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Scaling off of Alduin, who Paarthurnax heavily implies is still capable of ending current kalpa, should Dovahkiin be upgraded from 6-C to Low 2-C for being able to defeat Alduin?
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Low 2-C Dragonborn?
- Thread starter SheevShezarrine
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- the elder scrolls
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The Dragonborn could only defeat Alduin with Dragonrend which turnes him into "mortal", so no.
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I agree with Gwyn. That was only like the Island level of Alduin.
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All Dragonrend do is forcing dragon to land by forcing the concept of mortality to them that makes them unable to fly. It's even said in the shout description.
Dovahkii: "The next world will have to take care of itself."
Paarthurnax: "Paaz. A fair answer. Ro fus, maybe you only balance the forces that work to quicken the end of this world. Even we who ride the currents of Time cannot see past Time's end, Wuldsetiid los tahrodiis. Those who try to hasten the end, may delay it. Those who work to delay the end, may bring it closer."
Paarthunax, who is specially attuned to the flow of time (and may even be able to travel it, depending on how you interpret that statement) cannot see past Alduin destroying the world and time
The idea that Alduin is weakened in Skyrim was created when the fandom tried to make sense how did Alduin became so weak in the game while in his Seven Fights of Aldudagga he's so strong. There's no conversation that implied Alduin is weakened. In fact, it's the complete opposite, MK even stated that Akatosh sent the Dovahkiin because Akatosh didn't want the current kalpa to end, indicating that Alduin have full capabillity to destroy the current kalpa at the time of Skyrim.
"Don't forget that gods can be shaped by the mythopoeic forces of the mantlers-- so Tosh Raka could be an Akaviri avatar of Akatosh with grudge against his mirror-brother in Cyrodiil. Just like Akatosh-as-we-usually-know-him could time-scheme against his mirror-brother of the Nords, Alduin, to keep the present kalpa-- perhaps his favorite-- from being eaten."
Notice all the clouds. - Michael Kirkbride
"When you consider a place like Tamriel, sometimes it's best to take titles literally. Alduin is the World-Eater. It's not going to be "the end of all *life* as we know it, "leaving a barren wasteland of Earthbone dirt... it's going to be the whole of Nirn inside his mighty gullet."
"None shall survive" has been a calling card for awhile, but that was only a hint to the more extensive "Nothing will survive."
"Unless, of course, there's a loophole. Say, something like the someone called the Dovakhiin happening to show up..."born under uncertain stars to uncertain parents." (An aside for extra credit: what in the Aurbis makes the Prisoner such a powerful mythic figure?)"
- Michael Krikbride
Basically, there's no "Denying his role as World-Eater" Alduin, that version is just fanmade, will always be fanmade unless there's in-game conversation about it. There's only "Seven Fights of Aldudagga" Alduin (which is non-canon) and Skyrim Alduin.
By the way, as far as i can remember ,eating a kalpa is the same as resetting the entirety of Aurbis, which also include the entirety of Oblivion. And iirc, there's an infinite realm of Oblivion with infinite possibilities, isn't that 2-A feat?
Dovahkii: "The next world will have to take care of itself."
Paarthurnax: "Paaz. A fair answer. Ro fus, maybe you only balance the forces that work to quicken the end of this world. Even we who ride the currents of Time cannot see past Time's end, Wuldsetiid los tahrodiis. Those who try to hasten the end, may delay it. Those who work to delay the end, may bring it closer."
Paarthunax, who is specially attuned to the flow of time (and may even be able to travel it, depending on how you interpret that statement) cannot see past Alduin destroying the world and time
The idea that Alduin is weakened in Skyrim was created when the fandom tried to make sense how did Alduin became so weak in the game while in his Seven Fights of Aldudagga he's so strong. There's no conversation that implied Alduin is weakened. In fact, it's the complete opposite, MK even stated that Akatosh sent the Dovahkiin because Akatosh didn't want the current kalpa to end, indicating that Alduin have full capabillity to destroy the current kalpa at the time of Skyrim.
"Don't forget that gods can be shaped by the mythopoeic forces of the mantlers-- so Tosh Raka could be an Akaviri avatar of Akatosh with grudge against his mirror-brother in Cyrodiil. Just like Akatosh-as-we-usually-know-him could time-scheme against his mirror-brother of the Nords, Alduin, to keep the present kalpa-- perhaps his favorite-- from being eaten."
Notice all the clouds. - Michael Kirkbride
"When you consider a place like Tamriel, sometimes it's best to take titles literally. Alduin is the World-Eater. It's not going to be "the end of all *life* as we know it, "leaving a barren wasteland of Earthbone dirt... it's going to be the whole of Nirn inside his mighty gullet."
"None shall survive" has been a calling card for awhile, but that was only a hint to the more extensive "Nothing will survive."
"Unless, of course, there's a loophole. Say, something like the someone called the Dovakhiin happening to show up..."born under uncertain stars to uncertain parents." (An aside for extra credit: what in the Aurbis makes the Prisoner such a powerful mythic figure?)"
- Michael Krikbride
Basically, there's no "Denying his role as World-Eater" Alduin, that version is just fanmade, will always be fanmade unless there's in-game conversation about it. There's only "Seven Fights of Aldudagga" Alduin (which is non-canon) and Skyrim Alduin.
By the way, as far as i can remember ,eating a kalpa is the same as resetting the entirety of Aurbis, which also include the entirety of Oblivion. And iirc, there's an infinite realm of Oblivion with infinite possibilities, isn't that 2-A feat?
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We don't know what kalpas are. We don't know what they affect. I'm of the mind that they only affect Mundus as they seem tied to convention, also we know the laws of the time dragon do not affect Oblivion and I don't see any reason Alduin would exceed Aka in this regard. If Alduin did eat the entire Aurbis I would expect greater fanfare from the Aedra, the Daedra and the Magna Ge and yet only the mortals seemed to care in Skyrim and even then, only some of them xD
MK's works and thoughts aren't exactly solid canon either and that's fine if we are just talking about the lore for the sake of talking about the lore but when it comes to battle boards we should try to stick to official works put out by Bethesda. And the fact of the matter is that Alduin is just not all that impressive in the game, we can try to explain it with all the conjecture in the world but it's still just conjecture. In any case MK only confirmed that Alduin eats Nirn as far as I'm aware, not anything beyond.
MK's works and thoughts aren't exactly solid canon either and that's fine if we are just talking about the lore for the sake of talking about the lore but when it comes to battle boards we should try to stick to official works put out by Bethesda. And the fact of the matter is that Alduin is just not all that impressive in the game, we can try to explain it with all the conjecture in the world but it's still just conjecture. In any case MK only confirmed that Alduin eats Nirn as far as I'm aware, not anything beyond.
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Kalpa is exacty what Paarthunax talk about. The cycle of time. In Sermon 28, Vivec recalled that Molag Bal used to be the prince of Dreugh, and in the previous kalpa, Umaril's father was known as the World-River god. There's a possibilities that it also affect Oblivion. Even if it only affect Mundus, that still low 2-C feat.
It's no conjecture if Paarthunax said that Alduin wil destroy time. The reason he didn't look impressive is because Bethesda suck at making boss fight, Alduin already done this when he devoured Umaril's father and he will do it again if you don't stop him, that's why Paarthunax start asking all of those questions to you, because he knew Alduin's capability
It's no conjecture if Paarthunax said that Alduin wil destroy time. The reason he didn't look impressive is because Bethesda suck at making boss fight, Alduin already done this when he devoured Umaril's father and he will do it again if you don't stop him, that's why Paarthunax start asking all of those questions to you, because he knew Alduin's capability
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I meant more that we don't know what kalpas work and what they affect, I probably phrased it poorly in my comment.
Currently Alduin already has the 2-C rating for reseting kalpas. Since we don't have any information on whether or not it affects anything beyond he caps out there. Just eating Mundus might be a 2-A feat if Alduin eats the divines and also because Mundus has parallel worlds... but again we don't really know enough to say.
Oblivion and Aetherius are already beyond time... so if kalpas are JUST cycles of time they wouldn't affect them anyway.
Currently Alduin already has the 2-C rating for reseting kalpas. Since we don't have any information on whether or not it affects anything beyond he caps out there. Just eating Mundus might be a 2-A feat if Alduin eats the divines and also because Mundus has parallel worlds... but again we don't really know enough to say.
Oblivion and Aetherius are already beyond time... so if kalpas are JUST cycles of time they wouldn't affect them anyway.
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Oh, i though his rating was still 5-B LOL.
I do agree that we don't know how kalpa works, but what certain is that Alduin is the one that end it and like Paarthunax said, the new world or Mundus can only be born if the present were destroyed. And there's no in-game reference that implied Alduin was weakened at the time of Skyrim. So i still think Dovahkiin should be upgraded to low 2-C
Yeah, looks like i forgot to add that i actually agree that kalpa only affect Mundus.
I do agree that we don't know how kalpa works, but what certain is that Alduin is the one that end it and like Paarthunax said, the new world or Mundus can only be born if the present were destroyed. And there's no in-game reference that implied Alduin was weakened at the time of Skyrim. So i still think Dovahkiin should be upgraded to low 2-C
Yeah, looks like i forgot to add that i actually agree that kalpa only affect Mundus.
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2-C LDB makes no sense. This is a 2-C character, someone who has actually shown they can destroy multiple universes. Are you saying the LDB can do this? Or go against them? That's ridicoulous.
LDB is just some guy who swings a sword around and makes some fireballs at the end of the day.
LDB is just some guy who swings a sword around and makes some fireballs at the end of the day.
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Not, 2-C, but low 2-C. The difference is huge.
Why it is ridiculous? If the lore make sense and there's nothing indicating that Alduin was weakened at the time of Skyrim, why is it ridiculous? He defeat Alduin in open battle, and then he chaseD Alduin to Sovngarde and then defeat him there too, the same Alduin that devoured Umaril's father and then proceed to consume the entire kalpa and maybe also tranformed the previous Prince Dreugh to Molag Bal? what's so ridiculous about that?
Why it is ridiculous? If the lore make sense and there's nothing indicating that Alduin was weakened at the time of Skyrim, why is it ridiculous? He defeat Alduin in open battle, and then he chaseD Alduin to Sovngarde and then defeat him there too, the same Alduin that devoured Umaril's father and then proceed to consume the entire kalpa and maybe also tranformed the previous Prince Dreugh to Molag Bal? what's so ridiculous about that?
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Low 2-C is crazy too. The LDB is not universal, not even close. I feel certain about this. That's never been implied by Bethesda.
They only defeated Alduin because of dragonrend which is also known as Alduin's bane, you literally can't do damage to Alduin without using this and because they are a mythic hero with the power of prophecy on their side.
I would argue Alduin is NOT universal before I would consider the LDB to be low 2-C. There comes a point where you must take a step back and look at what we see in the game, who in their right mind is going to look at that and consider the LDB universal.
They only defeated Alduin because of dragonrend which is also known as Alduin's bane, you literally can't do damage to Alduin without using this and because they are a mythic hero with the power of prophecy on their side.
I would argue Alduin is NOT universal before I would consider the LDB to be low 2-C. There comes a point where you must take a step back and look at what we see in the game, who in their right mind is going to look at that and consider the LDB universal.
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It's Alduin's Bane because of what? Does the shout ever implied that it rob Alduin's divinity? You would expect at least one character to talk about such effect, but not one of them, not Esbern, Arngeir or Paarthunax, not even the heroes that created it. It's more likely be used to give Dragonrend some form of importance in the main storyline. If you can just wreck Alduin from afar with your 10000 damage Nightingale Bow, then there's really no meaning to finding Dragonrend
No, most of the time it only implied that the shout forces Alduin to land, be it shout description that said "Your voice lashes out at a dragon's very soul, forcing the beast to land" or Gormalith saying that he can wreck Alduin when she brings him down ("Once we bring him dow, I promise I will have his head.") Indicating that the shout specifically used to bring Alduin down (feel free to correct me). Heck, i can make the same argument as you by saying that Dragonrend is called Alduin's Bane because it force Alduin to land, something he will never do if not hit with Dragonrend. and it will make more sense because there's more proof to it.
Anyone that realise gameplay is not reliable. I will show you how unreliable it is:
Dovahkiin withstanding Greybeards' shout, but getting wreck by wolves.
Alduin withstanding Dovahkiin island level thu'um, but can be killed using fists.
Everyone apparently having at least island level durability because Fire Breath doesn't have any effect even on bandit.
Greybeards can be defeated by bandits when they can shake the world with just their words, .
How is that better than using lore?
Anyway, in Indonesia, this is already around 21:18, so i will respond tomorrow
No, most of the time it only implied that the shout forces Alduin to land, be it shout description that said "Your voice lashes out at a dragon's very soul, forcing the beast to land" or Gormalith saying that he can wreck Alduin when she brings him down ("Once we bring him dow, I promise I will have his head.") Indicating that the shout specifically used to bring Alduin down (feel free to correct me). Heck, i can make the same argument as you by saying that Dragonrend is called Alduin's Bane because it force Alduin to land, something he will never do if not hit with Dragonrend. and it will make more sense because there's more proof to it.
Anyone that realise gameplay is not reliable. I will show you how unreliable it is:
Dovahkiin withstanding Greybeards' shout, but getting wreck by wolves.
Alduin withstanding Dovahkiin island level thu'um, but can be killed using fists.
Everyone apparently having at least island level durability because Fire Breath doesn't have any effect even on bandit.
Greybeards can be defeated by bandits when they can shake the world with just their words, .
How is that better than using lore?
Anyway, in Indonesia, this is already around 21:18, so i will respond tomorrow
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I don't think you understand
If someone destroys a universe but has trouble erasing a city, THEY ARE STILL UNIVERSAL. Them getting beat up by wolves is called game mechanics and coding
I edited in the Universal+ upgrade myself. I spent nearly 3 days searching up in what a Kalpa was, how it affects things, how big it is, and whatever the hell Alduin does to it. All I could find was it was the universe and its surrounding timeline.
If there's something about him eating the Aurbis, I'll go look for it myself. As far as I know, he eats a universe.
Nothing more, nothing less.
If someone destroys a universe but has trouble erasing a city, THEY ARE STILL UNIVERSAL. Them getting beat up by wolves is called game mechanics and coding
I edited in the Universal+ upgrade myself. I spent nearly 3 days searching up in what a Kalpa was, how it affects things, how big it is, and whatever the hell Alduin does to it. All I could find was it was the universe and its surrounding timeline.
If there's something about him eating the Aurbis, I'll go look for it myself. As far as I know, he eats a universe.
Nothing more, nothing less.
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