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Major Pokemon speed upgrade

The_real_cal_howard

The_real_cal_howard

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For the entire verse that's not High 8-C or lower. I got support from Matt, Azzy, SD, and Dragon already, so there's that. What is below is just copy pasted from Azzy's wall.

So, I'm starting to believe that Transonic is too low for like, everything above High 8-C (so everything from the early game final bugs and up). A lot of Pokemon have things that are higher. Hitmonchan has casual Mach 23 punches. Seismic Toss is Mach 28. Pikachu, among several other Pokemon can create lightning storms and fire CtG lightning. Another one that can do that is Manectric (not mega). Ampharos and Starmie have actions that aren't even attacks that go into space in seconds. Ion Deluge is relativistic+ (as the move spreads electrons), and Flash and debatably Solar Beam are lightspeed. Several Pokemon in the Mystery Dungeon series use CtG (though I can't recall which ones off the top of my head) Thunder and its kin Thundershock and Thunderbolt are CtG, along with 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt, as they're pictured as coming from above, and Thunder and 10M Thunderbolt actively come from the clouds, and the other two are weaker versions of Thunder, not slower (10M Volt Thunderbolt being the upped version of Thunderbolt). And Thundershock comes from the clouds in the PMD games. Ash's Pikachu is in the games and has the calced Mach 597 feat. The Magnemite line has been proven to fire true lightning and Zebstrika is the speed of it.

Dragon proposed HHS, possibly MHS for them. I'm thinking of something like this:

Transonic, likely High Hypersonic for High 8-C and lower, High Hypersonic+ for 8-B to 8-A, and Massively Hypersonic for the tier 7s.

What do you think?
 
The changes are fine, though Xcano speaks my mind on the links of said calcs to have presented.
 
Hitmonchan's speed comes from the punch on fire we were talking about before. Seismic Toss was linked in the blog I made about a month back. Lina's Pikachu calc was made a while back as well, and is listed under accepted calculations. Everything else is either lightning or light (or electrons). And they're all statements.
 
Well I can probably find the calcs in that case, but what changes are you proposing here?
 
Transonic, likely High Hypersonic for High 8-C and lower, High Hypersonic+ for 8-B to 8-A, and Massively Hypersonic for the tier 7s.

It's at the bottom of the OP.
 
I have no opinion on the HH+ stuff, since I dunno how the calcs are treated, but the rest seems fine. Finally having speed feats beyond Transonic is neato. Though, not sure why you bring up the Lightspeed stuff if we aren't gonna use it.
 
"Ion Deluge is relativistic+ (as the move spreads electrons)"

How are those related to each other?
 
Also, Hitmonchan's feat sounds more like Mach 5 (Or regular assumption for speed and heat relation)


Also, we can't really scale from moves (Like you say, the Thunder from Pikachu) since they also have "Bullet Punch" to be faster than anything.


Tho we have MHS+ Zebstrika, but I'd prefer to leave that as a debatable stat.
 
@Ever Electrons are extraordinarily quick. They can even move ""FTL"" in water. Although according to TLT they're just MHS in air.
 
Since that speed is more for something like the Legendaries (Like Raikou and Zapdos) so maybe is more likely an hyperbole
 
@Ever. iirc, electrons move at drift velocity, correct? Approx 1/3 SoL?

Edit: I'm wrong. Very wrong. It's slightly less than 1% SoL. Still very high but you get it.

@Saik. Basically, same reasons we brought up Sonic outliers when we upgraded him. Still massive outliers, but gives credence to lower feats that would otherwise be so.
 
Speaking of legendaries, should we scale them to stuff like Flash SolarBeam and Ion Deluge, as it wouldn't necessarily be an outlier for them?
 
@Cal Let's take one step at a time. Let's deal with the normal Pokemon first. Then we can move the discussion for Legends.
 
If you want my opinion, I disagree. Regular Pokémon shouldn't be anything higher than Hypersonic (Or Supersonic+).


And Scaling from moves is rather odd IMO. Because, "dodging" sound-/Electric-/light-based attacks all in the basis while also getting hit by the latter and moves like Mach and Bullet Punch is rather contradictory. Mach 5 is already being nice, let's not get to much into it.
 
"Regular Pokémon shouldn't be anything higher than Hypersonic (Or Supersonic+)."

You kinda need to explain why, you know.
 
Mostly because what I said below... Also since most dex entry about speed doesn't make anything above Supersonic/Hypersonic (Except Zebstrika, but that would Also put it at Zapdos/Raikou level, Which is bull****, so this one has to be hyperbolic)
 
@Aiden Zebestrika's entry doesn't say it moves at the speed of lightning anyway. Just that it has lightning like movements. At best I could see you saying the entry implies Mach speed from "the sound of thunder" possibly being a sonic boom if you do the highest interpretation possible. Zapdos doesn't have a statement of being lightning-speed either.
 
"Zebstrika, the Thunderbolt Pokémon and the evolved form of Blitzle. Zebstrika moves at lightning-quick speed, producing the sound of thunder at a full gallop."

You could argue hyperbole.
 
I would think its hyperbole yeah.

About the speed ratings, I'm not sure we can just jump them, ie it should probably more like:

High 8-C: Transonic, likely High Hypersonic

8-B to 8-A: At least Transonic, likely At least High Hypersonic

7s: Transonic+, likely High Hypersonic+

Normally I would have probably put a bit more focus on the MHS stuff, but Pokemon seems rather inconsistent with its speed (ie outside of the electric line), they generally seem transonic - supersonic.

If we have more MHS feats outside the electric line, replace HH with MHS (Of course, for 7s it would probably still end At least MHS as the gap would be bigger. If we had even more MHS feats outside the electric line, then full out MHS would be fine.
 
Flash, Solar Beam, and Starmie aren't electric, though all of the feats involving them are FTL at a minimum, so I see where you're coming from.
 
Flash is LS (Though somehow very innaccurate), Solar Beam isn't light I think, rather a beam made from solar energy, and what does starmie have?

Though I'm not sure this is part of the topic lol
 
Ssolar beam uses light as '''energy'''. It's not natural light when fired obviously. Real light doesnt bend/curve either. We have Strict Rules about light having real lightspeed.
 
Err...SolarBeam has always been portrayed as a straight line. Also, in the 3-D games, it's fired from a mini-sun. It's still an outlier, but again, gives credence.
 
@SD. Starmie transmits and receives information to and from the depths of space as not even an attack.
 
No that's still solar energy actually, or at least plasma in the case of 3-D games
 
@cal ah i see, that's not quite an ftl feat tho,it would be like considering talking a super sonic feat
 
Furthermore, a handful of Pokémon have the ability Illuminate, and only or of them are electric (that being Chinchou/Lanturn)
 
Transmitting and receiving info shouldn't really scale to anything. That's the equivalent of scaling yelling to someone and them yelling back to your speed or sending a text message as indicative of reaction speed.

Shouldn't all the light based attacks have the same chance to hit if they're made of light? It's not like one laser is harder to dodge than a different laser. They're both c.
 
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