Low 1-C question.

[ProfectusInfinity]

From what I understand, there's a construct in Dragon Ball Heroes that's been argued as low 1-C. I'll give a brief description of it now.

The crack of time contains infinite 4-dimensional timelines in the form of small crystals. The destruction of the crystals is consistently juxtaposed with statements about timelines or the very distortion of time and space. The crystals display images of events across time too. The crack of time is stated to contain non-existent history. To reach prison planet, the sky is fractured to create a crystalline rupture revealing a space with endless crystals. It's directly called a space between dimensions. It's said to be separated yet adjoined to all dimensions.

It's a contruct that transcends time. The crack of time, where Mechikabura was sealed, was stated to be a space beyond time. The fight against Demigra in the crack of time was called an adventure beyond time and space. The battles there are stated to take place in super-dimensional space and hyperdimensional space multiple times. Reaching it was described as an act of transcending time and space. It's said to be separated from the dimension of time. "Time" is also referred to as an axis in Dragon Ball Heroes multiple times.

When entering the crack of time, characters become unquantifiably larger than 4-dimensional constructs. The size of the crystals relative to the characters ranges from somewhat larger than them to noticably smaller than them. The crystals appear as numerous and miniscule as endless stars. Within the crack of time, Fu holds a distorted universe in his hand which is smaller than an arm and monitors an infinitely small Goku from the outside.

It's far beyond the scope of the multiverse itself. After nuking the multiverse, Demigra went to the crack of time to be safe from the destruction. It's stated to be out of reach for the gods and the highest in the dragon ball cosmic hierarchy, with Super Shenron's power explicitly incapable of reaching the universe tree in it, hence it could only destroy the roots that were sapping energy from universes.

Note: The crystals within the crack of time are explicitly timelines and not representations of them. It's verbatim called the space between dimensions, Mira describes himself as "floating between dimensions" while floating past the crystals, and the crystalline rupture scan visually demonstrates timelines to be physical crystals within the crack of time.

The crack of time is currently rated as an above baseline 2-A construct. It was nearly upgraded to possibly low 1-C in this thread, but ultimately voted as remaining above baseline 2-A. I assume this is the reason why:

Q: What is qualitative superiority?​

A: Qualitative superiority, also sometimes called being qualitatively greater, is a term colloquially used to mean that something is superior to an extend that it justifies being on a higher tier of infinity in terms of our Tiering System than the thing they are superior to. That means a character qualitatively superior to the usual spacetime continuum would, for example, be Low Complex Multiverse level (Tier Low 1-C) at the level represented by the R^5. Someone qualitatively superior to that would have the same tier, but on the higher level of infinity represented by the R^6 and someone qualitatively superior to that level would be baseline Complex Multiverse level (Tier 1-C).
In the same vein a space being qualitatively superior to another space, means that destroying that space would land you on a higher level of infinity in the Tiering System than destroying the space it is superior to.
In rough terms it means as much as being "more than countably infinite times greater in power or size".

The reason it is called qualitative superiority is that, instead of quantitative terms such as being 2 times, 100 times or even infinite times more powerful or greater, this type of superiority is typically justified by the nature of the superiority. The most standard case is dimensionality, where a difference in the quality that is dimensionality, implies the necessary quantitative difference. Another typical example is reality-fiction differences. Those are cases like viewing a plane of reality as mere fiction, like for example writing on a sheet of paper or a dream. They are assumed to imply superiority of a similar scale.
Of course, the same levels of superiority can also be reached via sufficiently explicit quantitative statements, such as when cardinalities above countably infinite get involved in a manner that implies a corresponding difference in power/size.

As the idea of "more than countably infinite times greater in power or size" implies, most statements of superiority wouldn't suffice to reach qualitative superiority, even if applied to already being infinitely stronger than the baselines for the level. E.g. being twice, a hundred or even infinite times stronger than a Multiverse level+ character, who already has infinite multiversal strength, would still not be enough to reach qualitative superiority over a multiverse.

In other words, the evidence listed enough proves that the crack of time significantly transcends the multiverse. To prove qualitative transcendence, you'd need:
-A higher plane statement,
-Statement of the crack of time being infinite in size,
-Statement like "the concepts of space-time are irrelevant here,"
Or something similar that proves the crack of time exists at a level where 4-dimensional space-time is essentially "nothing." At least, I assume that's why low 1-C crack of time hasn't been accepted.

However, in reviewing the current statements for the crack of time, something just caught my eye.

So to get this out of the way, the crack of time is straight up 5-D on account of being a space that allows 4-D timelines to be parallel (lines can't be modeled as parallel without 2-D space, planes can't be modeled as parallel without 3-D space, etc). It may not be significantly 5-D enough to be rated as low 1-C, but it's 5-D nonetheless.

Now let's look at another insignificant 5-D space in Dragon Ball: the neutral zone in which the 12 macrocosms are displaced. You could model the neutral zone through the cartesian product of (1,2,3,4,...,12)x(RxRxR)xR where (RxRxR) represents 3 dimensions of space (length*width*depth, X*Y*Z), (RxRxR)xR represents space*time, and (1,2,3,4,...,12) represents the displacement of 12 parallel space-times occupying distinct positions in a 5-D space. Multiversal energy is assumed to pass through the 5-D space, but as such energy has no dimensioned value as it's affecting a countable set of points in the 5th dimension, most multiversal characters aren't rated low 1-C for affecting this space to an insignificant degree.

In fact, let's look at the Dragon Ball Heroes multiverse. There are infinite timelines, for which the cartesian product is (∞)x(RxRxR)xR. You still wouldn't be low 1-C for destroying an infinite multiverse worth of positions in the 5th dimension since we're still working under a countable set with no dimensioned value.

However, there's just one problem...

It's far beyond the scope of the multiverse itself. After nuking the multiverse, Demigra went to the crack of time to be safe from the destruction. It's stated to be out of reach for the gods and the highest in the dragon ball cosmic hierarchy, with Super Shenron's power explicitly incapable of reaching the universe tree in it, hence it could only destroy the roots that were sapping energy from universes.

Multiversal characters are expected to affect the 5-D space between timelines to some degree. However, multiversal+ characters in DBH explicitly don't affect this space as explained above. We even see that most multiversal corruption results in the crystals going down one by one with no visible impact on the crack of time's space. This means the value of multiversal+ power isn't some infintely small quantity in the 5th dimension, but zero.

This means significantly affecting the space of the crack of time requires power beyond infinitely 4-D.

This means [infinite] 4-dimensional space-time is not just trivilialized by the crack of time, but dwarfed infinitely, effectively zero.

Based on my interpretation, would this qualify for a low 1-C degree of qualitative superiority?

 

[TiltedFN]

Yeah the crack of time being the "space between dimensions", dimensions meaning timelines in this case, there being an infinite amount of them should mean it's low 1-C since this space has to be infinite in size to hold a beyond infinite amount of time crystals, which are representations of timelines. Which should satisfy the requirements of qualitative superiority, well at least from what I'm getting here. And by proxy this space would be infinite in size compared to lets say, the neutral zone that holds the twelve universes at the least, so it should be low 1-C minimum if I'm understanding. Also the fact that the neutral space is within a timeline, that gets dwarfed by the infinite crack of time, I don't understand how this isn't low 1-C.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Yeah the crack of time being the "space between dimensions", dimensions meaning timelines in this case, there being an infinite amount of them should mean it's low 1-C since this space has to be infinite in size to hold a beyond infinite amount of time crystals, which are representations of timelines. Which should satisfy the requirements of qualitative superiority, well at least from what I'm getting here. And by proxy this space would be infinite in size compared to lets say, the neutral zone that holds the twelve universes at the least, so it should be low 1-C minimum if I'm understanding. Also the fact that the neutral space is within a timeline, that gets dwarfed by the neutral space, I don't understand how this isn't low 1-C.

Someone on discord actually told me they had plans to propose a low 1-C DBH upgrade on the basis of the multiverse being the summation of infinite neutral zones (insignificant 5-D), so we’ll just have to wait and see since that particular argument has never been used before.

 

[TiltedFN]

Someone on discord actually told me they had plans to propose a low 1-C DBH upgrade on the basis of the multiverse being the summation of infinite neutral zones (insignificant 5-D), so we’ll just have to wait and see since that particular argument has never been used before.

Exactly, I mean like how would you even argue against that? Like the insignificant 5-D neutral zone being dwarfed by one timeline, which are actually an infinite amount of them, which are contained/adjoined by the crack of time which is infinite for being the space between all timelines and connected to all of them, even non existent timelines.

EDIT: Yeah 100 percent, since the heroes multiverse not including the crack of time is infinite, or 2-A, and the crack of time is connected and beyond all of that, classifying as affecting/destroying two 2-A structures, I think it is more than safe to conclude that the heroes multiverse, is infinitely larger than the insignificant 5-D neutral space which still sits under a single timeline btw. There being an infinite amount of them would grant anyone who destroys them all to be low 1-C, 5-D. With the crack of time even being beyond the entire DBH infinite multiverse that is infinitely larger in it's entirety than the neutral space. 5-D.