Madness Combat Discussion Thread: Redeemer

[Employe]

So it's not magic???? Like if it goes against what was established IN THE SAME EXACT GAME then chances are it's not magic

Magic Meter for the halo says otherwise.

And unfortunately that contradicts what we're told in the exact same game, so either Crackpot is simply immune to rules of magic so he can use it or it's not magic.

He simply doesn't showcase the other abilities of magic that anyone could confidently say he has magic. Sure he may have boon coins, but considering the only characters in the game have shown to be capable of using them is The Gambler and The Maker i'm a little hesitant to say Crackpot of all people could aswell, since thats kinda a big jump.

I'd say it's only a possibility that he has magic, but it should be assumed he was poisoned with dissonance much like any other scientist at the time. I'd remove his abilities from the blog post.

How Crackpot doesn't having any wand contradicts to him straight up USING it and being called as magical abilities in the Dossier?

As for Magic Bar from MN 1.5, I'll argue this is most likely just another inconsistency of series (We all understand how much them exist within the Madness Universe. Take Jeb summoning a crest in Madness 1 and never doing it again. Or Nexus Core units from MPN 1.5 and MPN 2 being completely different), especially since MPN 2 never says anything like this and Dossier even does an obious difference between Crackpot's magic and Jeb's dissonant bolts

If they are indeed same, then why they are both called differently in the Dossier and have different properties in the game?

I think we at least can put under a possibility rating

 

[Comiphorous]

How Crackpot doesn't having any wand contradicts to him straight up USING it and being called as magical abilities in the Dossier?

i'm not even entertaining this rule of thought. The fact he contradicts it is AGAINST your point.

As for Magic Bar from MN 1.5, I'll argue this is most likely just another inconsistency of series (We all understand how much them exist within the Madness Universe. Take Jeb summoning a crest in Madness 1 and never doing it again. Or Nexus Core units from MPN 1.5 and MPN 2 being completely different), especially since MPN 2 never says anything like this and Dossier even does an obious difference between Crackpot's magic and Jeb's dissonant bolts

None of the things you mentioned are even inconsistencies. The only inconsistency that you have failed to address is Crackpot going against the established rules of how magic works in Madness Combat.

Your only evidence on Crackpot having a shit ton of haxes he's never even been implied capable of having is vibes. thats literally it.

If they are indeed same, then why they are both called differently in the Dossier and have different properties in the game?

Dissonance looks different for each character that uses it. When Jesus uses it, dissonance is dark purple/black, Phobos' is red/pink, The Auditor's is Red/Black, and Tricky has confetti and clown sounds play when he uses it.

It being visually different for Crackpot isn't actually that weird. It'd arguably be weirder if it looked the same as anyone else's

I think we at least can put under a possibility rating

I think we can have it not on the profile at all actually.

 

[Employe]

i'm not even entertaining this rule of thought. The fact he contradicts it is AGAINST your point.

None of the things you mentioned are even inconsistencies. The only inconsistency that you have failed to address is Crackpot going against the established rules of how magic works in Madness Combat.

Your only evidence on Crackpot having a shit ton of haxes he's never even been implied capable of having is vibes. thats literally it.

Phobos' dissonance attacks look differently than Jesus' and Tricky's, are we gonna assume he doesn't use dissonance as well?

Dissonance looks different for each character that uses it.

I think we can have it not on the profile at all actually.

When did I contradict to himself? My point that is that magic can be used even without any wands, and Crackpot's an example of it, because he literally uses it, crazy?

So you just ignored all my points, which include:

1. Looking and sounding EXACTLY like Magic and having differences from what dissonant showed

2. Being openly CALLED as magical from a reliable source

3. Fact that it used specifically and only by a character who has shown interested in the coins which are used ONLY for magic

And you conveniently reduced it to "Your argument is vibes"

Nice lie

I'm sorry, but are we serious at this point? You can't be serious about what we see in these games being consistent and making sense to each other. Riot guards ALONE are fundamentally different in these games

Phobos dissonant doesn't look different, tho? Like, he has some additional powers, but outside of this his projectiles look exactly like Jebs and have same colors (Black & Dark purple, while Crackpot is absolutely different White & Light purple)

He only changes his colour after wearing Halo, which is more about what halo can do

And Tricky doesn't use any dissonant attack (Although he is obviously poisoned with this), lmao. Also, he likely already had Drive powers at this point, since he looks exactly like his MC 5 S-3LF, which had it being put into his head


I'm not going to delete it unless you properly refute all these points

 

[Alexander]

are we seriosly making a discussion about ******* MAGIC?

 

[Employe]

are we seriosly making a discussion about ******* MAGIC?

Why not? It is an interesting matter

 

[Comiphorous]

When did I contrradict to himself? My point that is that magic can be used even without any wands, and Crackpot's an example of it, because he literally uses it, crazy?

Idc wtf you gotta say, i care what the game has to say, and the game says you need a wand for magic, so crackpot can't be using magic. I don't care what you datamined as proof.

So you just ignored all my points, which include:

1. Looking and sounding EXACTLY like Magic and having differences from what dissonant showed

2. Being openly CALLED as magical from a reliable source

3. Fact that it used specifically and only by a character who has shown interested in the coins which are used ONLY for magic

1. It doesn't do anything different than dissonance. Everything crackpot has shown, another dissonance user has done before.

2. not a reliable source. you datamined for it. And even then, him having magic still contradicts the very game he's in beyond you using Crackpot has proof it doesn't (which doesn't work here and you know why)

3. said coins only usable for magic when a 1-A deity that controls all of reality gets their hands on it. 1-A crackpot here we go!!!!!

Nice lie

Not a lie.

Phobos dissonant doesn't look different, tho? Like, he has some additional powers, but outside of this his projectiles look exactly like Jebs and have same colors (Black & Dark purple, while Crackpot is absolutely different White & Light purple)

They're ******* RED what are you TALKING ABOUT LMAOOOO

And Tricky doesn't use any dissonant attack (Although he is obviously poisoned with this), lmao. Also, he likely already had Drive powers at this point, since he looks exactly like his MC 5 S-3LF, which had it being put into his head

He creates confetti by teleporting, which is a dissonance ability of his.

Humor me, what's the drive powered by? (spoilers, it's dissonance) and again, he has never shown any proof that he can directly control what the drive affects. The few times it's been directed toward people is The Auditor's drive, and The Auditor empowering Tricky using the drive. Both times were not him.

are we seriosly making a discussion about ******* MAGIC?

Magic is not new in madness, where have you been?

 

[Employe]

Idc wtf you gotta say, i care what the game has to say, and the game says you need a wand for magic, so crackpot can't be using magic. I don't care what you datamined as proof.

1. It doesn't do anything different than dissonance. Everything crackpot has shown, another dissonance user has done before.

2. not a reliable source. you datamined for it. And even then, him having magic still contradicts the very game he's in beyond you using Crackpot has proof it doesn't (which doesn't work here and you know why)

3. said coins only usable for magic when a 1-A deity that controls all of reality gets their hands on it. 1-A crackpot here we go!!!!!

Not a lie.

They're ******* RED what are you TALKING ABOUT LMAOOOO

He creates confetti by teleporting, which is a dissonance ability of his.

Humor me, what's the drive powered by? (spoilers, it's dissonance) and again, he has never shown any proof that he can directly control what the drive affects. The few times it's been directed toward people is The Auditor's drive, and The Auditor empowering Tricky using the drive. Both times were not him.

Magic is not new in madness, where have you been?

This is not datamining, this literally what the game shows

Also, proofs on dossier being unreliable? These are official descriptions from something what's leaked free to download and check. Then just delete dossier stuff from every single page

Tricky's drive, althought does truly work on dissonant, is blatantly shown to have different abilities as a result of how drive works. You can't convince me that everyone using dissonant gonna to have powers similar to Tricky's. Comparing his capacities to the other dissonant users makes no sense due to how drive itself works.

Yes, Phobos does have some red attacks and also black/dark purple ones too (i.e his sword), the latter which are common to everyone dissonant radiated, but Crackpot has no.

Gambler isn't any sort of 1-A deity and Crackpot could have received The Maker's boon coins due to exchanging them with Protagonist (Which is what he does)

I can understand his confuse. Magic isn't something with what most people will associate the Madness franchise

 

[Comiphorous]

This is not datamining, this literally what the game shows

I was referring to the dossier. I only slightly have an issue with it but lowkey doesn't matter cuz it's okay for like supporting evidence. I don't like using it as the main evidence, but thats just me. I overall don't have an issue with the dossier EXCEPT for here because it lowkey doesn't add up with what happens in game.

Also, proofs on dossier being unreliable? These are official descriptions from something what's leaked free to download and check. Then just delete dossier stuff from every single page

I don't put dossier stuff on the pages unless i wanna use it for a quote because they don't have any notable ones. Removing dossier stuff would hurt you guys, not me.

Y'all forget that i deadass don't use WoG or datamined Dossier stuff. Threatening to remove it doesn't affect me.

Tricky's drive, althought does truly work on dissonant, is blatantly shown to have different abilities as a result of how drive works. You can't convince me that everyone using dissonant gonna to have powers similar to Tricky's. Comparing his capacities to the other dissonant users makes no sense due to how drive itself works.

They aren't, but Tricky teleporting isn't an ability of the drive. He's shown to do it without it.

Yes, Phobos does have some red attacks and also black/dark purple ones too (i.e his sword), the latter which are common to everyone dissonant radiated, but Crackpot has no.

his dissonance is pink/red. the weapons he makes aren't made of dissonance. Everyone's dissonance looks slightly different unless it's specifically a move they share (Jeb and Phobos' charge up explosion for example)

Gambler isn't any sort of 1-A deity and Crackpot could have received The Maker's boon coins due to exchanging them with Protagonist (Which is what he does)

And how does he manage to use said tokens without The Maker or Gambler? Crackpot's never met either of those two. The point is that he literally cannot have magic because he doesn't have the resources to actually obtain it in the timeline of events.

 

[Employe]

I was referring to the dossier. I only slightly have an issue with it but lowkey doesn't matter cuz it's okay for like supporting evidence. I don't like using it as the main evidence, but thats just me. I overall don't have an issue with the dossier EXCEPT for here because it lowkey doesn't add up with what happens in game.

I don't put dossier stuff on the pages unless i wanna use it for a quote because they don't have any notable ones. Removing dossier stuff would hurt you guys, not me.

Y'all forget that i deadass don't use WoG or datamined Dossier stuff. Threatening to remove it doesn't affect me.

They aren't, but Tricky teleporting isn't an ability of the drive. He's shown to do it without it.

his dissonance is pink/red. the weapons he makes aren't made of dissonance. Everyone's dissonance looks slightly different unless it's specifically a move they share (Jeb and Phobos' charge up explosion for example)

And how does he manage to use said tokens without The Maker or Gambler? Crackpot's never met either of those two. The point is that he literally cannot have magic because he doesn't have the resources to actually obtain it in the timeline of events.

Well, I'm doing same - use it as supportive args in the light of his attacks being exactly like magical ones. And being honest, Dossier doesn't really tell much on ita own and the game itself is abound of information and descriptions. So you can't delete it ane I couldn't care less

Tricky most likely used this ability through drive? Although can't be sure whether anything directly states that he already had it, but given that he looks like his MC 5... he perhaps did have drive? Or he had it implanted in between MPN and MC 5? Honestly, idk

Phobos summons a lot of purple/ black stuff - just look on the surronding (Which he casted too), and from what else he could have created his sword? Don't see anything outside of his dissonant

As for him achieving magic, I surely can say that he somehow himself studied it through coins or perhaps even entered Gambler's dimension, since Crackpot managed to negotiate and earn trust of the Arena Protag, but it will be far too speculative and fetched off to assume, so lemme concede this point.

I still think his attacks following exactly same effects as magic from Arena Mode, being called as magical, and on the top of this having access to magical coins is a firm enough indicator for estimating him as magical, but this is just my opinion and I'm not going to pretend that it is something what is 100% reliable and everyone should agree.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Ya know, I find it ******* hilarious that some of y'all want to put magic onto Crackpot's profile, when it wouldn't help him in the slightest because he's never shown to do jack shit with it lmfao

He'd win NO versus matches on the back of magic, because he doesn't even ******* use the shit 99% of the time, so if you argue He'd use the esoteric shit, I'd ask for the proof thy could not provide.

 

[Employe]

By the way, I'm interested to do a profile for N51 and think it will be funny enough

They definitely should be at bare minimum 1-A via being able to burn my ass and asses of many other people across the world thanks to Hard Sell's difficulty

 

[Comiphorous]

Ya know, I find it ******* hilarious that some of y'all want to put magic onto Crackpot's profile, when it wouldn't help him in the slightest because he's never shown to do jack shit with it lmfao

He'd win NO versus matches on the back of magic, because he doesn't even ******* use the shit 99% of the time, so if you argue He'd use the esoteric shit, I'd ask for the proof thy could not provide.

He'd arguably be better off if i'm right and the abilities he's spamming through his boss fight is dissonance.

By the way, I'm interested to do a profile for N51 and think it will be funny enough

They definitely should be at bare minimum 1-A via being able to burn my ass and asses of many other people across the world thanks to Hard Sell's difficulty

0 for being created by a fan of the series, which sees The Maker and The Machine as fiction real asf.

 

[Employe]

Ya know, I find it ******* hilarious that some of y'all want to put magic onto Crackpot's profile, when it wouldn't help him in the slightest because he's never shown to do jack shit with it lmfao

He'd win NO versus matches on the back of magic, because he doesn't even ******* use the shit 99% of the time, so if you argue He'd use the esoteric shit, I'd ask for the proof thy could not provide.

He shoots stuff which can be seen as magical (Or dissonant which is also busted as hell), can fly and teleport, to say he has no supernatural abilities that are vs-viable is frankly untrue

 

[Comiphorous]

He shoots stuff which can be seen as magical (Or dissonant which is also busted as hell), can fly and teleport, to say he has no supernatural abilities that are vs-viable is frankly untrue

Is there an actual clip of him flying? Because the clip you used is him falling, not flying. flight looks a lot different in Project Nexus than what you posted for Crackpot.

 

[DaReaperMan]

He shoots stuff which can be seen as magical (Or dissonant which is also busted as hell), can fly and teleport, to say he has no supernatural abilities that are vs-viable is frankly untrue

Oh so basic ***** shit that's easy to dodge and doesn't even hax anyway! Congratulations, you have a guy with the equivalent of a Jetpack and a gun.

 

[Employe]

Oh so basic ***** shit that's easy to dodge and doesn't even hax anyway! Congratulations, you have a guy with the equivalent of a Jetpack and a gun.

Guys, should we tell him about what abilities dissonant has or how rabid and actually efficient his teleports?

 

[Comiphorous]

Tricky most likely used this ability through drive? Although can't be sure whether anything directly states that he already had it, but given that he looks like his MC 5... he perhaps did have drive? Or he had it implanted in between MPN and MC 5? Honestly, idk

He can still teleport after he lost the drive, so it's definitely something he can just do.

Phobos summons a lot of purple/ black stuff - just look on the surronding (Which he casted too), and from what else he could have created his sword? Don't see anything outside of his dissonant

Dissonance is typically purple, but takes on several colors depending on who's using it is my point. It doesn't have a set appearance and the game and series shows that. Dissonance taking on the appearance of magic because Crackpot has a fascination with magic, much like how Tricky was fascinated in his clown persona and it started using confetti and clown sounds when it was used, isn't too far fetched.

The weapons he makes are simply regular weapons. When you break a corpus block of his he drops regular weapons.

I still think his attacks following exactly same effects as magic from Arena Mode, being called as magical, and on the top of this having access to magical coins is a firm enough indicator for estimating him as magical, but this is just my opinion and I'm not going to pretend that it is something what is 100% reliable and everyone should agree.

I suppose it's at best a possibly rating for something he just really doesn't use. He has a lot more evidence that his stuff is dissonance, considering it matches up with other dissonance user abilities.

 

[Employe]

Is there an actual clip of him flying? Because the clip you used is him falling, not flying. flight looks a lot different in Project Nexus than what you posted for Crackpot.

He seems to perfom a sort of fly or levitation and I doubt there are platforms above his head, but who knows? He doesn't use it in the actual combat, so doesn't really matter, lmao

 

[Comiphorous]

He seems to perfom a sort of fly or levitation and I doubt there are platforms above his head, but who knows? He doesn't use it in the actual combat, so doesn't really matter, lmao

He drops down from the same place Gestalt does after his boss fight, so i assume it's some sort of pipe system above him.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Guys, should we tell him about what abilities dissonant has or how rabid and actually efficient his teleports?

So NOW you agree it's dissonance???

And teleporting around isn't something new to many verses lol

 

[Employe]

So NOW you agree it's dissonance???

And teleporting around isn't something new to many verses lol

Mate, it doesn't even matter altogether, both dissonant and Thauma are busted, dissonant arguably more so

 

[Employe]

And his teleports are genuinely pain in ass to avoid and tagg

 

[DaReaperMan]

Mate, it doesn't even matter altogether, both dissonant and Thauma are busted, dissonant arguably more so

Dissonance actually has abilities on its hadokens, magic is only the hadoken!

 

[Comiphorous]

Okay to summarize both sides i suppose;

Magic Crackpot:
*Collects Boon Tokens, used by the arena mode player to use magic
*Description states he uses "Magical attacks"
*Attacks appear to look the same as other magic users

Dissonance Crackpot:
*Is apart of the Fanatic faction, a faction that were all exposed to dissonance and went crazy
*Talks a lot about The Other Place, another typical sign of Dissonance poisoning
*Resurrects after his death to Gestalt, something tricky did in MC3 due to dissonance
*Teleports, something mostly only dissonance users can do

 

[Employe]

Okay to summarize both sides i suppose;

Magic Crackpot:
*Collects Boon Tokens, used by the arena mode player to use magic
*Description states he uses "Magical attacks"
*Attacks appear to look the same as other magic users

Dissonance Crackpot:
*Is apart of the Fanatic faction, a faction that were all exposed to dissonance and went crazy
*Talks a lot about The Other Place, another typical sign of Dissonance poisoning
*Resurrects after his death to Gestalt, something tricky did in MC3 due to dissonance
*Teleports, something mostly only dissonance users can do

What if he was subjected to both dissonant and magic? Is this possible?

 

[Comiphorous]

What if he was subjected to both dissonant and magic? Is this possible?

I think having him be dissonant radiated, with a possibly rating of him using magic is fine. If we were to do that, I don’t want Crackpot used for evidence for hax for madness’ magic for obvious reasons.

 

[Employe]

I think having him be dissonant radiated, with a possibly rating of him using magic is fine. If we were to do that, I don’t want Crackpot used for evidence for hax for madness’ magic for obvious reasons.

Fair

 

[Doorthatcloses]

I found out this about Crackpot's "magic"

 

[Comiphorous]

I found out this about Crackpot's "magic"

Nobody here believes he’s got magic for a second

Employe getting cooked out here let the man cook

 

[Doorthatcloses]

Nobody here believes he’s got magic for a second

Employe getting cooked out here let the man cook

Hold on did my image show up? I posted one but it didn't appear for me

 

[Employe]

Hold on did my image show up? I posted one but it didn't appear for me

Nothing appeared to us

 

[Doorthatcloses]

Nothing appeared to us

I think i fixed it now

 

[Employe]

I found out this about Crackpot's "magic"

Of course he doesn't outright tell anything, but mentions that Gambler is "unique" at how he handles coins and added that they might be just rare currency
But when it comes to Crackpot being magical he only responds "idk"

 

[Employe]

Yeah, he basically told nothing (Classic Krinkels)

 

[Doorthatcloses]

Of course he doesn't outright tell anything, but mentions that Gambler is "unique" at how he handles coins and added that they might be just rare currency
But when it comes to Crackpot being magical he only responds "idk"

Yeah, he basically told nothing (Classic Krinkels)

I think it's intentionally meant to be ambiguous

 

[Comiphorous]

Yeah, he basically told nothing (Classic Krinkels)

Ever since he was asked what happened to the sun he’ll never answer a question directly ever again gotta make them watch the series

 

[Employe]

I think it's intentionally meant to be ambiguous

This is obviously what he does

 

[Comiphorous]

With Phobos’ page almost done being revamped, I’m going to move on to Jesus’

He’s gonna be separated into two keys, Pre-Halo and Post-Halo, as I’m like 99% he gets stronger with the halo. Or I could be talking out of my ass here, I’ll have to rewatch/replay classic project nexus.

 

[Comiphorous]

Just a fun what-if. I'm not actually using this lol. if i were, i'd use the strength stat as a base, not the overall level.

What if madness combat used project nexus stats for scaling?

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Comiphorous]

I was looking through crackpot content some more, and i'm starting to realize that Crackpot was always weird, and supposed dissonance really didn't change much about him.

Also, i was wrong about the fanatics, fanatics were never exposed to dissonance, their insanity just kinda happens. probably due to Crackpot's cult shenanigans.

Employe's magic for crackpot is sounding a bit more solid lowkey. Doesn't change he really never uses any of the haxes of magic, but i digress.