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Lightning Farron vs Goku
- Thread starter Paladinporter
- Start date
- Status
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Goku can easly dodge everything she throws at her with ultra instinct.KuuIchigo said:
debunked.
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Yeah and? Is he going to be able to move after getting stabbed, slashed and bombarded with magic the longer it goes on?
Debunked what? You're acting as if UI is infallible. Keep bringing it up since clearly Goku can't do anything else without it. I want see how long he can last against someone who is nigh-limitless in stamina.
Debunked what? You're acting as if UI is infallible. Keep bringing it up since clearly Goku can't do anything else without it. I want see how long he can last against someone who is nigh-limitless in stamina.
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Goku "easily dodging everything" in an eualized speed fight is an NLF. Nothing was debunked.
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If speed wasn't equal, Goku would blitz.
All we know is he can react without thinking, that doesn't mean he can auto dodge every attack. He gets stronger and faster, but only one of those things applies to this fight, and Lightning has ways to last it out as well as hurt him in more ways.
Goku only has getting stronger and the mafuba. One has a time limit, and the other I don't know enough about to have confidence it would work.
All we know is he can react without thinking, that doesn't mean he can auto dodge every attack. He gets stronger and faster, but only one of those things applies to this fight, and Lightning has ways to last it out as well as hurt him in more ways.
Goku only has getting stronger and the mafuba. One has a time limit, and the other I don't know enough about to have confidence it would work.
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Lightning for reasons above. Much more versatile than Goku not to mention more haxed.
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People are really overestimating Goku's instinct here. Dodging slashes and stuff, fun. Dodging AoE spells that have debilitating effects, not that fun anymore.
Goku's reactive evolution is just another fancy word for Zenkai and gives off the wrong message (which is why I was against this wording in the first place). All it does it make him stronger during the course of the fight. And that won't matter much if he's getting debuffed to hell and back including speed, attack and defense. He can literally get oneshot by several of her abilities and be incapacitated by several others.
Also Mafuba? Are you for real? That thing is for sealing away demons and last time I checked, Lightning isn't a demon. And even if she was, you really think a sealing technique would work against someone with Soul Manipulation? Goku isn't using that technique against haxless villains in his own franchise so...yeah, that's useless.
Goku's reactive evolution is just another fancy word for Zenkai and gives off the wrong message (which is why I was against this wording in the first place). All it does it make him stronger during the course of the fight. And that won't matter much if he's getting debuffed to hell and back including speed, attack and defense. He can literally get oneshot by several of her abilities and be incapacitated by several others.
Also Mafuba? Are you for real? That thing is for sealing away demons and last time I checked, Lightning isn't a demon. And even if she was, you really think a sealing technique would work against someone with Soul Manipulation? Goku isn't using that technique against haxless villains in his own franchise so...yeah, that's useless.
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What Goku might have in a few weeks is irrelevant to his current stats, i.e. this fight, so voting based on that alone really doesn't seem right to me. But you do you.
I also think while it is a current weakness that may be removed, removing its time limit doesn't take away many of Lightning's means of victory. So if it were removed, I'd probably be inconclusive. I'd have to wait and see more.
I also think while it is a current weakness that may be removed, removing its time limit doesn't take away many of Lightning's means of victory. So if it were removed, I'd probably be inconclusive. I'd have to wait and see more.
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Going from SSJ to SSJ2 was also evolving. Is that reactive evolution? Hardly.
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Even if we say it's actually possible to seal her, there are several problems with this:
- Out of character for Goku
- By the time he decides to actually use it, he'll be tired and out of energy because he first and foremost wants a good fight.
- The technique takes time. Lightning isn't gonna stand there and take it.
- You need a container, Goku doesn't have one on himself.
- During the performing of the technique she can break the container, rendering it useless.
- Even if she does get sealed, her summons like Odin would also break the container and set her free again.
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Changing to Lightning for Repps reasons
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lightning FRA
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@ScarletFirefly
Goku's reactive evolution is just another fancy word for Zenkai and gives off the wrong message (which is why I was against this wording in the first place). All it does it make him stronger during the course of the fight
Piccolo specifically stated that Goku's moves were getting sharper, stronger, faster and more efficient the longer he fought Jiren, and so do his reflexes. This is a form of reactive evolution, not a "fancy Zenkai". Zenkai doesn't even work like that.
And that won't matter much if he's getting debuffed to hell and back including speed, attack and defense
You said it yourself, it doesn't matter. If Lightning attacks debuff Goku, then he can gradually reclose the gap by further becoming stronger, sharper and faster during his fight with her.
Also Mafuba? Are you for real? That thing is for sealing away demons and last time I checked, Lightning isn't a Demon
Eh no, that attack works on different types of enemies, not just necessarily demons. Have you even seen the Goku black or Tournement of Power arc? When Trunks used it against Zamasu? Or when Master Roshi used it against Frost? I'm pretty sure we can agree those two weren't demons.
you really think a sealing technique would work against someone with Soul Manipulation?
Why wouldn't it? Is there something special about Lightning's Soul Manipulation that lets her resist or deflect sealing techniques?
Going from SSJ to SSJ2 was also evolving. Is that reactive evolution? Hardly.
A pretty bad and senseless comparision since SSJ is a transformation that increases your stats for a specific amount perminently (as in the multiplier doesn't get lower or higher). UI, on the other hand, allowed Goku to get stronger and faster the longer he fought, the increase isn't exact as it's constantly rising.
Goku's reactive evolution is just another fancy word for Zenkai and gives off the wrong message (which is why I was against this wording in the first place). All it does it make him stronger during the course of the fight
Piccolo specifically stated that Goku's moves were getting sharper, stronger, faster and more efficient the longer he fought Jiren, and so do his reflexes. This is a form of reactive evolution, not a "fancy Zenkai". Zenkai doesn't even work like that.
And that won't matter much if he's getting debuffed to hell and back including speed, attack and defense
You said it yourself, it doesn't matter. If Lightning attacks debuff Goku, then he can gradually reclose the gap by further becoming stronger, sharper and faster during his fight with her.
Also Mafuba? Are you for real? That thing is for sealing away demons and last time I checked, Lightning isn't a Demon
Eh no, that attack works on different types of enemies, not just necessarily demons. Have you even seen the Goku black or Tournement of Power arc? When Trunks used it against Zamasu? Or when Master Roshi used it against Frost? I'm pretty sure we can agree those two weren't demons.
you really think a sealing technique would work against someone with Soul Manipulation?
Why wouldn't it? Is there something special about Lightning's Soul Manipulation that lets her resist or deflect sealing techniques?
Going from SSJ to SSJ2 was also evolving. Is that reactive evolution? Hardly.
A pretty bad and senseless comparision since SSJ is a transformation that increases your stats for a specific amount perminently (as in the multiplier doesn't get lower or higher). UI, on the other hand, allowed Goku to get stronger and faster the longer he fought, the increase isn't exact as it's constantly rising.
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@Sidali891
You're completely missing the point about the reactive evolution. He's not developing any resistances to anything, it's just stat and reflex boosting.
You said it yourself, it doesn't matter. If Lightning attacks debuff Goku, then he can gradually reclose the gap by further becoming stronger, sharper and faster during his fight with her.
You fail to realize that while Goku's stats rise slowly, Lightning can layer debuff upon debuff and essentially cripple him again. Not to mention she can oneshot him with several abilities disregarding his stats completely as I already mentioned previously.
I already addressed the points about Mafuba. I'm not going to repeat myself.
If all you got going for Goku is his Instinct and Mafuba, you're fighting a losing battle. He's trumped in both versatility and hax.
You're completely missing the point about the reactive evolution. He's not developing any resistances to anything, it's just stat and reflex boosting.
You said it yourself, it doesn't matter. If Lightning attacks debuff Goku, then he can gradually reclose the gap by further becoming stronger, sharper and faster during his fight with her.
You fail to realize that while Goku's stats rise slowly, Lightning can layer debuff upon debuff and essentially cripple him again. Not to mention she can oneshot him with several abilities disregarding his stats completely as I already mentioned previously.
I already addressed the points about Mafuba. I'm not going to repeat myself.
If all you got going for Goku is his Instinct and Mafuba, you're fighting a losing battle. He's trumped in both versatility and hax.
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Not like the time matters but yeah.
What are the votes again?
What are the votes again?
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You're completely missing the point about the reactive evolution. He's not developing any resistances to anything, it's just stat and reflex boosting.
And what did I say in regards to that? "This is a form of reactive evolution".
You fail to realize that while Goku's stats rise slowly, Lightning can layer debuff upon debuff and essentially cripple him agai
Excatly. This is why it doesn't really matter. The former casts debuffs while the latter recovers by further increasing his stats, and the cycle goes on...
I already addressed the points about Mafuba. I'm not going to repeat myself.
My points regarding the Mafuba are entirely different from the ones you addressed.
If all you got going for Goku is his Instinct and Mafuba, you're fighting a losing battle. He's trumped in both versatility and hax.
And this is what I was expecting. Me, fighting a losing battle when I didn't pick a side? How come? I never said Goku would win via UI, just noticed you stating some rather false informations regarding some aspects and some abilities, and I felt the need to correct you. That is all.
And what did I say in regards to that? "This is a form of reactive evolution".
You fail to realize that while Goku's stats rise slowly, Lightning can layer debuff upon debuff and essentially cripple him agai
Excatly. This is why it doesn't really matter. The former casts debuffs while the latter recovers by further increasing his stats, and the cycle goes on...
I already addressed the points about Mafuba. I'm not going to repeat myself.
My points regarding the Mafuba are entirely different from the ones you addressed.
If all you got going for Goku is his Instinct and Mafuba, you're fighting a losing battle. He's trumped in both versatility and hax.
And this is what I was expecting. Me, fighting a losing battle when I didn't pick a side? How come? I never said Goku would win via UI, just noticed you stating some rather false informations regarding some aspects and some abilities, and I felt the need to correct you. That is all.
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Excatly. This is why it doesn't really matter. The former casts debuffs while the latter recovers by further increasing his stats, and the cycle goes on...
Except it doesn't go on. Goku's stats rise slower than what Lightning can debuff him for. The numbers on her debuffing spells are significant enough to make a difference on the first time cast let alone multiple casts and multiple types. Yes Goku can keep up to an extent, but not for long. And it still doesn't get around her oneshotting possibilities at all.
My points regarding the Mafuba are entirely different from the ones you addressed.
I already considered a scenario in which Lightning can be sealed by that technique and made my points about it.
And this is what I was expecting. Me, fighting a losing battle when I didn't pick a side? How come? I never said Goku would win via UI, just noticed you stating some rather false informations regarding some aspects and some abilities, and I felt the need to correct you. That is all.
I said if. In case you're not picking a side that's fine and in case you are that's again fine. If you're here to correct me that is of course fine as well. I am here to discuss after all.
Except it doesn't go on. Goku's stats rise slower than what Lightning can debuff him for. The numbers on her debuffing spells are significant enough to make a difference on the first time cast let alone multiple casts and multiple types. Yes Goku can keep up to an extent, but not for long. And it still doesn't get around her oneshotting possibilities at all.
My points regarding the Mafuba are entirely different from the ones you addressed.
I already considered a scenario in which Lightning can be sealed by that technique and made my points about it.
And this is what I was expecting. Me, fighting a losing battle when I didn't pick a side? How come? I never said Goku would win via UI, just noticed you stating some rather false informations regarding some aspects and some abilities, and I felt the need to correct you. That is all.
I said if. In case you're not picking a side that's fine and in case you are that's again fine. If you're here to correct me that is of course fine as well. I am here to discuss after all.
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Except it doesn't go on. Goku's stats rise slower than what Lightning can debuff him for. The numbers on her debuffing spells are significant enough to make a difference on the first time cast let alone multiple casts and multiple types. Yes Goku can keep up to an extent, but not for long. And it still doesn't get around her oneshotting possibilities at all.
I suppose that makes sense. However, I don't think she can spam debuffs constantly if she's in-character.
I already considered a scenario in which Lightning can be sealed by that technique and made my points about it.
That's not what I meant. I was talking about the Mafuba being usable on different enemy races, not just demons, which is in fact, an entirely different point.
I suppose that makes sense. However, I don't think she can spam debuffs constantly if she's in-character.
I already considered a scenario in which Lightning can be sealed by that technique and made my points about it.
That's not what I meant. I was talking about the Mafuba being usable on different enemy races, not just demons, which is in fact, an entirely different point.
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Voting for Goku via Reactive Evolution, Teleportation and unspeakably superior range.
Even if Lightning can spam debuffs to counter Reactive Evolution ( + the implication that debuffs will just stack endlessly is NFL ) Goku can just leave Lightning's maximum range and just blast endlessly.
Even if Lightning can spam debuffs to counter Reactive Evolution ( + the implication that debuffs will just stack endlessly is NFL ) Goku can just leave Lightning's maximum range and just blast endlessly.
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"Leave her range"
And then she chases after him.
And then she chases after him.
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How do you chase after a teleporter with speed equal across the entire universe?
Edit*
How does she even know where to head for?
Edit*
How does she even know where to head for?
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Except for those 6 times when Goku used teleportation strictly to engage or avoid fighting an enemy he couldn't defeat in close combat. And as you yourself stated he utilizes it predominantly for offensive purposes. This is an offensive move. Goku will do anything to win a fight. Second part is sort of a non-argument, if anything he'd use it all the more sooner. Not the other way around.
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Lol at those being the same as going out of range.
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Vs Buu/Cell = a full on retreat.
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Oh you mean those times where Goku fought them in CQC?Myriadofmemes said:
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