LOW 1-A/ 1-A BEN 10

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

Here we go

Spoiler: ARGUMENT FOR LOW 1-A GHOST SHIP

We are beings from an incalculable dimension that defies the limits of space and time. A glorious universe unfathomable to a primitive mind such as yours.

And :

My formal denomination and the breadth of my functionality are incomprehensible to a lower life from

The ghost ship universe is stated to be an incalculable universe and immediately afterwards they explain why : it simply defies limits of space and time.
The term "defies the limits of space and time" suggests that it exists beyond all conventional dimensions of space and time, making it fundamentally incalculable. If a structure is beyond all spatiotemporal dimensions, it cannot be measured or quantified using conventional mathematical or physical frameworks.
This is further reinforced by the second quote: if the "breadth of functionality" of its inhabitants is incomprehensible to lower-dimensional beings, it means their existence operates outside the realm of conventional space, time, and physics making it low 1-A.

Now as per last episode of Ben 10 Omniverse, time (and space) "begins" from annihilargh big bang. If the Ghost Ship universe is beyond all spatiotemporality, then time and space never even started there. This directly supports the idea that the Ghost Ship universe is beyond all temporal existence and measurement.
But then how can space beyond which encompasses all these universes (and probably sees spatiotemporal and beyond spatiotemporal universe as same) if it's bounded by time? Of course it is a "void of absolute nothingness" as cleared by this conversation between Paradox, Gwen and Kevin:

Kevin : Where are we? There's nothing on my instruments.
Professor Paradox : Understandable. There's nothing outside either. You see that faint glow in the distance?
Gwen : A star?
Paradox : Actually that is the universe. We're in the space beyond
Gwen : Then what's that?
Paradox : That is the next universe over. I don't like it all the physics are terribly counterintuitive.

This dialogue reveals that Space Beyond is a void of absolute nothingness, where conventional measurement devices fail. Paradox states that different universes have different physical laws, implying that Space Beyond is not governed by any physics at all. Since measurement and physics are confined to universes, Space Beyond is unbounded by physical laws—reinforcing the idea that it exists outside all spatiotemporal structures.
This is further backed up by the script of episode forge of creation also says that space beyond is a void of nothingness. If Space Beyond encompasses both spatiotemporal and beyond-spatiotemporal universes, it must see both as equally insignificant, further proving its transcendence, matching this explaination from BDE page :

A simple example being a realm that is stated to lack space, time and physicality entirely, but is nonetheless shown as being "vaster" than physical reality in some way. Common imagery of this includes the universe as a small object encompassed in a wider backdrop.

So here's the rating it'll grant :
GHOST SHIP UNIVERSE :

Ghost Ship beings belong to a universe that is beyond limits of spacetime making it's vertices impossible to be calculated and functionality of breadth of it's inhabitants incomprehensible to inhabitants of Ben's spatiotemporal annihilarg universe, hence it is completely beyond all measurements of spacetime and is Low 1-A

To support this, I would like to quote this from BDE page :

As mentioned before, by a certain "excess of size," in which an object (Or collection of objects) is simply too large to be a dimensional space in the conventional sense. For instance, the Universe of Sets, which contains all mathematical set-structures, and therefore all spaces in which dimensions are defined, being larger than all such spaces. Characters of this nature are Low 1-A.

SPACE BEYOND:
As Omniversal Force extends infinitely through every reality and realm, so it means that Space Beyond (that is the final layer having Omniversal Force) should also be infinite sized and thus all universes are just infinitesimal constructs within this void of nothingness, so as a conclusion:

Space Beyond is an infinite void of nothingness, encompassing all universes with different types of physics, spatiotemporal ones (like Ben's universe) and even ones that are beyond all spatiotemporality (like ghost ship universe) as infinitesimal constructs. Since physics and spatiotemporality is something shows to be "limited to universes", and spatiotemporality is also a thing of universes that are infinitesimal to it (and even ghost ship universe that is beyond spatiotemporality is infinitesimal part of it) it lacks all types of physicality and spatiotemporality and is thus 1-A.

Due to this quote from BDE page :

However, if they are applied to realms that can be inferred to surpass the very composition of the lower reality (e.g. Realms that are, themselves, non-composite, such as conceptual domains, or often, voids of nothingness), then 1-A is the most appropriate rating for them.

BEN'S ANNIHILARG UNIVERSE :
Ben's annihilarg universe should either get solid 1-B (26D) as there's no dimensionality beyond universal realms so the dimensionality Nalgians mentioned was only inside the universe (and thus only 26 dimensions matter for Ben as any other dimensionality won't be even a part of his universe) or it should get downgraded to 1-C.
FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO KNOW THAT WHY "BEYOND SPACE AND TIME" SHOULD BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY, JUMP TO THIS MESSAGE, AND THE STATMENT FROM GHOST SHIP ISN'T REFEREEING TO HDE AS HIGHER DIMENSIONAL OBJECTS ARE STILL NOT INCALCULABLE AS PER FAQ PAGE

Agree (7) : @Hellformer (with low 1-A ghost ship and 1-B universe), @Celestial_Scaler25 , @Shadowslaya! @Lort15 (with Low 1-A and 1-B) , @LuffyRuffy46307 , @Rosa , @Thetalldevil
Disagree (12) : @OrangeFR , @Da3ggman @StrymULTRA , @Lord_Farquaad69420 , @VeryGoofyToddler2 , @BestMGQScalerEver , @Woomica @Setsuna_tenma , @Robo432343
@HenshinIntervention , @Dark_Soul20189 , @RigelBR7
Neutral (3) : @Hellformer (on 1-A) @Lort15 (on 1-A) @Thetalldevil (on 1-A)

 

[Lort15]

mhmm first comment (following)

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Waiting for more input. Following.
I think an Annhilarrgh Universe is 1B. The Nalgians confirmed 26D all the way back in Alien Force and despite this, Kevin still believed the Universe to be everything.
Agree for now.

 

[Hellformer]

Here we go

Spoiler: ARGUMENT FOR LOW 1-A GHOST SHIP

And :

The ghost ship universe is stated to be an incalculable universe and immediately afterwards they explain why : it simply defies limits of space and time.
Defy can also mean beyond so it means "beyond limits space-time";it is beyond limits of spatiotemporality (and thus beyond all spatiotemporal dimensions) thus it is incalculable. Simply it's a universe that doesn't have any spatiotemporality (due to being beyond it) and is incalculable (not subjected to spatiotemporality or maths) making it low 1-A. This is exactly why functionality of breadth of those beings is incomprehensible to inhabitants of Ben's spatiotemporal universe.

Now as per last episode of Ben 10 Omniverse, time (and space) "begins" from annihilargh big bang and if ghost ship is beyond all spatiotemporality, it means time (and space) never even started in their universe which clearly backs up that it is possible for their universe to be beyond time. But then how can space beyond which encompasses all these universes (and probably sees spatiotemporal and beyond spatiotemporal universe as same) if it's bounded by time? Of course it is a "void of absolute nothingness" as cleared by this conversation between Paradox, Gwen and Kevin:

Distance is the measurement of how far apart two things are or the amount of space between them and tracking is done through many factors including keeping a track of reference point. However, the space beyond exists in such a way that spaceship's instruments were unable to measure any of them and as per statment of Paradox, it's because there was nothing in space beyond. Further backed by Paradox saying that universes have different laws of physics (implying that there are no laws of physics in space beyond as physics is limited to universes) and the script of episode forge of creation also says that space beyond is a void of nothingness. So here's the rating it'll grant :
GHOST SHIP UNIVERSE :

To support this, I would like to quote this from BDE page :

Agree with this. Did other verses get Low 1-A rating for the same reasons?

SPACE BEYOND:
As Omniversal Force extends infinitely through every reality and realm, so it means that Space Beyond (that is the final layer having Omniversal Force) should also be infinite sized and thus all universes are just infinitesimal constructs within this void of nothingness, so as a conclusion:

Due to this quote from BDE page :

Neutral (leaning to agree)

BEN'S ANNIHILARG UNIVERSE :
Ben's annihilarg universe should either get solid 1-B (26D) as there's no dimensionality beyond universal realms so the dimensionality Nalgians mentioned was only inside the universe (and thus only 26 dimensions matter for Ben as any other dimensionality won't be even a part of his universe) or it should get downgraded to 1-C.

This is obvious, I think it should be 1-B

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

Agree with this. Did other verses get Low 1-A rating for the same reasons?

DC Crisis Cosmology got low 1-A on statments of universes beyond Spacetime/ dimensions

Neutral (leaning to agree)

Is there any correction or between to this argument you can think of ?

This is obvious

Even if it doesn't get concluded in this CRT, I'll making another CRT as a sequel of this CRT (even if low 1-A alone gets accepted) where I'll discuss Contumelia ship's scale and scale for debate void of Celestialsapiens as well and I'll cover this topic of universe's tier in that CRT (if it doesn't get accepted)

 

[Hellformer]

DC Crisis Cosmology got low 1-A on statments of universes beyond Spacetime/ dimensions

Can you quote the statements from the cosmology page so that people don't play double standards?

Is there any correction or between to this argument you can think of ?

Not currently

Even if it doesn't get concluded in this CRT, I'll making another CRT as a sequel of this CRT (even if low 1-A alone gets accepted) where I'll discuss Contumelia ship's scale and scale for debate void of Celestialsapiens as well and I'll cover this topic of universe's tier in that CRT (if it doesn't get accepted)

 

[Shadowslaya!]

I agree completely.

 

[PedjaTarzan]

if you argue void being 1-A it got removed in recent ultima thread

 

[Hellformer]

if you argue void being 1-A it got removed in recent ultima thread

@ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING If that's the case then we should stick to Low 1-A

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

if you argue void being 1-A it got removed in recent ultima thread

It wasn't removed, they just made it clear that the "void of nothingness" should be "void of nothingness via lacking and drafting all spatiotemporality/ physicality", just "emptiness" isn't enough (and I think I've justified it a bit)

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

Can you quote the statements from the cosmology page so that people don't play double standards?

Earth omega has no dimensional vibrancy

Here are other scans


Wonderworld is at edge of Spacetime

 

[PedjaTarzan]

It wasn't removed, they just made it clear that the "void of nothingness" should be "void of nothingness via lacking and drafting all spatiotemporality/ physicality", just "emptiness" isn't enough (and I think I've justified it a bit)

void is still extremly vague thing to argue, considering how weird functions it has as soon as its lacking space time and dimensions (sounds like 11-C lol)
but do what you like, ima leave input later on Op now that i joined here

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

(sounds like 11-C lol)

An 11-C realm can't encompass a low 1-A realm as it's infinitesimal part

 

[PedjaTarzan]

An 11-C realm can't encompass a low 1-A realm as it's infinitesimal part

what the **** is void even about??

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

mhmm first comment (following)

ima leave input later on Op now that i joined here

Give your input soon guys (I am counting votes)

 

[Lort15]

Give your input soon guys (I am counting votes)

same thoughts with hellformer for now

 

[Shadowslaya!]

I already agree.

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

BUMP

 

[OrangeFR]

Most of the stuff seems fine, but I don’t see how the space being infinite in size makes it so that everything else is infinitesimal compared to it, it just seems like it is also Low 1-A

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Give your input soon guys (I am counting votes)

Same as Hellformer. I feel like there needs to be a stronger explanation for 1A Space Beyond. My view on Ben's Annihilarrgh Universe remains the same.

Waiting for more input. Following.
I think an Annhilarrgh Universe is 1B. The Nalgians confirmed 26D all the way back in Alien Force and despite this, Kevin still believed the Universe to be everything.
Agree for now.

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

I don’t see how the space being infinite in size makes it so that everything else is infinitesimal compared to it, it just seems like it is also Low 1-A

Because other universes are still "non-infinite objects" places within "infinite void"
Also the thing is that it is 1-A for being void of nothingness just because of being bigger than lower realms, infinitely beyond or not won't affect much (as much as I think)

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Alien X is already beating Marvel and DC as a whole, obviously i agree with that

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

Alien X is already beating Marvel and DC as a whole, obviously i agree with that

Is this a joke or do you really agree ?
Can I get a serious response

 

[Hellformer]

Is this a joke or do you really agree ?

Joke

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Is this a joke or do you really agree ?
Can I get a serious response

The first part yes, but i agree.

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

The first part yes, but i agree.

I should count it as a disagree I guess
My bad I thought you said "agreeing as a joke", I realized you said "first part is a joke" about Alien X being able to solo marvel and DC

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

I should count it as a disagree I guess

???

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Just another attempt to get Ben 10 to around 1-A, the usual business.

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

Just another attempt to get Ben 10 to around 1-A, the usual business.

I was waiting for you to be here btw

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I was waiting for you to be here btw

Lol
It seems like we have a Precognition user irl

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

Lol
It seems like we have a Precognition user irl

Should I kindly count your vote in list of "disagree"?

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

following

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Should I kindly count your vote in list of "disagree"?

I didn’t disagree tho
I’m not really voting (it doesn’t matter anyways, not a mod), I’ll just observe. I am genuinely indifferent if this passes or not

 

[OrangeFR]

Because other universes are still "non-infinite objects" places within "infinite void"
Also the thing is that it is 1-A for being void of nothingness just because of being bigger than lower realms, infinitely beyond or not won't affect much (as much as I think)

The universes have to be infinite in size in order for the cosmology to be above 3-A, a force flowing through universes infinitely doesn’t make the place it comes from transcendent to the places it goes through.

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

Disagree with low 1-A as the ghost ship universe has already been rejected at being any tier like that + the 1-A void is just not enough at all.

 

[Celestial_Scaler25]

Disagree with low 1-A as the ghost ship universe has already been rejected at being any tier like that + the 1-A void is just not enough at all.

Not how that works. The original argument was that this scan was referring to higher dimensionality. This argument is different as a means of establishing realms beyond dimensionality. This topic wasn't discussed in the prior CRT. Besides unless this CRT uses arguments or topics discussed in the prior CRT then I don't get the point of using it as evidence to dismiss the arguments in the OP.

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

The universes have to be infinite in size in order for the cosmology to be above 3-A, a force flowing through universes infinitely doesn’t make the place it comes from transcendent to the places it goes through.

Yeah it is infinite, but finite in comparison to space beyond

Disagree with low 1-A as the ghost ship universe has already been rejected at being any tier like that + the 1-A void is just not enough at all.

Why should that mentioning of low 1-A by some staff members (mainly by firestorm) being rejected will count (remember we didn't even argue to defend it as it wasn't main topic back then and this scale gives an explaination on why it means "beyond limits of spacetime" countering that allegation of these statements being meaningless). And high 1-B ghost ship was rejected because dimension here was refering to a different universe + it's not just a "void", but "a void lacking spatiotemporality and physicality" and I've already quoted BDE page for justification of it being 1-A

 

[FriendOfTheTeaParty]

And high 1-B ghost ship was rejected because dimension here was refering to a different universe + it's not just a "void", but "a void lacking spatiotemporality and physicality" and I've already quoted BDE page for justification of it being 1-A

The ghost ship stuff is quite literally just technobabble that doesn't really justify low 1-A. Would need more elaboration than what the scans show.

Also let's take a look at the space beyond and why that wouldn't be close to 1-A.

This dialogue reveals that Space Beyond is a void of absolute nothingness, where conventional measurement devices fail. Paradox states that different universes have different physical laws, implying that Space Beyond is not governed by any physics at all. Since measurement and physics are confined to universes, Space Beyond is unbounded by physical laws—reinforcing the idea that it exists outside all spatiotemporal structures.
This is further backed up by the script of episode forge of creation also says that space beyond is a void of nothingness. If Space Beyond encompasses both spatiotemporal and beyond-spatiotemporal universes, it must see both as equally insignificant, further proving its transcendence, matching this explaination from BDE page :

Different physical laws doesn't necessarily support it being aspatial or atemporal, as there are multiverse theories that deal with worlds with different laws yet they still share a sort of higher dimensional space.

Even in the scan there still exists distance between two things when they're travelling the space beyond which isn't too good of a look arguing for BDE type 2. This more reads like a common void space that exists between universes that more or less functions as a higher dimensional space rather than a void beyond all spatiotemporality.

SPACE BEYOND:
As Omniversal Force extends infinitely through every reality and realm, so it means that Space Beyond (that is the final layer having Omniversal Force) should also be infinite sized and thus all universes are just infinitesimal constructs within this void of nothingness, so as a conclusion:

Due to this quote from BDE page :

This is not a void that vastly dwarfs physical reality as there is no insignificance in comparison because you're getting that from a pretty shoddy inference (merely being infinite sized void while containing realms within it) rather than a needed analogy like "The physical realm is but an insignificant speck of dust in the vastness of the Void".

Hell, with this logic all 2-A multiverses would be low 1-C if being infinite as well as containing different worlds necessitates a sort of vastness in comparison.

 

[StrymULTRA]

This dialogue reveals that Space Beyond is a void of absolute nothingness, where conventional measurement devices fail. Paradox states that different universes have different physical laws, implying that Space Beyond is not governed by any physics at all. Since measurement and physics are confined to universes, Space Beyond is unbounded by physical laws—reinforcing the idea that it exists outside all spatiotemporal structures.

Sure but... You do not need to be "bigger" for that to happen. This happens with literally every void that exists outside space and time, you can still be Low 2-C off that.

Physical Laws are something that exist as long as a normal space-time is there. You do not need to transcend anything as a Tier gap sort of thing to achieve that, you really just need to lack space-time (BDE 1).

To support this, I would like to quote this from BDE page :

Every dimension is already incomprehensible by its own for anything that's lower-dimensional. If it wasn't like that, we'd have already multiple 4D calculations and more.

As Omniversal Force extends infinitely through every reality and realm, so it means that Space Beyond (that is the final layer having Omniversal Force) should also be infinite sized and thus all universes are just infinitesimal constructs within this void of nothingness, so as a conclusion:

This is not 1-A, as it's based on a dimensioned thing, when 1-A requires a complete and utter separation.

There is no evidence for this from what you shown me, just anti feats.

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

The ghost ship stuff is quite literally just technobabble that doesn't really justify low 1-A. Would need more elaboration than what the scans show.

What kind of "more elaboration" when I already elaborated "beyond limits of space and time and thus impossible to be calculated or be comprehend by a being from spatiotemporal universe".

Even in the scan there still exists distance between two things when they're travelling the space beyond which isn't too good of a look arguing for BDE type 2.

Then how can we mere 3D humans show something in an Outerverse without it being similar to world war comprehend. If two objects are existing in an Outerversal void and are apart from each other, what other term is in our human languages to tell that they are apart from each other instead of saying that they are at a "distance from each other"? Of course non