssal Layer beings instantly or easily.
Bro you're breaking my heart. Vlad ain't on their level, he's not even close to demon king level. Anos stomped his ass with a single Dagdala without deepening it. Heath got stomped by a deepened first step if GN. None of these people resisted the chaotic eyes either. Anos was trying to cut off the bottom of Evezeino and the Mechanical God was getting murked passively. The power wasn't used directly on it so he was never under it's influence. You are also indirectly saying a fodder mechanical god is on the level of abyssal layer inhabitants.
I looked at the Whirlpool and my left eye turned a dark purple, and a dark cross appeared in its depths.
- …?!
There was silence all around.
The "whirlpool", a phenomenon that could not be influenced, calmed down, but did not stop spinning. The "Magic Eyes of Chaotic Destruction" destroyed this order.
- In other words, I just need to defeat you in thirty seconds, save Eife, and stop the predatory behavior of the world of the disastrous abyss.
At the moment I said those words, I was already right in front of Elmid and swung down the sword of two laws. The strike of the dark sword cut the body of the mechanical god in a cross shape.
- Gha?!..
The four parts of the body, having become semi-liquid, tried to unite, but were again cut apart. Everything was destroyed - both this law itself and its body.
I stuck my hand into the cut on the body of the mechanical god.
- Ghee!..
- Take my hand, Eife. You didn't just let yourself be captured without a plan.
Something clearly took me by the hand.
And as soon as I felt it, I pulled my hand back with force, pulling out the Blessing Lady Eife, who was enveloped in rainbow light, from the cut. Having protected only her base with her powers, she was waiting to be rescued from such a hopeless situation.
- You still don't understand anything? Even if you save Eife now, the young Holy King is already at his limit.
The world of the disastrous abyss trembled even more violently.
Elmid was right. Lebrahard's Labor Angelam was about to reach its limit. If Iwezeino broke through, he would instantly eat Hyfolia whole.
“Sovereign Anos…” said the Blessing Lady Eife, healing Leowulf with the light of blessing. “Under the influence of your magical eyes… I am left without order… At this rate, Hyfolia…”
- You try it. If I turn off the magic eyes, his body will recover.
"Either way, you won't be able to stop it," Elmid said as he fell to the bottom. "Choose, Demon Lord: defeat me at the cost of sacrificing the world of sacred swords, or fight me without the power of your magical eyes."
- ...Hm, - heading towards him as he fell, I raised the sword of two laws. - Spare me your stupid suggestions, Hermit Elmid.
While still keeping the "Magic Eyes of Chaotic Destruction" active, I launched several dark sword flashes at him, further cutting down the mechanical god and erasing his mercury.
- It seems you really want to see Ivezeino eat Hyfolia.
“…Bastard… When did you…” Elmid said, as if he had guessed my intentions.
The flashes of the sword of two laws cut not only his body, but also the bottom of the disastrous abyss. I smiled boldly at the mechanical god, who was now on the verge of death.
"You said that I was very difficult to understand. You asked, 'Why did I appear before you, having cast aside my power?'" My gaze with a dark cross pierced the mechanical god, and his body began to turn into pitch-black ash. "I have no idea who you are, but I suppose that even if the past me cast aside some of his powers, nothing much has changed.
Although Eife and Leowulf looked at the crumbling mechanical god, their gaze was fixed on the bottom of the abyss.
The "Woeful Abyss of Thirst" was cut so deep that even the bottom was not visible.
“Sovereign Anos… what are you doing?” asked Eife.
- The invisible "Whirlpool" created by the mechanical god affects thirst and drives the world of the calamitous abyss crazy. Therefore, if this "Whirlpool" is removed, the world will return to normal.
Emphasis initially on "look at the whirlpool" not the mechanical God and once he looked at the God it was getting erased. Cinematic timing not making it instant doesn't equal even limited resistance
Comparable sure, agree to disagree but the sword is still superior. no matter how slight it is. If they were equal we should have seen something akin to the clash between Chaotic eyes and eyes of everlasting darkness but her ability was unilaterally overcome.
Just consider the parts I don’t address or argue as “Agree to Disagree.” I don’t think you will change your POV on those, and the same goes for me. Btw I do agree with some your points like Graham's nothingness. I re read the chapter and you are right it didn't say anything about negating regeneration. I was mistaken.
Regarding Misa’s rumors, she copied Evansmana, but its power was still weaker than the original. She needed a long time just to decipher the Delsgade formula. You’re pushing her to be on Zinnia’s level with rumors alone, but I clearly don’t agree with your logic that just because it’s a rumor it should automatically be on par with the original. I also never claimed you were arguing about power issues — I’m simply explaining why it’s not a narrative issue.
Regarding Anos vs. Zinnia, your replies did imply to me that you were arguing Zinnia’s eyes are weaker.
The Mechanical God clearly mentioned that if Anos stopped using his eyes, it would regenerate back, so the effects would be null. Also, he later slashed the God and then it was erased. This definitely doesn’t fall under the “cinematic timing” excuse.
The Mechanical World did have depth comparable to the Abyssal World, as confirmed by Vol. 16 and 17. The First Righteous Emperor Domel was indeed a threat — even Amur himself acknowledged that. I don’t recall it ever being stated that just because a world is destroyed, characters would lose their skills and intelligence. Graham creating the scythe clearly makes sense.
- Our world maintains a rivalry with the world of desires, but it cannot move forward. With only thirty percent of the "Mechanical Abyssal Reservoir", it will be difficult to reproduce clones of the bases and mechanical gods en masse.
Also, you didn’t understand the point I was trying to make with Rayon of Amur, and Anos. My point was that magic can be deepened to that extent. Your arguments about Amur using deepened magic and Anos not having Noah’s memory are irrelevant. The whole point is that Rayon’s magic, which normally couldn’t stand against Muto’s power, could be deepened to withstand Abyssal Magic. I was making the point that Abyssal-layer deepened magic contending with Venozdonoa isn’t out of the question, especially given other feats shown. I know you won’t agree, so I’ll leave it as “agree to disagree” from my end, even if you have counterarguments.
Aisha’s source was damaged by Chaos power, from what I see. Also, why wouldn’t an Authority that manipulates Chaos possess regeneration negation? Misha in Volume 14 already showed she couldn’t heal from wounds caused by the Magic Bullet World despite having enough time. I don’t agree with your argument that since she has healing abilities, she should automatically be able to heal from anything and everything. That’s how you sound, by the way. Heath also negated Holsefi World’s Chief God regeneration from what I see. And isn’t the whole Silver Sea battle itself dependent on either destroying the Chief Gods or keeping them alive depending on the victors? Shouldn’t that already imply HGRN for Silver Sea inhabitants, since their worlds have evolved?
As for Arcana, she did have the option of healing herself with the Shadow Orb but didn’t, because she wanted to maintain her Authority to kill Boyz — implying her abilities didn’t allow her to heal the world outside of the Shadow Orb. I don’t think everything needs to be spoon-fed with explicit statements like “this negates regeneration” or “this doesn’t.” Especially since another argument can be made that Boyz, possessing Quarter Agido, may have prevented Arcana’s Authority from working.
I already addressed the case of Kostoria bypassing Yzak’s Authority on Discord. If you don’t agree, then I’ll leave it as “agree to disagree.”
The Whip that Nobody used to sever Yzak’s head doesn’t just have mind manipulation hax. It literally healed two characters — even though the Mechanical God, created by Ottolu body, should have had regeneration of her own, and Yzak’s claw damage hadn’t healed. Yet that whip healed them. He was also rewriting Militia World’s laws, and if it weren’t for Eldmed and Naya stopping him, Militia World — which should currently be comparable to a Deep 12 World — would have been altered. So much for “the Nobody.”
The one who was standing before Yzak's eyes without him noticing was the Education God Gagari.
The whip he held was emitting an eerie light.
"Surgical Whip Mirazel."
The whip, swung at high speed, easily lopped off the Calamity in flesh Yzak's head.
With a slump, Yzak's torso collapsed from its knees and fell to the spot.
The Education God Gagari grabbed Yzak's head.
"Stand, you spineless fools."
Gagari struck Elgande and Carla with the Surgical Whip Mirazel. An eerie light burst, and the bodies of Elgande, which had been hit by the calamity claws, and Carla began to heal.
I'll preface by saying I don't disagree with all your takes. If you're talking about contending with Venuzdonoa power wise I agree there's a possibility by your claims sound like the weapon is completely useless against them even when counting hax.
Just in case you forgot, this debacle which baffled me stems from your firm belief that Meitilien reaching the abyss will allow her authority contend with or surpass Venuzdonoa, this is the one thing I wholeheartedly especially since she already had a quarter of agido- magic that had not only reached the abyss but surpassed it and became the pinnacle of magic. Meitilien had this and the authority was still shit. The causality breaking authority was still limited to perception (can't affect the causality of what she doesn't understand) and I don't see her affecting Venuzdonoa which even Kostoria could only analyze imperfectly with her LoD eyes.
Just consider the parts I don’t address or argue as “Agree to Disagree.” I don’t think you will change your POV on those, and the same goes for me. Btw I do agree with some your points like Graham's nothingness. I re read the chapter and you are right it didn't say anything about negating regeneration. I was mistaken.
I'm headstrong on certain things but you and I are chill not to mention it's not like I don't admit I'm wrong on things, there just has to be proof of what others are claiming before I acknowledge it.
Regarding Misa’s rumors, she copied Evansmana, but its power was still weaker than the original. She needed a long time just to decipher the Delsgade formula. You’re pushing her to be on Zinnia’s level with rumors alone, but I clearly don’t agree with your logic that just because it’s a rumor it should automatically be on par with the original. I also never claimed you were arguing about power issues — I’m simply explaining why it’s not a narrative issue.
She didn't need long to decipher it, it's rewriting it to obtain Venuzdonor that took time not to mention she obtained it perfectly unlike Kostoria even with the Lion's Copy Eyes. These eyes also couldn't completely comprehend Venuzdonoa. I'm not pushing her to be on Zinnia's level, I'm saying the intelligence she gains from her rumors is still enough to compete with and surpass deep sea inhabitants. Even if not on par, the abilities remain the same. She had no problem swallowing Eizel's attacks with darkness but it's completely stupid that she just didn't end the fight by sealing Eizel himself in darkness. Unlike with Anos's case, the rumors about Zinnia already make him the strongest in the silver sea such that all worlds that have gone outside as well as inviolable waters like the demon kings, Anos and even Eizel himself know and accept it. Even if she isn't as strong as Zinnia, the power of the eye is still above Eizel
Unless I'm mistaking I believe all I said amounts to "the chaotic eyes were able to distort Zinnia's darkness" unless saying "all Anos used it for was to distort the darkness" makes it sound like I'm imply Zinnia's eyes are weaker
The Mechanical God clearly mentioned that if Anos stopped using his eyes, it would regenerate back, so the effects would be null. Also, he later slashed the God and then it was erased. This definitely doesn’t fall under the “cinematic timing” excuse.
You're arguing the wrong thing. Anos wasn't specifically trying to erase the mechanical god with the eye. It's still cinematic timing to allow the character get some words off just like Rouche didn't get immediately erased when Melheis caught her with Beno Ievun in Vol 10. This isn't a feat of resistance, it's just not writing the erasure to happen in an instant
The Mechanical World did have depth comparable to the Abyssal World, as confirmed by Vol. 16 and 17. The First Righteous Emperor Domel was indeed a threat — even Amur himself acknowledged that. I don’t recall it ever being stated that just because a world is destroyed, characters would lose their skills and intelligence. Graham creating the scythe clearly makes sense.
I never said Graham lost his intelligence, I said he had no memories and I accepted just like Anos developed EGA through what one might call instinct or muscle memory, Graham might have incorporated certain deep laws into the scythe so I actually agreed with you there.
Also, you didn’t understand the point I was trying to make with Rayon of Amur, and Anos. My point was that magic can be deepened to that extent. Your arguments about Amur using deepened magic and Anos not having Noah’s memory are irrelevant. The whole point is that Rayon’s magic, which normally couldn’t stand against Muto’s power, could be deepened to withstand Abyssal Magic. I was making the point that Abyssal-layer deepened magic contending with Venozdonoa isn’t out of the question, especially given other feats shown. I know you won’t agree, so I’ll leave it as “agree to disagree” from my end, even if you have counterarguments.
It's not that I won't agree, I'm just mentally drawing a line at equating AP and hax, plus I don't see why this automatically means deepening abyssal layer magic makes it contend with the sword but agree to disagree.
Aisha’s source was damaged by Chaos power, from what I see. Also, why wouldn’t an Authority that manipulates Chaos possess regeneration negation? Misha in Volume 14 already showed she couldn’t heal from wounds caused by the Magic Bullet World despite having enough time.
I don’t agree with your argument that since she has healing abilities, she should automatically be able to heal from anything and everything. That’s how you sound, by the way. Heath also negated Holsefi World’s Chief God regeneration from what I see. And isn’t the whole Silver Sea battle itself dependent on either destroying the Chief Gods or keeping them alive depending on the victors? Shouldn’t that already imply HGRN for Silver Sea inhabitants, since their worlds have evolved?
Shouldn't recreating the source be different from conventional healing? You're right on the point for heath ig. So does this mean everyone is gonna get regen and invulnerability neg? Lets go!
As for Arcana, she did have the option of healing herself with the Shadow Orb but didn’t, because she wanted to maintain her Authority to kill Boyz — implying her abilities didn’t allow her to heal the world outside of the Shadow Orb. I don’t think everything needs to be spoon-fed with explicit statements like “this negates regeneration” or “this doesn’t.” Especially since another argument can be made that Boyz, possessing Quarter Agido, may have prevented Arcana’s Authority from working.
I won't push it but it still falls within the realm of PIS and you know it. Unlike within the first 10 volumes that held sufficient information, we are not given an inkling to most of these things.
The Whip that Nobody used to sever Yzak’s head doesn’t just have mind manipulation hax. It literally healed two characters — even though the Mechanical God, created by Ottolu body, should have had regeneration of her own, and Yzak’s claw damage hadn’t healed. Yet that whip healed them. He was also rewriting Militia World’s laws, and if it weren’t for Eldmed and Naya stopping him, Militia World — which should currently be comparable to a Deep 12 World — would have been altered. So much for “the Nobody.”
Yeah, yeah, another case of PIS for you people—because you can either logically explain that, or accept what the author and the series have established regarding the Abyss layer.
. Don't let the verse die
