Lifting Strength With Weapons

[KingTempest]

It's really simple and it should be put as a note in the lifting strength page.

Weapons like swords and bats are used via using your lifting strength to apply force in attacks, unlike the strength of people punching which doesn't really correlate with it that much.

If you can't lift a weapon, you can't apply force with it, which means you have less AP with it.
If you can lift a weapon, you can apply force with it, which means you have more AP with it.
The harder you swing or the more you push a weapon, the more force behind it, which means more AP.

A note like below with preferably better wording should be put in place, like this.

In the case of striking strength with a weapon, a character who can easily lift a weapon should have superior Attack Potency than someone who struggles to lift the same weapon.

Maybe it's redundant, but it should be noted.

An Example For Those Confused​

We should probably adjust the rule to something along the lines of:

I'm also unsure how this would generally play out in practice, due to our Lifting Strength and Striking Strength being measured in different units (Joules in comparison to Newtons/Kilograms), which aren't generally compatible without weird conversions.

It would just be superior to the others, we wouldn't have to calculate it.

For example.

1st Man is 7-A with Class M lifting strength with a baseball bat he struggles to carry with 2 hands.
2nd Man is unknown but can easily carry that baseball bat with 1 hand.

2nd Man is now 7-A. Simple.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

this makes sense to me.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Chef’s kiss sir

Checks out until a melee weapons expert comes and proves it wrong.

Edit: I can't read and didn't see this was staff discussion, I blame MrkTempest for not putting [STAFF ONLY] in the title gg.

 

[KieranH10]

Yeah I guess this makes sense.

Thought correlating Lifting Strength to Striking Strength with weapons could get messy. I can see people arguing High 3-A Striking Strength just because a character has Infinite LS. Or similar, which technically makes sense mathematically, but may not always be the case with characters.

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah I guess this makes sense.

Thought correlating Lifting Strength to Striking Strength with weapons could get messy. I can see people arguing High 3-A Striking Strength just because a character has Infinite LS. Or similar, which technically makes sense mathematically, but may not always be the case with characters.

Yeah this makes sense, I guess we can find a limit for it?

 

[KieranH10]

We should probably adjust the rule to something along the lines of:

In the case of striking strength with a weapon, a character who can easily lift a weapon should have superior Attack Potency than someone who struggles to lift the same weapon. Though characters must show that their Lifting Strength correlates with their affinity with a weapon before scaling fully to their Striking Strength.

I'm also unsure how this would generally play out in practice, due to our Lifting Strength and Striking Strength being measured in different units (Joules in comparison to Newtons/Kilograms), which aren't generally compatible without weird conversions.

 

[KingTempest]

We should probably adjust the rule to something along the lines of:

I'm also unsure how this would generally play out in practice, due to our Lifting Strength and Striking Strength being measured in different units (Joules in comparison to Newtons/Kilograms), which aren't generally compatible without weird conversions.

It would just be superior to the others, we wouldn't have to calculate it.

For example.

1st Man is 7-A with Class M lifting strength with a baseball bat he struggles to carry with 2 hands.
2nd Man is unknown but can easily carry that baseball bat with 1 hand.

2nd Man is now 7-A. Simple.

 

[KieranH10]

Ahhh I see.
Yeah that's fine then.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm not entirely certain that simply having more lifting strength always equates to higher AP with melee weapons; there are characters with Class 1 lifting strength who strike harder than those with Class G lifting strength. There are special cases yeah and agree that some examples of Character A can lift something character B can't being a reason for character A to upscale. First that comes to mind is Gohan > Shin via lifting the Z sword. But actually, it's mostly some degree of lifting strength is used to make a weapon have good force but momentum also still builds kinetic energy more than lifting strength does it better cases.

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama @Promestein @DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @SomebodyData @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Wokistan @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Ogbunabali @Abstractions

What do you think about this?

 

[KLOL506]

I'm in with DDM's suggestion of case-by-case.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I dislike this notion. Seems like it'd set a lot of precedents I'd rather not see set given how much context can be given on shit like this. Consider me opposed.

 

[KingTempest]

I'm not entirely certain that simply having more lifting strength always equates to higher AP with melee weapons; there are characters with Class 1 lifting strength who strike harder than those with Class G lifting strength.

Is this referring to characters in the same verse? Or characters in different verses

There are special cases yeah and agree that some examples of Character A can lift something character B can't being a reason for character A to upscale. First that comes to mind is Gohan > Shin via lifting the Z sword. But actually, it's mostly some degree of lifting strength is used to make a weapon have good force but momentum also still builds kinetic energy more than lifting strength does it better cases.

This would fall into special cases.

For example, 2 characters that come to my mind are Zabuza and Suigetsu. Zabuza can lift his sword easily with one hand, throw it, slice people with it, etc. Suigetsu can barely carry the sword, struggles to hit people with it, and he swings it very similarly to his mentor Zabuza.

With momentum and such, it's more that makes it uncertain. Building momentum is valid to make the useI underr have more AP, but ignoring that and how it could vary for different people.

If 2 people hold the same sword and they need to swing it a meter before they hit someone, the person who has better lifting strength will undeniably hit harder. That's what I'm attempting to implement.

 

[KingTempest]

I dislike this notion. Seems like it'd set a lot of precedents I'd rather not see set given how much context can be given on shit like this. Consider me opposed.

It's not that many.

If 2 people swing a weapon the same/similar distance or in a similar motion, the person with superior lifting strength is stronger.

 

[Rocker1189]

In real life this would obviously make sense. But I am not so sure fictionally. I am pretty sure that quite a few verses have characters that can lift more but are weaker in AP than characters that can not. So basically obviously it is case by case. However I think that there would need to be a bit more evidence that said character has higher AP than just lifting strength.

Edit: shit this is staff discussion, mb.

 

[AKM sama]

This looks like a case-by-case to me. KT's scenario is only valid when there is a character who has difficulty in lifting a weapon while there is another who can easily lift it. That's a valid scenario.

Although, if a sword is lightweight enough that both, a skilled sword master and some body builder brute (who has more lifting strength), can lift it easily, then it would depend on how well you can use it. Skill, body movements, velocity, etc. will play a part in deciding their striking strengths.

 

[Elizhaa]

From the arguments above, I also see the notion to be on a case-by-case basis.

 

[KingTempest]

I'm perfectly fine with this working on a case by case basis.

 

[Shadyboi0]

It's really simple and it should be put as a note in the lifting strength page.

Weapons like swords and bats are used via using your lifting strength to apply force in attacks, unlike the strength of people punching which doesn't really correlate with it that much.

If you can't lift a weapon, you can't apply force with it, which means you have less AP with it.
If you can lift a weapon, you can apply force with it, which means you have more AP with it.
The harder you swing or the more you push a weapon, the more force behind it, which means more AP.

A note like below with preferably better wording should be put in place, like this.


Maybe it's redundant, but it should be noted.

An Example For Those Confused​

It would just be superior to the others, we wouldn't have to calculate it.

For example.

1st Man is 7-A with Class M lifting strength with a baseball bat he struggles to carry with 2 hands.
2nd Man is unknown but can easily carry that baseball bat with 1 hand.

2nd Man is now 7-A. Simple.

Deadass this is some 17-D logic. Agree.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do agree that at the very least, in order to lift something, a character needs AP matching or surpassing the GPE of an object as well as lifting strength. With characters who can casually carry the mass and GPE being seemingly stronger than someone who struggles to do the same and especially if the former can clearly hit harder with it. But beyond that, it is the one with the highest striking strength who hits the hardest rather than lifting strength if they both have lifting strength required to lift it casually.

 

[SomebodyData]

I'm fine with case by case, though I feel like there should be some focus that this is only for lifting weapons, and not general lifting strength.

 

[Starter_Pack]

Case-by-case works for me as well, working off of DDM's explanation. The concerns brought up by Bambu, however, are very valid, and deserve to be noted in this matter.

 

[KLOL506]

Case-by-case works for me as well, working off of DDM's explanation. The concerns brought up by Bambu, however, are very valid, and deserve to be noted in this matter.

Which is why we need to be particularly strict with what case can go through and what can't.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems like our staff have reached an agreement about case-by-case evaluations here.