Mahito vs Santa Claus

[Arkenis]

Mahito 49.3T: LordGinSama
Doll Devil 91T: Hiiilt
Darkness Devil Contract Santa
SBA (Location: a School)
Equal Speed
100m apart

 

[Hiiilt]

Santa can't interact with mahito

 

[Arkenis]

Santa can't interact with mahito

Yes they can. Just not the soul

 

[Hiiilt]

Yes they can. Just not the soul

Aren't cursed spirits invisible and intangible?

 

[Arkenis]

Aren't cursed spirits invisible and intangible?

Invisible at times yes but intangible is only for the weaker ones.

 

[Hiiilt]

Invisible at times yes but intangible is only for the weaker ones.

I see.

Both can transform the other but santa can change bodies the moment mahito touch her

her dolls can also transform him into a doll while mahito can only transfigurate her with his main body

I think Santa claus wins

 

[That_moron2]

Pretty sure Mahito can just transmute himself back from being dolled.

 

[GunshyFever]

Pretty sure Mahito can just transmute himself back from being dolled.

I thought so too, but Santa can take away his will to think when he turns her into a doll

 

[That_moron2]

I thought so too, but Santa can take away his will to think when he turns her into a doll

Cursed Energy resists mind manipulation.

 

[Arkenis]

Cursed Energy resists mind manipulation.

Yeah mind manipulation isn't all the same. ce mind hax is just this

• Mental Manipulation (Prolonged exposure to cursed energy can erode the mind[10])

Not the same as

Can turn humans into dolls while keeping their consciousness intact to unnerve enemies[4].

 

[That_moron2]

Yeah mind manipulation isn't all the same. ce mind hax is just this

• Mental Manipulation (Prolonged exposure to cursed energy can erode the mind[10])

Not the same as

Can turn humans into dolls while keeping their consciousness intact to unnerve enemies[4].

1. It kinda is
2. Nobara also resists mind manipulation

 

[LaserPrecision]

Invisible at times yes but intangible is only for the weaker ones.

The weaker ones can become selectively intangible to be specific. Regular Curses are Invisible and Invulnerable to attacks that aren't Jujutsu (Or in the case of VSBW, any power system that would be similar to Cursed Energy or stuff more complex then it).

I see.

Both can transform the other but santa can change bodies the moment mahito touch her

her dolls can also transform him into a doll while mahito can only transfigurate her with his main body

I think Santa claus wins

Wouldn't a big problem be the fact they can't see Mahito? Mahito could just gleefully walk up to her and Transfigure her soul. Making it impossible for them to swap bodies.

 

[Arkenis]

Wouldn't a big problem be the fact they can't see Mahito? Mahito could just gleefully walk up to her and Transfigure her soul. Making it impossible for them to swap bodies.

They should be able to see him. They're already more close in nature to curses, and curses are perceivable at times even to non sorcerers.

 

[LaserPrecision]

They should be able to see him. They're already more close in nature to curses, and curses are perceivable at times even to non sorcerers.

They are not close in nature to curses. This isn't a you problem, this is just a general issue, but I hate how I've been seeing people (Whether that be here or on other sites) have been conflating the two as being similar just because they have very vague connections. The most people ever really give is that both are born from "negative emotions". Which is like a super common trope, and isn't enough to just say the two are nearly the same. There's a lot of differences. Curses are born from negative emotions which includes things such as fear. Demons are born exclusively from fear of something that already exists. One are invisible to humans and can't be harmed by anything other than Cursed Energy. One can be hurt and killed by normal humans and weapons and is visible to everybody.

And yes, Curses are perceivable when their life is already in danger. Like when Mahito used Idle Transfiguration on those guys in the Theater. It's typically too late to do anything of note by the time they do see them. And some people don't even see them until it's already too late and they've been killed. Such as Shibuya where a lot of them couldn't see what was going on as they died, while some did take notice of the Curses.

I think Santa would see Mahito, but not in time to do anything before dying.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Following

 

[Arkenis]

They are not close in nature to curses. This isn't a you problem, this is just a general issue, but I hate how I've been seeing people (Whether that be here or on other sites) have been conflating the two as being similar just because they have very vague connections. The most people ever really give is that both are born from "negative emotions". Which is like a super common trope, and isn't enough to just say the two are nearly the same. There's a lot of differences. Curses are born from negative emotions which includes things such as fear. Demons are born exclusively from fear of something that already exists. One are invisible to humans and can't be harmed by anything other than Cursed Energy. One can be hurt and killed by normal humans and weapons and is visible to everybody.

The nature isn't something more complex or esoteric than devils, both are representations of fear, negative emotions, that's pretty close in nature. Mahito says as much 1, 2, 3. Sure Curses are born from negative emotions in general but they're also born from the fear of humans, Devils are that too, where is the real distinction?

And yes, Curses are perceivable when their life is already in danger. Like when Mahito used Idle Transfiguration on those guys in the Theater. It's typically too late to do anything of note by the time they do see them. And some people don't even see them until it's already too late and they've been killed. Such as Shibuya where a lot of them couldn't see what was going on as they died, while some did take notice of the Curses.

Nah. Yuji could feel their pressure and see them pretty soon in the series without any training. In Shibuya the people also could see the curses and they weren't in immediate danger. Its also special places like a school where they can see them. If it makes it any better I can just put Location as a school or hospital if you want.

 

[LaserPrecision]

The nature isn't something more complex or esoteric than devils, both are representations of fear, negative emotions, that's pretty close in nature. Mahito says as much 1, 2, 3. Sure Curses are born from negative emotions in general but they're also born from the fear of humans, Devils are that too, where is the real distinction?

The problem is you're conflating the source of these two completely different entities by their source. Where they come from as opposed to their actual composition/properties. Demons are physical beings manifested by fear that have internal organs similar to a human. Curses are composed entirely of immaterial negative (Cursed) energy and can't be seen or harmed by normal humans. This would be like comparing a normal human to a god of unexplainable abstract nature simply because both were born from a woman. Sure, they came about the same way, but the properties of the two are different. The distinction lies in their physical (or non-physical in the case of Curses) composition itself. Where they come from is irrelevant.

Nah. Yuji could feel their pressure and see them pretty soon in the series without any training. In Shibuya the people also could see the curses and they weren't in immediate danger. Its also special places like a school where they can see them. If it makes it any better I can just put Location as a school or hospital if you want.

With Yuji being a special child born from the experimentation of Kenjaku who consumed a finger and could already use Cursed Energy even if not expertly. Not to mention Yuji's life was in danger when he jumped in to help, was in a special place, and even then he admitted to never seeing one before until that day despite going to that school.

Only SOME people at Shibuya could see the Curses right before they went on a killing spree, and a majority of them didn't see them as they were being slaughtered, just standing around aimlessly as they were picked off.

As for the location, that's up to you. Granted I feel it gets rid of one of Mahito's main advantages of stealth. But I imagine it'd be pretty hard to have a fair fight if Santa gets killed before they even see Mahito. So I think it probably seems like the right call. But it'd still be arguable if she sees him right away given Yuji who goes to that school never saw them until that moment.

 

[Hiiilt]

Wouldn't a big problem be the fact they can't see Mahito? Mahito could just gleefully walk up to her and Transfigure her soul. Making it impossible for them to swap bodies.

Good point.

But Santa has her dolls to keep Mahito busy and the moment he kills or touch one of her dolls she's going to notice and know where he is since they have a hive mind.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Good point.

But Santa has her dolls to keep Mahito busy and the moment he kills or touch one of her dolls she's going to notice and know where he is since they have a hive mind.

He would use transfiguration humans first

 

[Hiiilt]

He would use transfiguration humans first

Would it really change anything? Santa Claus has way more dolls(hitting her dolls, even through cloth, will turn you into a doll so his transfigurated humans are just going to turn into dolls too)

 

[Emerald]

Darkness Contract Santa can turn beings that couldn't be transmutated and controlled before into dolls

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Would it really change anything? Santa Claus has way more dolls(hitting her dolls, even through cloth, will turn you into a doll)

I mean numbers vs numbers. I'm not sure how many transfiguration he has but definitely I can say he most likely has more than 100 for sure
How many dolls Santa claus has? Also so the dolls has souls? Because he can't change inanimate objects without souls. So Santa claus shouldn't know his ability even if he touches the dolls.

 

[Hiiilt]

I mean numbers vs numbers. I'm not sure how many transfiguration he has but definitely I can say he most likely has more than 100 for sure
How many dolls Santa claus has?

She has dolls all over the world and Santa stated that killing one of her dolls was more useless than trying to dye the ocean red with a single droop of blood

While they shouldn't be a trouble for mahito they should be able to get rid of his transfigurated humans

Also so the dolls has souls? Because he can't change inanimate objects without souls.

They have inorganic physiology but idk if they have souls or not

So Santa claus shouldn't know his ability even if he touches the dolls.

If her dolls touch him he is going to be turned into a doll too

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

She has dolls all over the world and Santa stated that killing one of her dolls was moe useless than trying to dye the ocean red with a single droop of blood

Yeah but what stopping Mahito just changing her soul. This also affects mind of the opponent like they would turn into mindless like how Junpie become. Messing soul already messes up mind so that Mahito victims can't think properly. So I don't think she can swap between her dolls if Mahito uses his abilities on her directly.

They have inorganic physiology but idk if they have souls or not

Then Santa claus shouldn't be able to figure out Mahito abilities.

If her dolls touch him he is going to be turned into a doll too

As far as I see it only work on Humans right? Even in weakness it's stated hybrids and devil's can't be turned into dolls. Curses are not humans so that ability shouldn't work.

 

[Hiiilt]

Yeah but what stopping Mahito just changing her soul. This also affects mind of the opponent like they would turn into mindless like how Junpie become. Messing soul already messes up mind so that Mahito victims can't think properly. So I don't think she can swap between her dolls if Mahito uses his abilities on her directly

Her dolls getting in his way and revealing his location

Then Santa claus shouldn't be able to figure out Mahito abilities.

Even if she doesn't know about his ability she should at least be able to locate him once he kills one of her dolls(they have a hive mind) and if he orders her dolls to jump at him to turn him into a doll(after she locates him) idk if there's anything he can do

As far as I see it only work on Humans right? Even in weakness it's stated hybrids and devil's can't be turned into dolls. Curses are not humans so that ability shouldn't work.

That's because devils/fiends are immune and have resistance to transmutation(in her darkness form her power gains another layer and she becomes able to turn fiends into dolls so it doesn't really matter)

IMO while mahito can transfigurate her with one touch and his invisibility gives him a advantage santa hive mind with her dolls(and her dolls ability to turn others into dolls too) make her more likely to win so i'm voting on santa claus

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Her dolls getting in his way and revealing his location

SBA would be 4kms she needs to indentify Mahito first. Also he can use Transfiguration to find out Santa claus abilities and come up with a plan.

Even if she doesn't know about his ability she should at least be able to locate him once he kills one of her dolls(they have a hive mind) and if he orders her dolls to jump at him to turn him into a doll(after she locates him) idk if there's anything he can do

He wouldn't just kill the dolls his all encounters except Mechamaru used transfiguration humans to do his dirty work.

That's because devils/fiends are immune and have resistance to transmutation(in her darkness form her power gains another layer and she becomes able to turn fiends into dolls so it doesn't really matter)

This scan seems like indicating it only works on humans so devil's and half devil's are immune to it though ?


Even if go by she can Somehow turn him to doll what stopping him from transforming himself back?

IMO while mahito can transfigurate her with one touch and his invisibility gives him a advantage santa hive mind with her dolls(and her dolls ability to turn others into dolls too) make her more likely to win so i'm voting on santa claus

She has no way to kill him permanently. Santa at best can incon. While Mahito can indeed kill her with touch.

 

[Hiiilt]

SBA would be 4kms she needs to indentify Mahito first.

The same is true for him tho

Any of her dolls can become santa Claus, she even tells denji that at the end of her arc

Also he can use Transfiguration to find out Santa claus abilities and come up with a plan.

How? Santa Claus can Just orders her dolls to jump at him and while he is stronger the them he would soon get overwhelmed

He wouldn't just kill the dolls his all encounters except Mechamaru used transfiguration humans to do his dirty work.

He doesn't have nearly enough transfigurated humans to deal with half of her dolls(and his transfigurated humans are also going to turn into dolls)

This scan seems like indicating it only works on humans so devil's and half devil's are immune to it though ?

Santa Claus is able to transfigurate them in her darkness form since her power gains another layer(she turns quanxi gfs into dolls and she was about to try to transform quanxi into one)

Even if go by she can Somehow turn him to doll what stopping him from transforming himself back?

Mind manip and body puppetry

She has no way to kill him permanently. Santa at best can incon. While Mahito can indeed kill her with touch.

Even if her dollification didn't work she also has bfr

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The same is true for him tho

Yeah I know but he can split his soul and make that guy search for him or send the transfiguration humans?

Any of her dolls can become santa Claus, she even tells denji that at the end of her arc

How? Santa Claus can Just orders her dolls to jump at him and while he is stronger the them he would soon get overwhelmed

Dolls should be able to perceive him first which I don't see it in the profile.

He doesn't have nearly enough transfigurated humans to deal with half of her dolls(and his transfigurated humans are also going to turn into dolls)

He would just stop wasting them and would search for her real doll. He uses souls for perception. He should be able to tell which doll is real and which isn't.

Santa Claus is able to transfigurate them in her darkness form since her power gains another layer(she turns quanxi gfs into dolls and she was about to try to transform quanxi into one)

Mahito transfiguration is based on soul so having body transfiguration layers shouldn't matter. He uses his soul as a medium to reform his body

Mind manip and body puppetry

Need feats for affecting mind in Mahito soul

Even if her dollification didn't work she also has bfr

Well this is something we need to debate then. How does her BFR works?

 

[Hiiilt]

Yeah I know but he can split his soul and make that guy search for him or send the transfiguration humans?

His copy Can't transfigurate other people tho only his main body

Dolls should be able to perceive him first which I don't see it in the profile.

They should be able to perceive him the moment he kills or destroy them

He would just stop wasting them and would search for her real doll. He uses souls for perception. He should be able to tell which doll is real and which isn't.

He can only do that once his touch his target, no?

Mahito transfiguration is based on soul so having body transfiguration layers shouldn't matter. He uses his soul as a medium to reform his body

My point is that even If she could only transform humans in her first form it Doesn't matyer because she loses this weakness in her darkness form

Need feats for affecting mind in Mahito soul

He still Doesn't resist body puppetry

Well this is something we need to debate then. How does her BFR works?

She sacrifices one of her dolls to the hell Devil(by forcing the do to say 'i sacrifice myself' but she can also sacrifice other people against their will) and the hell Devil teleports her target to another dimension

 

[Arkenis]

The problem is you're conflating the source of these two completely different entities by their source. Where they come from as opposed to their actual composition/properties. Demons are physical beings manifested by fear that have internal organs similar to a human. Curses are composed entirely of immaterial negative (Cursed) energy and can't be seen or harmed by normal humans. This would be like comparing a normal human to a god of unexplainable abstract nature simply because both were born from a woman. Sure, they came about the same way, but the properties of the two are different. The distinction lies in their physical (or non-physical in the case of Curses) composition itself. Where they come from is irrelevant.

Special grades are physical manifestations so idk why you’re bringing up npi or immaterial?

As for the location, that's up to you. Granted I feel it gets rid of one of Mahito's main advantages of stealth.

sba states the characters fight in a location viable to both so shouldn’t be some crazy disadvantage to him here

 

[Arkenis]

She sacrifices one of her dolls to the hell Devil(by forcing the do to say 'i sacrifice myself' but she can also sacrifice other people against their will) and the hell Devil teleports her target to another dimension

The bfr was for a plan to send them to hell, would she do it here too?

 

[GunshyFever]

The bfr was for a plan to send them to hell, would she do it here too?

She will likely do it If Mahito uses a bunch a transfigured humans, because she only seems to use it to take out an entire group of enemies at once

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

His copy Can't transfigurate other people tho only his main body

I'm talking about scouting. Him sending his clones to find the Santa claus

They should be able to perceive him the moment he kills or destroy them

No that's not how it works @LaserPrecision addressed this point above. Also you can check the curse physiology. Whatever curses does couldn't be perceived by non Sorcerers.

He can only do that once his touch his target, no?

Gojo & Yuki were able to perceive the souls even Yuji was able to perceive Sukuna and Megumi soul boundaries without touching. Mahito has better soul manipulation knowledge he should be able to perceive others souls without touching them.

My point is that even If she could only transform humans in her first form it Doesn't matyer because she loses this weakness in her darkness form

He still Doesn't resist body puppetry

He would discard the current body and recreate new body if this happens though first she needs to perceive him

She sacrifices one of her dolls to the hell Devil(by forcing the do to say 'i sacrifice myself' but she can also sacrifice other people against their will) and the hell Devil teleports her target to another dimension

This might I agree with you. But shouldn't she perceive Mahito first to even summon the hell devil? Also is this in character for her?

 

[Arkenis]

She will likely do it If Mahito uses a bunch a transfigured humans, because she only seems to use it to take out an entire group of enemies at once

But she's got dolls and she's in her darkness contract, would she really think she needs to do that? Also when she does bfr them, its really to deliver denji to dd not for some tactical or offensive purpose.

 

[Arkenis]

No that's not how it works @LaserPrecision addressed this point above. Also you can check the curse physiology. Whatever curses does couldn't be perceived by non Sorcerers.

I've already addressed this and covered it in the OP. They fight in a school so Santa can see Mahito. And what Mahito does is uses transfigured humans... Santa will see all of them.

 

[Hiiilt]

I'm talking about scouting. Him sending his clones to find the Santa claus

good point.

but since they can't transfigurate what stops her from changing locations?

No that's not how it works @LaserPrecision addressed this point above. Also you can check the curse physiology. Whatever curses does couldn't be perceived by non Sorcerers.

if mahito destroys one of her dolls she's going to know he is in the location her dolls are being destroyed

Gojo & Yuki were able to perceive the souls even Yuji was able to perceive Sukuna and Megumi soul boundaries without touching. Mahito has better soul manipulation knowledge he should be able to perceive others souls without touching them.

i thought gojo could only do that cuz of the six eyes

i don't remember yuki doing that tho do you have any scans?

He would discard the current body and recreate new body if this happens though first she needs to perceive him

he would also have to find her since she has stealthy mastery(and power who has enhanced senses didn't notice what she was doing)

This might I agree with you. But shouldn't she perceive Mahito first to even summon the hell devil? Also is this in character for her?

she only has one fight in the manga and she summons the hell devil right before the fight happens

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

good point.

but since they can't transfigurate what stops her from changing locations?

if mahito destroys one of her dolls she's going to know he is in the location her dolls are being destroyed

I'm not saying he would catch her but he should be able to identify her doll with real soul. Not saying it's an easy thing

i thought gojo could only do that cuz of the six eyes

Yeah but Yuji can do that too.

i don't remember yuki doing that tho do you have any scans?

• Limited Telepathy & Enhanced Senses (Yuki was a Star Plasma Vessel who refused to merge with Tengen. She can hear the voices of her fellow vessels within Tengen.[10])

he would also have to find her since she has stealthy mastery(and power who has enhanced senses didn't notice what she was doing)

His senses works by perceiving souls

she only has one fight in the manga and she summons the hell devil right before the fight happens

Bfr is a Wincon for Santa claus then

Anyway overall I agree with BFR being a Wincon but I will wait for @LaserPrecision to make any counter arguments for that. For now put me under Neutral. If laser doesn't refute your arguments. I will change my vote to Santa claus.

 

[That_moron2]

It’s pretty in character for Mahito to send out Transfigured Humans to deal with Santa, and then formulate a plan based off the observed ability.

 

[Arkenis]

Even if Mahito does send out transfigured humans, they are far weaker than Santa's darkness dolls plus they can be made into dolls as well.

 

[That_moron2]

Even if Mahito does send out transfigured humans, they are far weaker than Santa's darkness dolls plus they can be made into dolls as well.

Them being made into dolls helps Mahito since he now knows how the ability works.