Lucifer Key Inconsistency

[Kahndaq_Lord]

We have Depowered Lucifer at Low 2-C. But here is the issue, this is contradicted by the abilities listed on his profile.

While he is listed at Low 2-C when depowered, his abilities are not separated by this key. This might lead to some misunderstandings like Depowered Lucifer having True Godly Regenerationn and Transduality, so we should separate his abilities through these keys as well.

 

[RKGenki]

I think this issue was brought up more than once in the past

Anyway I agree, but you should contact someone knowledgeable on DC like Matt or Sandman so they can properly divide his P&A section

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I literally made a thread about this a month ago, but it went nowhere, a note was suppossed to have been added that lucifer's abilities when depowered are unknown, but never happened.

 

[Kahndaq_Lord]

Do we wait for Matt and Sandman to come in again or?

 

[GalaxianAegis]

I've created a respect thread before that had some abilities separated, but he does have a far different arsenal.

 

[Antvasima]

I could open the Lucifer page for editing again if you wish, but it is best if you ask Sandman31 first.

 

[Sandman31]

@GalaxianAegis

Well you can post it here, but aside from abilities I still have another issue with Lucifer.

His Low 2-C rating and those whom he scales to

>Stood alongside Beelzebub and Lucifer as the three most powerful demons in Hell, and is therefore far above Choronzo)

Well, I dont think Chroronzon is Universe level. If we're basing his Universe level rating from his poetry battle with Dream where he said that he's "the end of universes, gods, worlds"

I dont think we should take that literally, there's definitely some reality warping going on but the battle is a poetry battle and is more metaphorical than literal

>Far above all the deities depicted in the Season of Mists storyline, including Odi.

We know that the false Asgard/ragnarok simulation that appeared in the Last Days of the Justice Society was created by Odin, but where did it say that it was a universe? I mean it could only be a dimension of unknown size, Odin literally called it "my little world "

>His true form is depicted as its ow universe

Azazel certainly has a dimension inside him, or is a sentient dimension but we dont really have a confirmation of its size. I also dont think its ever been called a universe

 

[Antvasima]

Well, feel free to adjust the Lucifer page accordingly if you wish.

 

[Sandman31]

Not just Lucifer, also Odi and Azazel

Odin made the Ragnarok simulation, a dimension of unknown size (was it ever said to be universe size?)

Azazel ls a iiving void/dimension, also of unknown size

I dont think Choronzon is universal because his poetry match with Dream is more metaphorical than literal

 

[Sandman31]

There's also the question of what Depowered Lucifer even is. The one without the Morningstar power or the one without wings? or both?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So unknown statistics for all of them then? Or would Odin scale from true form Darkseid?

Anyway, should I unlock the pages for you?

 

[Sandman31]

Well, I would like to wait for more input

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

I made this RT a while ago, and I based quite a bit of it on the profile we already have here on the wiki. Some of it would be outdated, but there are usable feats and information here.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1St3ZH5Y_P5iXzjv4BCjL6zChXlzZY2Nqw4j-uWfmeXI/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Sandman31]

Looks good

But I wouldnt count the feat that heppened in Sandman. There seemse to be a soft retcon that happened. Lucifer in Sandman, after cutting off his wings doesnt seem to be depowered, he even said to Remiel that even though he abdicated that doesnt mean his powers were gone as well

Though I'll argue that Lucifer burning a page from Destiny's Book doesnt means he's immune to Fate manip. He actually made a bet with Destiny, he burned a page from his Book saying that they're now both in the dark only to discover that him burning a page from Destiny's Book is still a part of Destiny's Book. It make sense, in the same issue the Book of Destiny was stated to be based on the Script made by the Presence and that Destiny is a side effect of the Presence's deterministic approach. So unless you can escape the Plan of the Presence, there's no escaping Destiny

 

[Sandman31]

@Ant

I think we should place them as "Unknown" for now until we have proof that they are indeed universal

Also, if Odin scales to Darkseid. I dont know

Asgard is located in Skyland which is also where Olympus is located

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with if you place the characters at unknown statistics, if you think that is best.

So should I unlock the following pages?

Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics)

Odin (DC Comics)

Azazel (DC Comics)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So is this revision ever going to happen?

 

[Antvasima]

I don't know. It depends on if Sandman is willing to handle it.

 

[GalaxianAegis]

I think at the moment we don't have enough information to properly tier them, so Sandman's suggestion was to rate them as Unknown.

 

[Antvasima]

It is possible that Sandman31's notifications do not work for this thread, so I would appreciate if somebody could ask him to comment again via his message wall.

 

[Warren_Valion]

It is possible that Sandman31's notifications do not work for this thread, so I would appreciate if somebody could ask him to comment again via his message wall.

I have done so.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Thank you.

My pleasure to be of service.

 

[Sandman31]

Yeah, I think they should be unknown for now

 

[Antvasima]

@Sandman31

Are you willing to perform the changes?

 

[Sandman31]

Ok

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks. I will unlock the following pages:

Lucifer Morningstar (DC Comics)

Odin (DC Comics)

Azazel (DC Comics)

Tell me here when you are done, and about if you need any other character profiles unlocked.

 

[Sandman31]

Ok, I'm done

Can you also unlock this profile:

Cestis

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will unlock it.

 

[Antvasima]

As usual, tell me here when you are done.

 

[Sandman31]

Done

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. Should we close this thread then?