Lord Boros' Class P Removal

[Phoenks]

Lord Boros currently scales to Class P in Lifting Strength based on this calculation of his moon kick feat.

This is wrong for two reasons:
1. The calculation isn't correct.
2. This isn't a demonstration of lifting strength in the first place.

Let me explain.

-

In the calculation, it assumes that Boros' initial velocity is 0.

"We have to use the constant acceleration equation for this which is V^2 - U^2/2*S

With V being the initial velocity, U being the final velocity and S being the distance traveled

0^2 - 269813212^2/2 * 2.299741288 = 1.58276867*10^16 m/s^2"

(They actually put the calculation backwards. It should be 269813212^2 - 0^2/2 * 2.299741288 = 1.58276867*10^16 m/s^2. Where V is the final velocity and U is the initial. Just a minor mistake on their part, the result is still correct but the issue here remains)

This isn't true at all as Boros clearly came at Saitama extremely quickly, before shifting his momentum into his kick.

Just because this was initially a horizontal movement, does not mean it doesn't account for the initial velocity. It's just velocity, has nothing to do with the direction he's going. And the velocity would still matter as he is shifting the energy into the kick as he arcs his leg upwards.

Adjusting this value would significantly reduce the final result of this calculation.

-

Next, why this isn't LS.

The reason is quite simple, really. This is a kick. A striking action with a single point of impact which does not relate to LS in the slightest. This not a lift, or a push as some people have been claiming it is. But in case you still believe what you're looking at is something else. Murata has said it himself.

And not only is this a striking action, but Boros even releases an explosion of energy that further blasts him away. The same way this explosion blasted him away just moments previously.

Ziller on the OPM thread claimed that Boros didn't release energy here and it is just a light beam. This is a ridiculous claim. Not only did Murata confirm it to be Boros' energy in this same scan, but even in the anime we can see that both his initial Meteoric Burst blast and the blast from this attack are drawn the same way. So, unless you guys want to grandstand that all of Boros' energy attacks are just some flashy light and Murata is lying, please don't bring up this argument again.

Due to these factors, this is clearly a result of Boros' striking and energy projection power, rather than his lifting strength.

He should not scale to this feat.

-

Bold = Staff Opinion

Agree: 14 (5;9): @FantaRin_The_First, @RatherClueless, @Marvel_Champion_07, @RanaProGamer, @Qawsedf234, @DMUA, @DaReaperMan, @Planck69, @DarkDragonMedeus, @Excel616, @Reiner, @TimmyTurnero, @Shmooply, @PrinceofPein
Neutral:
Disagree: 1 (0;1) @ZillertheBucko

(Apologies if this ends up randomly tagging users here. Happens when I edit the vote count)

 

[Coomandar]

bump

 

[Phoenks]

bump

No need to bump, just came out with this thread.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

No need to bump, just came out with this thread.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

Zup. I'mma just going to take this moment to say that this CRT addressed an issue I had with the calc for a bit but wasn't sure how to put it into words. As you stated, this is a SS and energy projection feat and not a LS feat. So count me on the agree pile for this.

And dumb question, what will Boros LS be if this CRT is successful? Unknown? Or is that question up to another CRT entirely?

 

[Coomandar]

No need to bump, just came out with this thread.

Anyway, what are your thoughts?

im heading to bed at this exact moment, after a good nap ill be back

 

[Phoenks]

Zup. I'mma just going to take this moment to say that this CRT addressed an issue I had with the calc for a bit but wasn't sure how to put it into words. As you stated, this is a SS and energy projection feat and not a LS feat. So count me on the agree pile for this.

And dumb question, what will Boros LS be if this CRT is successful? Unknown? Or is that question up to another CRT entirely?

Currently, I'm not exactly sure.

I think he can scale to Class G above the stronger dragon levels, but I will wait to see what others think.

I'll add you onto agree.

 

[RatherClueless]

"We have to use the constant acceleration equation for this which is V^2 - U^2/2*S

With V being the initial velocity, U being the final velocity and S being the distance traveled

0^2 - 269813212^2/2 * 2.299741288 = 1.58276867*10^16 m/s^2"

V is the final velocity and U is the initial one. The calculation is swapped around.

Besides that, I agree with this

 

[Phoenks]

V is the final velocity and U is the initial one. The calculation is swapped around.

Besides that, I agree with this

So the calculation have been

269813212^2 - 0^2/2 * 2.299741288

269813212 being final velocity. 0 being initial.

And this is still wrong for the same reason?

 

[RatherClueless]

And this is still wrong for the same reason?

No?

the original just swapped V and U yet still got the right solution.

 

[Phoenks]

No?

the original just swapped V and U yet still got the right solution.

I am saying it's still wrong because it says the initial velocity is 0

 

[RatherClueless]

I am saying it's still wrong because it says the initial velocity is 0

oh, yeah. That remains the same

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Sure

 

[Recon1511]

Currently, I'm not exactly sure.

I think he can scale to Class G above the stronger dragon levels, but I will wait to see what others think.

I'll add you onto agree.

Class G calc is probably getting binned

Re-reading the chapter TTM didn't even stop that giant robot lol

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Class G calc is probably getting binned

Re-reading the chapter TTM didn't even stop that giant robot lol

... Big Oof. What's the best LS feat after that?

 

[Phoenks]

... Big Oof. What's the best LS feat after that?

The only one after that which Boros could reasonably scale to is Suiryu's Class M feat.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Re-reading the chapter TTM didn't even stop that giant robot lol

Databook suggests that he did, but then again, it depends on whether you consider that statement reliable or not

 

[Phoenks]

Sure

I assume this means you are in agreement with the OP?

 

[Emerald]

There’s Geryuganshoop shooting near LS rocks and Saitama just ignoring it
I believe thats Class G

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

There’s Geryuganshoop shooting near LS rocks and Saitama just ignoring it
I believe thats Class G

Boros used to scale to that, but it was removed in a CRT

 

[Emerald]

So our best bet is like Boros > Melz > Sky King = DSK ~ PPP > 2x Hammerhead = Class M

 

[RanaProGamer]

Yeah, it’s not like Boros is throwing Saitama to the moon. This is just an AP feat if anything.

 

[Gasper]

This looks fine to me.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

This isn't true at all as Boros clearly came at Saitama extremely quickly, before shifting his momentum into his kick.

Just because this was initially a horizontal movement, does not mean it doesn't account for the initial velocity. It's just velocity, has nothing to do with the direction he's going. And the velocity would still matter as he is shifting the energy into the kick as he arcs his leg upwards.

Adjusting this value would significantly reduce the final result of this calculation.

actually, it would increase it

as I already pointed out to you before (and you were completely speechless as a result) the only momentum Boros would've even had was going at a downwards angle. In other words, all you're doing here is saying that the feat should be recalculated at a higher value.
The Boros clan thanks you for your service.

Next, why this isn't LS.

The reason is quite simple, really. This is a kick. A striking action with a single point of impact which does not relate to LS in the slightest. This not a lift, or a push as some people have been claiming it is. But in case you still believe what you're looking at is something else. Murata has said it himself.

And not only is this a striking action, but Boros even releases an explosion of energy that further blasts him away. The same way this explosion blasted him away just moments previously.

objectively wrong for multiple reasons, one of which you, again, failed to have a comeback against in previous discussion, and continued to post this abomination to begin with...

For one, that's not what an energy blast looks like.

this is what his energy blast looks like
and if you're going to use the anime colors to prove they're the same, there's two things wrong with that as well.
first, it being the same color doesn't change the fact that the one from the moon kick is still a light trail to show the trajectory of where Saitama went
second, if we're using the anime, then woohoo

because this scene blatantly shows Saitama having a velocity of zero before being launched entirely by lifting, on top of the fact that the electricity is still moving there, so it's not even frozen time or slow motion.

However, let me indulge in your headcanon a bit, and for the sake of the argument, this is in fact an energy blast.
It doesn't matter in the slightest, because of the fact that Boros' movements are propelled by said energy to begin with, so it wouldn't have higher speed than him to begin with, and is only seen releasing AFTER he finishes a strike from that punch.

oh, and would you look at that, the guidebook has a page from the redrawn volume that you intentionally left out of your OP despite being made aware of its existence multiple times, lets look at that actually.

you've made a lapse in judgement, and you are forgiven.



also it being referred to as a kick is a downright insane argument, because it is objectively a kicking motion regardless of it was done via lifting or not. Same way people can kick off their shoes, or kick dust off their clothes, it's got absolutely nothing to do with the difference between striking or LS.

Ziller on the OPM thread claimed that Boros didn't release energy here and it is just a light beam. This is a ridiculous claim. Not only did Murata confirm it to be Boros' energy in this same scan, but even in the anime we can see that both his initial Meteoric Burst blast and the blast from this attack are drawn the same way. So, unless you guys want to grandstand that all of Boros' energy attacks are just some flashy light and Murata is lying, please don't bring up this argument again.

Due to these factors, this is clearly a result of Boros' striking and energy projection power, rather than his lifting strength.

He should not scale to this feat.

now I've already addressed all of this thoroughly, but to add a more miscellaneous argument
the fact is, it would make no sense that literally every single strike before the moon kick doesn't send saitama flying very far, but the one time Boros does something that very clearly looks like a throw, Saitama goes flying into space. If it was just any old strike, then literally every strike would be sending saitama flying out the atmosphere

tl;dr every single one of your points lacks any validity whatsoever, and at the absolute worst you may have just given what we need for a LS upgrade.

 

[RatherClueless]

as I already pointed out to you before (and you were completely speechless as a result) the only momentum Boros would've even had was going at a downwards angle. In other words, all you're doing here is saying that the feat should be recalculated at a higher value.
The Boros clan thanks you for your service.

Stop the cap. Nobody fell silent. Setto and I both told you several times how incredibly wrong your understanding of the physics behind this feat is. However, if you really care about the angle this much, here you have a link to centripetal acceleration. Have fun redoing the calc with that.

because this scene blatantly shows Saitama having a velocity of zero before being launched entirely by lifting, on top of the fact that the electricity is still moving there, so it's not even frozen time or slow motion.

Are you seriously using animation effects and slow-mo as an argument? Don't embarrass yourself. This was pointed out to you beforehand as well.

also it being referred to as a kick is a downright insane argument, because it is objectively a kicking motion regardless of it was done via lifting or not. Same way people can kick off their shoes, or kick dust off their clothes, it's got absolutely nothing to do with the difference between striking or LS.

Honestly, all this reply is showing me is that I should make a thread to tighten up the distinction between lifting strength and AP/Striking strength

 

[Phoenks]

Oh, boy, this is silly.

as I already pointed out to you before (and you were completely speechless as a result) the only momentum Boros would've even had was going at a downwards angle. In other words, all you're doing here is saying that the feat should be recalculated at a higher value.

I was speechless because I thought you were joking about that.

Anyway, since you're being serious. No, Boros isn't hitting Saitama down. You drawing a line down his leg doesn't prove the direction he is striking him. Its just a matter of perspective.

Thank you for the scan at the end. This actually proves that he wasn't pointing down in the first place.

However, this actually doesn't matter because the direction the velocity is in doesn't matter for this calculation. It's just total velocity. So even if he was pointing him down, this would not actually change anything.

The velocity is way above 0, and thus the final value would be much lower.

objectively wrong for multiple reasons, one of which you, again, failed to have a comeback against in previous discussion, and continued to post this abomination to begin with...

For one, that's not what an energy blast looks like.

first, it being the same color doesn't change the fact that the one from the moon kick is still a light trail to show the trajectory of where Saitama went

Murata himself stated it was Boros' energy that coated Saitama on the way to the moon.

So in the scan that you provided (thanks again), it is made even more clear that Boros is propelling him with energy as well.

It's not trajectory of light AT ALL we even see the beam itself here flying up and coating Saitama. Which aligns exactly with what Murata said. FFS there's even the lightning that comes out when Boros does his energy attacks.

Even the exact point of impact is made more clear. Which aligns with the impacts drawn with these strikes.




I can not fathom why you would come at me so aggressively and confidently, calling me "objectively wrong" while ignoring the actual physics AND even the ******* artist statements. Sigh.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Stop the cap. Nobody fell silent. Setto and I both told you several times how incredibly wrong your understanding of the physics behind this feat is. However, if you really care about the angle this much, here you have a link to centripetal acceleration. Have fun redoing the calc with that.

Then we can redo the calc with that, sure? However, telling me that my understanding of the physics is wrong doesn’t mean proving it
also, what I’m referring to is a dm discussion that you weren’t a part of, in which unlike your discussion, I pointed out that it was actually a downwards angle, not just a horizontal angle, which would have counteracted the velocity and made it even harder.
The entirety of your response just now is “you’re completely wrong, but also here’s the method to use that’s going to upgrade the calc” so thank you.

Are you seriously using animation effects and slow-mo as an argument? Don't embarrass yourself. This was pointed out to you beforehand as well.

I specifically countered the fact, proving that it’s not frozen time affects, that was the entirety of my point there. You’re just not reading, and I mean it genuinely, you did not read the post correctly, so you must have missed it.

Honestly, all this reply is showing me is that I should make a thread to tighten up the distinction between lifting strength and AP/Striking strength

Lifting things is LS, silly goose.

 

[Shmooply]

As a LS enjoyer, this is a hard agree from me.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Oh, boy, this is silly.

I was speechless because I thought you were joking about that.

Anyway, since you're being serious. No, Boros isn't hitting Saitama down. You drawing a line down his leg doesn't prove the direction he is striking him. Its just a matter of perspective.

Thank you for the scan at the end. This actually proves that he wasn't pointing down in the first place.

However, this actually doesn't matter because the direction the velocity is in doesn't matter for this calculation. It's just total velocity. So even if he was pointing him down, this would not actually change anything.

The velocity is way above 0, and thus the final value would be much lower.

No, that scan does not prove anything.
because all it’s showing is Boros having moved his position and is in the middle of the kick.
As you can clearly see in the very image you sent, Boros is posed in a completely different position, so it’s very undeniably not even a different perspective of the same frame, it was just the next part of his motion. The angle of Boros’ knee relative to Saitama can’t change for you to claim it’s the same moment. What you’ve just sent is objectively wrong.
So it’s not “perspective” and Murata didn’t rotate the camera 45 degrees for that one panel, because we know for a fact that Saitama’s position implies that Boros is kicking him from above, resulting in downwards momentum.

I’ll get to the rest later.

 

[RatherClueless]

However, telling me that my understanding of the physics is wrong doesn’t mean proving it

Proving what? I have no idea what you are saying.

which would have counteracted the velocity and made it even harder.

Not how vectors work. Unless it's over 90°, nothing is getting "counteracted".

The entirety of your response just now is “you’re completely wrong, but also here’s the method to use that’s going to upgrade the calc” so thank you.

Again, it won't upgrade the calc. Idk why you think that. It's a substantial nerf and then there is still the question of whether it even qualifies as LS to begin with. Just because you can calculate sth as Newtons, doesn't mean it makes sense to use it as such.

I specifically countered the fact, proving that it’s not frozen time affects, that was the entirety of my point there. You’re just not reading, and I mean it genuinely, you did not read the post correctly, so you must have missed it.

I didn't miss it. Your logic just simply doesn't hold up. None of what you posted and said is evidence to support 0m/s as starting velocity.

Lifting things is LS, silly goose.

You don't say

 

[EnderLord8]

following...

 

[PrinceofPein]

Agree with the thread, instead of this going around in circles staffs should be tagged

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Agree with the thread, instead of this going around in circles staffs should be tagged

yes, instead of having a discussion beyond a single page we should hurry up and get staff member sama to speed blitz the thread.

Before I sleep tonight, I’m going to go through and destroy every single argument in favor of the OP in its entirety, and not dodge anything.
Maybe then we can finally put this to rest.

 

[Phoenks]

You have countered a total of 0 arguments so far so to say the least, I am doubtful.

You even disproved your own arguments by trying to pull a gatcha with that other scan.

Anyways. Will do as Pein said because I'm not interested in debating your headcanon for multiple pages. Already seen the arguments you have to offer.

@DMUA @Planck69 @Qawsedf234 @Damage3245 @ByAsura @KLOL506

 

[ByAsura]

I'm not joining in on this.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I don't completely agree with point 1, since in both the Anime and Manga it looks like Boros did a flying knee thst turned into a kick, which is what launched Saitama. So I don't his starting velocity being a percentage of lightspeed or anything.

The second point is true though. We're not supposed to scale a striking feat as lifting strength and Boros' all evidence points to Boros either kicking Saitama or using his energy to launch him into outerspace.

 

[Phoenks]

So I don't his starting velocity being a percentage of lightspeed or anything.

Okay, you can think that but saying it's "0" is just wrong.

Also, even it going from a knee to a kick still takes from some of that velocity. It's a continuous movement in an arc.

The second point is true though. We're not supposed to scale a striking feat as lifting strength and Boros' all evidence points to Boros either kicking Saitama or using his energy to launch him into outerspace.

I assume this means I can add you to agreeing with the removal of this feat for LS?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

The second point is true though. We're not supposed to scale a striking feat as lifting strength and Boros' all evidence points to Boros either kicking Saitama or using his energy to launch him into outerspace.

The only strike Boros did was when he kneed him downwards, in the volume redraw it is shown that after that strike he lifts his leg while already making contact with Saitama, so there was absolutely 0 opportunity for it to have been a strike rather than just a lift of the leg.

 

[Phoenks]

The only strike Boros did was when he kneed him downwards, in the volume redraw it is shown that after that strike he lifts his leg while already making contact with Saitama, so there was absolutely 0 opportunity for it to have been a strike rather than just a lift of the leg.

Ziller it showed the motion of a kick with a single impact cloud and a energy beam blasting off his foot.

 

[Coomandar]

i agree that he used energy to propel the kick.

as we know, this is how meteoric burst works anyway.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Ziller it showed the motion of a kick with a single impact cloud and a energy beam blasting off his foot.

The motion of a kick means nothing, because it literally was a lifting feat with his leg, how the **** else do you expect him to do that? Saitama was literally already on his foot.
And just a reminder that Boros’ energy is what’s propelling him in the first place, so anything his energy does would scale to meteoric burst.
And also, that’s not an energy blast, that’s a trajectory line, and there’s really no reason to assume it’s anything else when we see the exact same thing in the series before
it being the same color means nothing when we also see his energy being a completely different shape when he punches saitama.
You’ve got nothing, basically.