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Oh, I should also state that Kadabra causes headaches just by being close to him.
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Mami Tomoe vs Kadabra
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
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Hold on, Psyducks **** shit up during headaches... what happens if it's near a kadabra?The real cal howard said:
ApiesDeathbyLazors
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The ribbons power null. Your kinda f**ked if you get wraped up.
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Can Kadabra untangle/loosen the ribbons with telekinesis?
ApiesDeathbyLazors
He/Him- 7,235
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(Man, I feel awkward supporting a Pokemon's side with a Pokemon avatar.)
Anyway, do we assume that Kadabra has the abilities of its pre-evolution, Abra? I mean, presumably, it was an Abra before, & it's a more developed psychic & a stronger form of the previous Pokemon, isn't it?
If we do assume so, I would like to point some of Abra's Pokedex entries.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Abra_(Pokémon)#Pok.C3.A9dex_entries_3
Anyway, do we assume that Kadabra has the abilities of its pre-evolution, Abra? I mean, presumably, it was an Abra before, & it's a more developed psychic & a stronger form of the previous Pokemon, isn't it?
If we do assume so, I would like to point some of Abra's Pokedex entries.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Abra_(Pokémon)#Pok.C3.A9dex_entries_3
"Using its ability to read minds, it will identify impending danger and Teleport to safety." "Sleeps 18 hours a day. If it senses danger, it will teleport itself to safety even as it sleeps." "Even while asleep, it can sense enemies approaching. It Teleports itself to a distant spot if there is any danger." "It senses impending attacks and teleports away to safety before the actual attacks can strike." "If it decides to teleport randomly, it creates the illusion that it has created copies of itself." "It hypnotizes itself so that it can teleport away when it senses danger, even if it is asleep." "It sleeps 18 hours a day. Even while sleeping, it will teleport itself to treetops and pick and eat berries there." The short version being that Abra, as a product of its own abilities is able to sense &/or identify foes, read minds attacks and danger while asleep, & teleport away, & even if it teleports "randomly" it will make illusionary copies of itself. Abra sleeps 18 hours a day, so if Kadabra maintains its experience as an Abra, it likely has plenty of experience &/or capability for evading attacks in this manner. Presumably, if Abra can evade attacks it isn't aware of in such a manner, unconsciously, it could be argued it can do so consciously as well, especially as a Kadabra. Assuming that that counts as Precognition, given that it involves sensing & evading attacks & danger, the notion of Kadabra having such abilities may also be supported by it learning Future Sight, another form of Precognition. So wouldn't it be safe to presume that Kadabra would be aware of Mami's power-nullifying ribbons in advance, & prepared to evade them &/or create illusionary copies of itself, given that its pre-evolution does so in its sleep, & sleeps for 75% of the day? Even if the ribbons are invisible, I'd think being able to sense "danger" or "attacks" or getting visions of the future -such as one's self helpless, depowered and bound- are plausible under these assumptions, & it's questionable Abra needs to see the attacks to evade them, anyway; How much do you see when you're asleep? Pardon my verbosity. Hopefully this seems reasonable. |
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Kadabra does indeed keep abilities from Abra, yes.
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It isn't really precog. Just extrasensory perception + mind reading.
Precog would be more something along the lines of dodging an attack that you can't perceive, simply knowing that something is about to hit you
Illusions are moot because she can sense the original (And has fought illusions users already).
Also, fighting someone who knows everything that she can do? Challenge accepted
Precog would be more something along the lines of dodging an attack that you can't perceive, simply knowing that something is about to hit you
Illusions are moot because she can sense the original (And has fought illusions users already).
Also, fighting someone who knows everything that she can do? Challenge accepted
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Except that Abra arguably doesn't perceive the attacks. It's asleep.
I suppose it does "sense" the attacks... but it also senses danger, & the presence of foes. I'd say it's questionable if it's dependent on being able to read the foe's minds.
Plus, if it can sense the attacks independent of the user, doesn't that still mean it's likely to dodge power-nullifying ribbons &/or create illusionary copies of itself?
And what of the matter of Future Sight's precognition?
Nonetheless, if I understand right, Mami's ribbons nullify every single one of the ensnared victim's powers & abilities, from those we've listed to those we don't?
I suppose it does "sense" the attacks... but it also senses danger, & the presence of foes. I'd say it's questionable if it's dependent on being able to read the foe's minds.
Plus, if it can sense the attacks independent of the user, doesn't that still mean it's likely to dodge power-nullifying ribbons &/or create illusionary copies of itself?
And what of the matter of Future Sight's precognition?
Nonetheless, if I understand right, Mami's ribbons nullify every single one of the ensnared victim's powers & abilities, from those we've listed to those we don't?
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Except that Abra arguably doesn't perceive the attacks. It's asleep.
This just means that it's something that it can do while unconscious.
I suppose it does "sense" the attacks... but it also senses danger, & the presence of foes. I'd say it's questionable if it's dependent on being able to read the foe's mind
That's why it's also extrasensory perception
Plus, if it can sense the attacks independent of the user, doesn't that still mean it's likely to dodge power-nullifying ribbons &/or create illusionary copies of itself?
Yes
And what of the matter of Future Sight's precognition?
Future Sight is precog. But Kadabra learning a precognition move =/= It has regular precog as well
Nonetheless, if I understand right, Mami's ribbons nullify every single one of the ensnared victim's powers & abilities, from those we've listed to those we don't?
What do you mean with "from those we've listed to those we don't"?
This just means that it's something that it can do while unconscious.
I suppose it does "sense" the attacks... but it also senses danger, & the presence of foes. I'd say it's questionable if it's dependent on being able to read the foe's mind
That's why it's also extrasensory perception
Plus, if it can sense the attacks independent of the user, doesn't that still mean it's likely to dodge power-nullifying ribbons &/or create illusionary copies of itself?
Yes
And what of the matter of Future Sight's precognition?
Future Sight is precog. But Kadabra learning a precognition move =/= It has regular precog as well
Nonetheless, if I understand right, Mami's ribbons nullify every single one of the ensnared victim's powers & abilities, from those we've listed to those we don't?
What do you mean with "from those we've listed to those we don't"?
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Well, Mami's ribbons while invisible can't be perceived nor can they be sensed on touch by magical girls, who have at least city wide sensing range and can see and sense the likes of kyubey, who is invisible and whose interactions with the environment can't be perceived. Would Kadabra's senses really be enough?
Only talking about the invisible ones, he should be able to dodge the standard ones.
Only talking about the invisible ones, he should be able to dodge the standard ones.
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I guess...
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@Kaltias: I mean that it would be safe to assume that it nullifies EVERY power that Kadabra has, thoroughly & entirely, without question.
Also, I apologize, but I just noticed this:
Mami:
Tier: 7-A | At least 7-A | At least 7-A | At least 6-C
Abra line:
Tier: 9-B | Low 7-B | High 6-C | At least High 6-C
If Kadabra is Low 7-B, why is it the form for a matchup against a 7-A? Especially when they're a highly experienced, possibly equal or greater in intelligence, mind-manipulation-resisting user of power nullifying projectiles, & Kadabra is mediocre among Pokemon without its hax?
The strongest 7-B are roughly 6.3 times weaker than the strongest Low 7-B, & the strongest 7-B is roughly 16 times weaker than the strongest 7-A.
Is there some incompletely implemented revision I missed? Sorry if I'm seeming like a "sore loser" bringing this up.
Also, I apologize, but I just noticed this:
Mami:
Tier: 7-A | At least 7-A | At least 7-A | At least 6-C
Abra line:
Tier: 9-B | Low 7-B | High 6-C | At least High 6-C
If Kadabra is Low 7-B, why is it the form for a matchup against a 7-A? Especially when they're a highly experienced, possibly equal or greater in intelligence, mind-manipulation-resisting user of power nullifying projectiles, & Kadabra is mediocre among Pokemon without its hax?
The strongest 7-B are roughly 6.3 times weaker than the strongest Low 7-B, & the strongest 7-B is roughly 16 times weaker than the strongest 7-A.
Is there some incompletely implemented revision I missed? Sorry if I'm seeming like a "sore loser" bringing this up.
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But offensively, she may be tens of times stronger...? And it's been said earlier in the thread that once Kadabra starts dodging, she'll probably start using the invisible ribbons, which, supposedly, Kadabra won't have a good shot at sensing, let alone dodging. Which also nullify Kadabra's powers.
Also, even if she doesn't start with her shields, who's to say she wouldn't start using them after she starts getting damaged?
I don't know how her shields work, but what incentive would she have to disable them and allow Kadabra to be able to damage her again? Or do the shields have gaps or shapes that prevent her being effectively entirely protected all at once?
Also, Kadabra's durability is: "Wall level normally. Small City level with psychic powers that are always active"
So doesn't it get one-shot by her power null ribbons? Heck, what if we consider those psychic powers as a "barrier"? Quoting Mami's list of powers & abilities: "can bypass forcefields and barriers with attacks,"
Also, even if she doesn't start with her shields, who's to say she wouldn't start using them after she starts getting damaged?
I don't know how her shields work, but what incentive would she have to disable them and allow Kadabra to be able to damage her again? Or do the shields have gaps or shapes that prevent her being effectively entirely protected all at once?
Also, Kadabra's durability is: "Wall level normally. Small City level with psychic powers that are always active"
So doesn't it get one-shot by her power null ribbons? Heck, what if we consider those psychic powers as a "barrier"? Quoting Mami's list of powers & abilities: "can bypass forcefields and barriers with attacks,"
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Also, even if she doesn't start with her shields, who's to say she wouldn't start using them after she starts getting damaged?
She actually uses them to stop incoming attacks (Because her durability is absolutely awful compared to her own AP and she is aware of it)
I don't know how her shields work, but what incentive would she have to disable them and allow Kadabra to be able to damage her again?
There is a scan on her profile, in her durability section. The forcefields work the same, but all around her.
Mami cannot attack properly while her shields are active. It's kinda like a swordsman using an actual shield. It can be used to block, but it's a hindrance if you try to block and swing your blade contemporarily, so she has to alternate the two
So doesn't it get one-shot by her power null ribbons?
Mami doesn't use her ribbons to cause damage usually, only to restrain. She has used them to restrain 7-Cs and they weren't killed instantly so it's safe to say that they wouldn't kill Kadabra.
The stuff that kills are bullets/explosions
Heck, what if we consider those psychic powers as a "barrier"? Quoting Mami's list of powers & abilities: "can bypass forcefields and barriers with attacks,"
If it can't be bypassed by Feint and similar stuff, it probably wouldn't be bypassed by piercing attacks
She actually uses them to stop incoming attacks (Because her durability is absolutely awful compared to her own AP and she is aware of it)
I don't know how her shields work, but what incentive would she have to disable them and allow Kadabra to be able to damage her again?
There is a scan on her profile, in her durability section. The forcefields work the same, but all around her.
Mami cannot attack properly while her shields are active. It's kinda like a swordsman using an actual shield. It can be used to block, but it's a hindrance if you try to block and swing your blade contemporarily, so she has to alternate the two
So doesn't it get one-shot by her power null ribbons?
Mami doesn't use her ribbons to cause damage usually, only to restrain. She has used them to restrain 7-Cs and they weren't killed instantly so it's safe to say that they wouldn't kill Kadabra.
The stuff that kills are bullets/explosions
Heck, what if we consider those psychic powers as a "barrier"? Quoting Mami's list of powers & abilities: "can bypass forcefields and barriers with attacks,"
If it can't be bypassed by Feint and similar stuff, it probably wouldn't be bypassed by piercing attacks
- 40,446
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- Thread starter
- #67
I personally have some doubts on the invisible, unsenseable ribbons, tbh.
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- #69
Except that Kyubey allows himself to be seen by magical girls. That's not a special power to magical girls. That's like saying kids in Danny Phantom have super sensing because they can see Youngblood when adults can't.
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Do you think Kadabra has a reasonable shot at sensing & evading the invisible ribbons, Kaltias? Also, typically, don't we say that hax from a higher tier can bypass resistance to it?
What do we do in this case, where Kadabra & Mami both have higher AP than their opponent's durability, if I'm understanding their statistics, right?
What do we do in this case, where Kadabra & Mami both have higher AP than their opponent's durability, if I'm understanding their statistics, right?
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You think it has a decent shot at evading -but not sensing- the invisible ribbons in the first place? Why, if I may ask? Especially if prior to the invisible ones starting, Mami would have been using visible ones; A change of pace would likely throw Kadabra off, especially if we assume it can't read Mami's mind.
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Because he can still read her mind. Mami's mind resistance doesn't involve that (Only stuff like controlling, corrupting, rewriting her mind)
So it's kinda like having someone who tells you that an attack is incoming and from where.
It's a hell of a lot harder to dodge that way, but it is doable, for a while at least.
So it's kinda like having someone who tells you that an attack is incoming and from where.
It's a hell of a lot harder to dodge that way, but it is doable, for a while at least.
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@Kal. Again, Youngblood and kids. Magical being can just see magical beings. You know how many cases of "only this person can see me" there are in fiction? Way too many. This isn't different.
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So if I'm understanding this right, would it be reasonable to say she opens with her visible ribbon offenses, which Kadabra has a good shot of dodging, but not as much for sensing them, but she doesn't open with her shields.
It would be likely that Kadabra might try to teleport, & then assault her with Confusion or Psychic, which she's supposedly resisted.
I don't know Mami or Kadabra's exact statistics, but....
High End to Low End ratio from Town (Low 7-C) to Large Town (7-C) is about 17.5x, & Town to Low 7-B is about 10x.
Even if her resistance makes her feel only one tenth of Psychic's power, isn't it still coming from an AP several times stronger than her durability?
Supposing the fight goes longer, before Mami switches to the seemingly unsenseable power-nullifying invisible ribbons, it's also possible for Kadabra to amp itself with Calm Mind -I'd argue difficult, yes, but teleporting to evade based on mind reading is something its pre-evolution does on a regular basis- & heal with Recover, if it can manage to do so while teleporting. Yes, she can nullify Recover, but how soon will she break out the power nullification?
It has other means of amping, too:
"It stares at a silver spoon to amplify its psychic powers before it lets loose. Apparently, gold spoons are no good." (It loses half its psychic power without the spoon, but would Kadabra resort to this & Mami notice it eyeing its spoon while it's teleporting & she's firing & shielding?)
"It possesses strong spiritual power. The more danger it faces, the stronger its psychic power."
As mentioned earlier in the thread, Miracle Eye can also help bypass her resistances to psychic abilities, no?
Mami may also be taxed having to deal with headaches from being nearby Kadabra.
Do her ribbon-weapons -Doesn't she make firearms & the like with her ribbons?- count as precision devices?
"Many odd things happen if this Pokémon is close by. For example, it makes clocks run backwards."
"If it uses its abilities, it emits special alpha waves that cause machines to malfunction."
"When it uses its psychic power, it emits strong alpha waves that can ruin precision devices."
Mami's durability seems greatly weaker than Kadabra's AP. Again, even if resisted to one tenth, going by Attack Potency ranges, Kadabra's AP could still end up being several times higher than her durability. Has she demonstrated resistance enough to survive this level of telekinesis Especially with its ability to amp. What if Kadabra attacks with Psycho Cut?
Also, what of Kinesis hindering her accuracy? ( Described as "A special move of bending spoons to confound the enemy. Makes the user harder to hit." & "The user distracts the foe by bending a spoon. It may lower accuracy.".) If she aims her ribbons, even if it's to "below the target" couldn't that hinder her hitting successfully?
There's also the matter of what if it uses Future Sight before being power nulled. Could the attack hit, especially since she might not expect it from a bound, depowered opponent? Would she survive/resist it?
Although, nonetheless, it does seem like Kadabra's on a time limit based on how long it can keep her from power-nullifying it, since afterwards, even if the ribbons don't kill it -It's Wall Level in durability without its Psychic powers- her next attack will, & it'll be both immobilized & depowered.
So I would assume it comes down to skill/prediction, how much Mami resists what -I'd assume being telekinetically seized is harder to evade than Mami's projectiles-, how soon who goes through what tactics, & how hindered Mami & her weapons are by Kadabra's headache inducement & ruining of machines & precision devices when it's nearby. (Again, do her weapons count as precision devices?)
It would be likely that Kadabra might try to teleport, & then assault her with Confusion or Psychic, which she's supposedly resisted.
I don't know Mami or Kadabra's exact statistics, but....
High End to Low End ratio from Town (Low 7-C) to Large Town (7-C) is about 17.5x, & Town to Low 7-B is about 10x.
Even if her resistance makes her feel only one tenth of Psychic's power, isn't it still coming from an AP several times stronger than her durability?
Supposing the fight goes longer, before Mami switches to the seemingly unsenseable power-nullifying invisible ribbons, it's also possible for Kadabra to amp itself with Calm Mind -I'd argue difficult, yes, but teleporting to evade based on mind reading is something its pre-evolution does on a regular basis- & heal with Recover, if it can manage to do so while teleporting. Yes, she can nullify Recover, but how soon will she break out the power nullification?
It has other means of amping, too:
"It stares at a silver spoon to amplify its psychic powers before it lets loose. Apparently, gold spoons are no good." (It loses half its psychic power without the spoon, but would Kadabra resort to this & Mami notice it eyeing its spoon while it's teleporting & she's firing & shielding?)
"It possesses strong spiritual power. The more danger it faces, the stronger its psychic power."
As mentioned earlier in the thread, Miracle Eye can also help bypass her resistances to psychic abilities, no?
Mami may also be taxed having to deal with headaches from being nearby Kadabra.
Do her ribbon-weapons -Doesn't she make firearms & the like with her ribbons?- count as precision devices?
"Many odd things happen if this Pokémon is close by. For example, it makes clocks run backwards."
"If it uses its abilities, it emits special alpha waves that cause machines to malfunction."
"When it uses its psychic power, it emits strong alpha waves that can ruin precision devices."
Mami's durability seems greatly weaker than Kadabra's AP. Again, even if resisted to one tenth, going by Attack Potency ranges, Kadabra's AP could still end up being several times higher than her durability. Has she demonstrated resistance enough to survive this level of telekinesis Especially with its ability to amp. What if Kadabra attacks with Psycho Cut?
Also, what of Kinesis hindering her accuracy? ( Described as "A special move of bending spoons to confound the enemy. Makes the user harder to hit." & "The user distracts the foe by bending a spoon. It may lower accuracy.".) If she aims her ribbons, even if it's to "below the target" couldn't that hinder her hitting successfully?
There's also the matter of what if it uses Future Sight before being power nulled. Could the attack hit, especially since she might not expect it from a bound, depowered opponent? Would she survive/resist it?
Although, nonetheless, it does seem like Kadabra's on a time limit based on how long it can keep her from power-nullifying it, since afterwards, even if the ribbons don't kill it -It's Wall Level in durability without its Psychic powers- her next attack will, & it'll be both immobilized & depowered.
So I would assume it comes down to skill/prediction, how much Mami resists what -I'd assume being telekinetically seized is harder to evade than Mami's projectiles-, how soon who goes through what tactics, & how hindered Mami & her weapons are by Kadabra's headache inducement & ruining of machines & precision devices when it's nearby. (Again, do her weapons count as precision devices?)
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Okay? So those people can see something that's invisible, unless it's a specific weakness of the invisibility.
Witches specifically can't be seen. So they are invisible.
Kyubey can't be seen. So he is invisible.
And it isn't "only magical girls can see witches".
Kyubey can see them, as well.
Isabeau specifically turn them visible so that they can spread terror.
Witches specifically can't be seen. So they are invisible.
Kyubey can't be seen. So he is invisible.
And it isn't "only magical girls can see witches".
Kyubey can see them, as well.
Isabeau specifically turn them visible so that they can spread terror.
