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What's this? Being on topic? We don't do that anymore on this thread!
But yes.
But yes.
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Lucifer Morningstar (DC) vs Bernkastel (Umineko)
- Thread starter YasinRap
- Start date
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"Orion I am dead sure you have no idea what you are talking about.
" This isn't to mention that Lucifer and Presence got nerfed because one Speedy Boi missed his mommy and messed with the continuum, so Bern could just use her time/plot/cauality/dimension manipulation to nerf everything and have fun. "
Flashpoint didn't effect Vertigo LOOOOOOOOOL
Flashpoint itself was already just a plan by the Presence, everything that happens in Creation is. And by the time of flashpoint Lucifer was already weakened so not only does this not matter, but Lucifer himself never even mentions it. And there is no retcon that was noticable after Flashpoint.
He is 1-A, Son, How are you going to time hax a 1-A who is above the concepts of space time and infinity?
"Plot" Lucifer is already above the effects of Death of the Endless who will eventually claim the Plot Parliament which created every narrative and story in DC.
" inb4 Writer and Overmonitor. Writer got killed by a Rhino when he showed up in person. Overmontor is Featless. "
Look at his Typewriter, he wrote his own death. Like how he wrote Booster Gold throwing him out of a window, yet appearing just fine moments after. saying "I made you do that."
You can't argue that he is actually getting harmed by these events as
1. He has already shown to be uneffected by them.
2. The Writer being itself is a collection of every other Writer, they obviously would use Aspects generally, this wouldn't downgrade him at all.
"Overmonitor is featless"
>beings like Lucifer where infintismal nonexistent fiction in comparison to the Overvoid.
Idek man, he does have some neat scaling lol.
" Fanon Cthulhu: A nigh Omni God. "
wat
" Mythos Cthulhu: Gets taken down by getting a ship ramming into him. Just a psychic Kaiju" Cthulhu regenerated after that, the sailor was droven insane and died, the stars weren't in alingement so Cthulhu was weakend. Cthulhu has already created higher dimensional Constructs and actually has 1-A feats if we include the EU.
"
Mythos Nyarlathotep: An immoral trickster with millions of faces that messes with people all the time.
Suggverse Nyarlathotep: A reality warper that messes with all of reality.
"
I feel like you cherrypick the nature of Nyarlathotep and completely ignore the cosmic role he actually plays, such as his aspects being Messageners of Azathoth, Him Being a Outer God, etc.
Suggsverse is entirely based off Lionel Suggs being pissy about people not taking him seriously in old threads and nobody taking his "Above Omnipotence" thing seriously, The entire scaling and point of the series is completely butchered, Lionel Suggs himself actually confirmed he has a God complex in a interview.
"
CM Azathoth is Featless. Everything that exists is his "Dream.", and that's it. "
You debunked your point in the same statement later. "That's it." Yes because viewing a verse with a High 1-A And a Countless amount of 1-As isn't impressive.
Refer tothis blog andmy post.
Also Refer to this https://lovecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Cano
Canon in The Mythos isn't just anything anybody writes regarding the Mythos, What we define as Canon is based off the books Lovecraft actually wrote. Anything Else falls under the EU, which is essentially non-canon depending on the writer. Mythos influenced work is completely seperate and made by a completely different company and is published as work different than that of Lovecrafts. Here, This Graph was made by people who actually read more than dozens of Lovecraft's work. Unless you can actually put up a argument, and not abuse a genetic fallacy, i can use this graph.
Also what, lmao. Altair doesn't have the rights to all of fiction, you'd have to prove she has rights to every supposed story to prove that she infact was effecting both cosmologies, we already has this problem with Marvel and it was completely denied, so good luck trying to convince anyone.
shame
" This isn't to mention that Lucifer and Presence got nerfed because one Speedy Boi missed his mommy and messed with the continuum, so Bern could just use her time/plot/cauality/dimension manipulation to nerf everything and have fun. "
Flashpoint didn't effect Vertigo LOOOOOOOOOL
Flashpoint itself was already just a plan by the Presence, everything that happens in Creation is. And by the time of flashpoint Lucifer was already weakened so not only does this not matter, but Lucifer himself never even mentions it. And there is no retcon that was noticable after Flashpoint.
He is 1-A, Son, How are you going to time hax a 1-A who is above the concepts of space time and infinity?
"Plot" Lucifer is already above the effects of Death of the Endless who will eventually claim the Plot Parliament which created every narrative and story in DC.
" inb4 Writer and Overmonitor. Writer got killed by a Rhino when he showed up in person. Overmontor is Featless. "
Look at his Typewriter, he wrote his own death. Like how he wrote Booster Gold throwing him out of a window, yet appearing just fine moments after. saying "I made you do that."
You can't argue that he is actually getting harmed by these events as
1. He has already shown to be uneffected by them.
2. The Writer being itself is a collection of every other Writer, they obviously would use Aspects generally, this wouldn't downgrade him at all.
"Overmonitor is featless"
>beings like Lucifer where infintismal nonexistent fiction in comparison to the Overvoid.
Idek man, he does have some neat scaling lol.
" Fanon Cthulhu: A nigh Omni God. "
wat
" Mythos Cthulhu: Gets taken down by getting a ship ramming into him. Just a psychic Kaiju" Cthulhu regenerated after that, the sailor was droven insane and died, the stars weren't in alingement so Cthulhu was weakend. Cthulhu has already created higher dimensional Constructs and actually has 1-A feats if we include the EU.
"
Mythos Nyarlathotep: An immoral trickster with millions of faces that messes with people all the time.
Suggverse Nyarlathotep: A reality warper that messes with all of reality.
"
I feel like you cherrypick the nature of Nyarlathotep and completely ignore the cosmic role he actually plays, such as his aspects being Messageners of Azathoth, Him Being a Outer God, etc.
Suggsverse is entirely based off Lionel Suggs being pissy about people not taking him seriously in old threads and nobody taking his "Above Omnipotence" thing seriously, The entire scaling and point of the series is completely butchered, Lionel Suggs himself actually confirmed he has a God complex in a interview.
"
CM Azathoth is Featless. Everything that exists is his "Dream.", and that's it. "
You debunked your point in the same statement later. "That's it." Yes because viewing a verse with a High 1-A And a Countless amount of 1-As isn't impressive.
Refer tothis blog andmy post.
Also Refer to this https://lovecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Cano
Canon in The Mythos isn't just anything anybody writes regarding the Mythos, What we define as Canon is based off the books Lovecraft actually wrote. Anything Else falls under the EU, which is essentially non-canon depending on the writer. Mythos influenced work is completely seperate and made by a completely different company and is published as work different than that of Lovecrafts. Here, This Graph was made by people who actually read more than dozens of Lovecraft's work. Unless you can actually put up a argument, and not abuse a genetic fallacy, i can use this graph.
Also what, lmao. Altair doesn't have the rights to all of fiction, you'd have to prove she has rights to every supposed story to prove that she infact was effecting both cosmologies, we already has this problem with Marvel and it was completely denied, so good luck trying to convince anyone.
shame
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Bern literally haxxed the 1-A Beatrice out of the seventh game lol.
The Presence hasn't even been around forever (Read Sandman) so there is no way everything can be his plan.
The Presence hasn't even been around forever (Read Sandman) so there is no way everything can be his plan.
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Thanks for better explaining then I did Hykuu.
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Ren's time hax also enveloped the Throne which is 1-A, unless Bernkastel's time hax has shown to do the same, it wouldn't work
Also @Orion do you unironically thought Flashpoint or any DC retcons had any effect whatsoever on Vertigo's top tier guys? Lol
Also @Orion do you unironically thought Flashpoint or any DC retcons had any effect whatsoever on Vertigo's top tier guys? Lol
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What in gods name did i just read.
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Um, @Hy, I think Witch was talking about Orion's ignorant statement
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You talking anout the Altair and Mythos stuff from Orion?First Witch said:
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Im naturally reffering to the nonsense Orion wrote.
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Ah makes sense.
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https://imgur.com/a/tEYtk8
Nonsense is my specialty, and I could receive no honour greater than to have "What in God's name did I just read?" said of something I wrote.
But now, to debunk what has been said.
One: The Presence is expressly stated not to be as great as you claim by himself, WoG
, and shown not to be by the story in Sandman https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l57z8mFuCV1qag189.jpgThis isn't even arcan info, it's right from his page here.
Two: Beings like Azathoth are basically load bearing walls for reality. He has no real known abilities in combat, so I wouldn't say he's omni/would win any fight. You might now be able to punch out a massive wall, but it won't do anything to you, either. That does not mean the mythos is not strong, which it is, but saying something is "Strongest universe ever" as an argument isn't a good one. *cough* Especially on a Vertigo/Umineko thread *cough*
Three: Above is my view on featless omnis. Unless they've proven that they actually can beat X characters in a fight, I won't buy it, since it's simply an unsubstantiated claim. This includes Overvoid. Despite all his tiering, we don't know how powerful he really is, which means we also don't know how powerful he really isn't. We shouldn't just say he's omni, because a character has to prove they're strong in order for the title to mean anything.
Four: Luckily enough for me, there's enough for me to call Altair 1-A without the Lovecraftian stuff.
Five: The writer had block the moment the Rhino charged him, and got killed because he forgot to do anything. But aside from his strength of runnin/making Dc, I'm not sure how that would save him from a threat which would blow it up.
Six: Bernkastel didn't simply time hax, yes, she shoved dimensions on top of the catbox, created new possibilities, and chose the ones she liked to be real. That's why I said Time/Dimension/Causality/Probability Hax, not just Time Hax.
Seven: WTC's tiering and powerscaling does ad up, with Bern doing that much damage, as I showed in my earlier post.
Eight: Back to the Lucifer vs Bernkastel stuff this thread was initially about before I wandered in, Bern simply does too much damage by obliderating the books, and has too high durability via tanking the same damage, to be really compared to him.
I do believe that I have said enough for a post, so adieu, for the moment.
Nonsense is my specialty, and I could receive no honour greater than to have "What in God's name did I just read?" said of something I wrote.
But now, to debunk what has been said.
One: The Presence is expressly stated not to be as great as you claim by himself, WoG
Two: Beings like Azathoth are basically load bearing walls for reality. He has no real known abilities in combat, so I wouldn't say he's omni/would win any fight. You might now be able to punch out a massive wall, but it won't do anything to you, either. That does not mean the mythos is not strong, which it is, but saying something is "Strongest universe ever" as an argument isn't a good one. *cough* Especially on a Vertigo/Umineko thread *cough*
Three: Above is my view on featless omnis. Unless they've proven that they actually can beat X characters in a fight, I won't buy it, since it's simply an unsubstantiated claim. This includes Overvoid. Despite all his tiering, we don't know how powerful he really is, which means we also don't know how powerful he really isn't. We shouldn't just say he's omni, because a character has to prove they're strong in order for the title to mean anything.
Four: Luckily enough for me, there's enough for me to call Altair 1-A without the Lovecraftian stuff.
Five: The writer had block the moment the Rhino charged him, and got killed because he forgot to do anything. But aside from his strength of runnin/making Dc, I'm not sure how that would save him from a threat which would blow it up.
Six: Bernkastel didn't simply time hax, yes, she shoved dimensions on top of the catbox, created new possibilities, and chose the ones she liked to be real. That's why I said Time/Dimension/Causality/Probability Hax, not just Time Hax.
Seven: WTC's tiering and powerscaling does ad up, with Bern doing that much damage, as I showed in my earlier post.
Eight: Back to the Lucifer vs Bernkastel stuff this thread was initially about before I wandered in, Bern simply does too much damage by obliderating the books, and has too high durability via tanking the same damage, to be really compared to him.
I do believe that I have said enough for a post, so adieu, for the moment.
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Then, instead of discussing this here... why don't you make a thread for a revision? But that would lead to be rejected.
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I did but at this point just let let the revision be shot down.Hykuu said:
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