Let's discuss about 4-C Starlight Glimmer

[Jackxagon]

Hi, I'm kinda new to this website, but I lurked months enough to know how it works.

I'm seeing that Starlight's profile has a 4-C status for her 2nd key (S5 finale onward).

My question would be: how was the calc done to determine that she's 4-C? was it by raw power, magic abilities, etc.

If it was by scaling from Twilight, I think it wouldn't be that accurate for some reasons:

S5 PREMIERE (I know that she's 6-B here, but I think it's important to address this) - Before Starlight's escape, Twlight easily blocked her most powerful spell (that she studied for years), so in raw power, Twilight is way stronger than her, and is able to defend against the cutie mark spell if not caught by surprise. This is relevant because I don't think she would jump from 6-B to 4-C in so little time, and, in my opinion, there's no clean feat that makes her a 4-C yet (aside from misinterpreted scaling like the one following below.)

S5 FINALE: - In their battle, she had a MAJOR advantage over Twilight, simply because she could manipulate time the way she wanted (with a Starswirl scroll, that contained the spell). So she could trigger the spell everytime Twilight had an upper hand (And that's what happened multiple times). If even with 100% battle control she wasn't able to get rid of Twilight in any way, shape or form, that would mean she can't be a 4-C, right? (or at least in the same power rank as Twilight) - Still in S5 finale, it makes sense to twilight exaust herself in one of the battles against starlight, while starlight was just waiting, doing her shenanigans, twilight had to go through several time loops, fight and escape from multiple enemies. So the logic in the last statement from the first item still applies here (If she scaled stamina from Twilight because of that scene, she would have less than her).

S6E21 (Every Little Thing She Does) - It was proved in S9 Premiere that you can only cancel a spell effect if you're stronger than its caster (Scene where Twilight tries to save Applebloom from Sombra's mind manip.). With that in mind,Twilight was able to undo not only one, but a combo of 3 spells casted from starlight. - The training at the start of the episode shouldn't count as a "who's stronger" situation, because it's just a simple spell training.


S7 FINALE (If anyone happens to use this absurd logic like Screwattack did on Raven vs) - (Scene where twilight struggles against weakened Pony of Shadows) Just because Starlight helped overpower PoS, doesn't mean she's stronger than Twilight. (a droplet of water that overflows a cup doesn't have more volume than the water into it already).

I'll be happy to further discuss about the topic. If I forgot anything, let me know.

 

[Firestorm808]

Feel free to add this to the group revision thread.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3173589

 

[Lightbuster30]

What the hell kind of water droplet helps you go from on the verge of losing, to completely overpowering the opponents attack? This logic is absolutely absurd.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

This doesn't make sense as Starlight has several statements of being compared to Twilight in raw power, and has shown warping even Celestia and Luna (which in MLP magic doesn't work unless you're either comparable or superior to the people you are using magic on) , and none of those feats are "easily done" or a casual effort on Twilights part.

Also the water droplet analogy doesn't fit.

 

[Jackxagon]

What the hell kind of water droplet helps you go from on the verge of losing, to completely overpowering the opponents attack? This logic is absolutely absurd.

that statement was a hyperbolic metaphor.

For better understanding, we could also use basic physics: (illustrative numbers, take it as an example, since it's just speculation)

Let's say PoS' second blast had a force of 100N, and since he was stronger than twilight, hers had to be lower than 100N, but not by that much, since she canceled his first shot (let's say it could have been 70N -> vs <- 70N, so the point of impact stood at the center). The second blast, being 70N -> vs <- 100N (70 - 100 = - 30N), for her to overcome that force in this example, she wouldn't necessarily need an additional 71N (or more) to do it. She would only need someone strong enough to add at least 31N into the equation. Since they were able to push back the blast rather easily, we could say the final result would be 120N -> vs <- 100N, an additional 50N from Starlight).

Just think as a reverse tug of war.

What I'm trying to say is: Starlight's blast could've very well been as powerful as Twilight's, or the difference in power between Twi and PoS could've not been that great and she was able to help with inferior force, but enough to overcome PoS. That's the problem, this scene is not helpful to prove the point. (I just antecipated myself and added that paragraph for those who would try to use this argument).

 

[Jackxagon]

This doesn't make sense as Starlight has several statements of being compared to Twilight in raw power, and has shown warping even Celestia and Luna (which in MLP magic doesn't work unless you're either comparable or superior to the people you are using magic on) , and none of those feats are "easily done" or a casual effort on Twilights part.
Also the water droplet analogy doesn't fit.

Could you please link some of those statements? Since I don't watch an episode as a whole more than once or twice, I tend to forget some things.

What I know is that the nullification of magic spells works that way (in order to resist or undo a spell, you have to be more powerful than the person who cast it). But I can't agree or disagree about magic efficiency in general, because I don't remember any scene that proves or disproves this statement. But feel free to show me. (I only remember Starswril being able to banish full-powered Pony of Shadows, even though he was was way weaker, but that might have had the artifacts and Ponehenge's magic involved, so I think that wouldn't work as a counter point.)

I don't think Royal Problem would be the best example, though. Celestia and Luna were caught by surprise, and ended up accepting the "trade" of cutie marks. But I agree that they wouldn't be able to revert the effect by themselves (at least not without deep research), since they knew nothing about that spell.

(Speaking of Royal Problem, why don't we have a Daybreaker page? That supernova was freaking INSANE!!!1!)

I always find it confusing the Attack Potency scaling of this site, since there are people who usually scales it from the opponent's power overall instead of durability ("if "X" can hurt "Y", who is 4-A, "X" is 4-A too, even if "Y" has a 6-B durability"). If I'm understanding it wrong, please correct me.

And for the water droplet analogy, I explained it better in the reply above.

 

[Firestorm808]

Just to be clear, you are saying that Starlight shouldn't be 4-C?

 

[Jackxagon]

Just to be clear, you are saying that Starlight shouldn't be 4-C?

It's more of "an explanation why is she 4-C in the first place" rather than "she shouldn't be".

The former implies doubt, which can be clarified with facts and feats done in the show. If anyone could bring a plausible counter argument for the questions I raised, I would agree about her being a 4-C.

The only thing is that I don't remember her doing a clear 4-C feat, even based on scaling (Explained in the first post). Ex: Twilight vs Sombra in S9, or Celestia vs Chrysalis, or even grogar vs the three villains.

I only find it strange that she jumped from 6-B to 4-C in so little time with no apparent reason. It's a HUGE difference in power. If I were to request a revision, I would suggest around 5-B for Starlight. Being way more powerful than a regular unicorn, but still below alicorns and Starswrill (Which raises the question "Why is everyone in MLP either a 4-C or 6-B, but no one is a 5-X?").

(I always see Starlight as "season 2 Twilight" with the trigger happy magic spells).