Knull upgrade

[Antvasima]

@Deagonx @Firestorm808 @Elizio33 @Emirp sumitpo @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura

What do you think about this?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The evidence here of Knull being the physical form of the Void isn't really compelling. He refers to the void as his home, rather than some extension of himself. He does state that the "void has teeth" but that's poetic language, I feel, in a string of poetic language.

I don't contest Knull coming back after being killed, just that he is some abstract representation of the void (presuming, that is, that this is all the evidence there is of such a claim- obviously more evidence would require more consideration).

 

[Roirr]

The evidence here of Knull being the physical form of the Void isn't really compelling. He refers to the void as his home, rather than some extension of himself. He does state that the "void has teeth" but that's poetic language, I feel, in a string of poetic language.

I don't contest Knull coming back after being killed, just that he is some abstract representation of the void (presuming, that is, that this is all the evidence there is of such a claim- obviously more evidence would require more consideration).

it would be the most logical situation here to say that it abyss has a physical form because celestials fill the universe with light, right after this we see knull who gets very angry and opens his eyes in the abyss to stop them, and it is also stated in a current handbook that knull was born in the abyss.

 

[Antvasima]

Being born in the abyss is not the same as being the abyss itself in its entirety.

 

[Roirr]

Being born in the abyss is not the same as being the abyss itself in its entirety.

We cannot say that Knull is the avatar of the Abyss, because in many places he is referred to as the lord of the abyss and he defines himself as such, so it is reasonable to think that he embodies the abyss

in any case, knull has immo 8 thanks to abyss, I think we agree on that, on the other hand, I can offer other arguments for AE type 2

 

[Antvasima]

I think that assuming that he is the abyss is far too speculative and unreliable.

 

[Valeska24]

It makes more sense that Knull is the incarnation of the abyss

 

[Roirr]

I think that assuming that he is the abyss is far too speculative and unreliable.

but sir, when we look at all the conditions here, the most reasonable situation is that it is the incarnation of the abyss, so we cannot ignore these situations.

 

[Roirr]

if we look at the celestials thing i talked about earlier, the only way is for it to be the abyss incarnation because nowhere is it said that the abyss has an avatar

 

[Antvasima]

Oblivion is the void/abyss. Knull just seems to be a powerful regular Marvel Comics deity.

 

[Roirr]

Oblivion is the void/abyss. Knull just seems to be a powerful regular Marvel Comics deity.

no,knull surpasses the gods in marvel qualitatively, also abyss has nothing to do with oblivion this has never been shown it is not the only void oblivion in marvel, the scale of knull goes all the way to Toba, and knull is the opposite of the beyonders race conceptually so knull has nothing to do with oblivion, he It is the aspect of the toba and is the embodiment of the abyss, which is a void.

 

[Roirr]

no,knull surpasses the gods in marvel qualitatively, also abyss has nothing to do with oblivion this has never been shown it is not the only void oblivion in marvel, the scale of knull goes all the way to Toba, and knull is the opposite of the beyonders race conceptually so knull has nothing to do with oblivion, he It is the aspect of the toba and is the embodiment of the abyss, which is a void.

i know these words take knull up to 1a/high 1a and give him a very strong HDE but most likely ultima will do that anyway

 

[Mr. Bambu]

but sir, when we look at all the conditions here, the most reasonable situation is that it is the incarnation of the abyss, so we cannot ignore these situations.

Could you provide evidence of this, given that the initial evidence does nothing to actually suggest this?

 

[Roirr]

Could you provide evidence of this, given that the initial evidence does nothing to actually suggest this?

as you know, the first moment we saw knull in the universe was the moment of celestials filling the universe with light, knull opened his eyes and was naturally very angry, if knull was some kind of aspect of abyss then it would definitely be stated that abyss was superior to knull but this was never stated On the contrary, it was stated the opposite, knull passed as the lord of the abyss, in this case we cannot call him an aspect of the abyss, let's look at another situation, you may think that the abyss, created a some kind of avatar, but this is impossible because as I said before, he is referred to as the lord of the abyss, that is, his avatar and aspect Now that we have eliminated, there is only one thing left, that knull is the embodiment of the abyss.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

as you know, the first moment we saw knull in the universe was the moment of celestials filling the universe with light, knull opened his eyes and was naturally very angry, if knull was some kind of aspect of abyss then it would definitely be stated that abyss was superior to knull but this was never stated On the contrary, it was stated the opposite, knull passed as the lord of the abyss, in this case we cannot call him an aspect of the abyss, let's look at another situation, you may think that the abyss, created a some kind of avatar, but this is impossible because as I said before, he is referred to as the lord of the abyss, that is, his avatar and aspect Now that we have eliminated, there is only one thing left, that knull is the embodiment of the abyss.

You're taking the lack of an opposite statement to mean the positive of your interpretation. I don't take that as strong evidence.

 

[Roirr]

You're taking the lack of an opposite statement to mean the positive of your interpretation. I don't take that as strong evidence.

yes because there is no reason to ignore this situation also it supports both what i said and the scans i send

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That's just straight up not how it works, though. Just because we can't prove something to be false doesn't mean we should assume it to be true.

 

[Roirr]

That's just straight up not how it works, though. Just because we can't prove something to be false doesn't mean we should assume it to be true.

why are you ignoring the things I said before, even if knull is not the incarnation of the abyss, it has immo 8 thanks to all kinds of abyss, and the situation that can be said for abyss is when we review a certain subject, the way is constantly going to be the incarnation of knull abyss, there is no way to ignore this situation. there is no reason and I can provide other arguments in AE type 2 for knull

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm not, I fully addressed what evidence you provided, and it's not strong evidence, so I reject the notion based on this that Knull is literally the Void. You haven't presented new evidence and at this rate it seems as though you won't do so. You didn't give context to his immortality, just showed him dying and said he came back later- if so, fair enough, ig, I expect the comicbros to address that if its wrong since you didn't provide evidence of that really, either.

 

[Roirr]

I'm not, I fully addressed what evidence you provided, and it's not strong evidence, so I reject the notion based on this that Knull is literally the Void. You haven't presented new evidence and at this rate it seems as though you won't do so. You didn't give context to his immortality, just showed him dying and said he came back later- if so, fair enough, ig, I expect the comicbros to address that if its wrong since you didn't provide evidence of that really, either.

there's nothing wrong here, I've already shown that knull is back, you're talking about not providing proof. All you say is (it's not strong) to everything I've presented, which is just for you, otherwise a lot of people here wouldn't accept crt I'm sure I'll present arguments for AE type 2 tomorrow You can be and I wouldn't be surprised if you decline.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I

addressed

your points?

You're pretending I didn't speak on them above?

Alright, I guess.

I've done my job here lol, I don't know what more is expected.

 

[Roirr]

I

addressed

your points?

You're pretending I didn't speak on them above?

Alright, I guess.

I've done my job here lol, I don't know what more is expected.

No, you didn't do your job here, on the contrary, you did the opposite. I actually think you're a marvel hater, I don't say this as an insult, I already respect you and I love you, but what you say on this crt shows that you act with your feelings, not logic, you didn't give me a logical argument to reject it, for example, Ant, a He presented an argument. He said that knull is an aspect of oblivion, he said that there is oblivion in his Abyss, so I said no and explained to him the truth of the matter. Oblivion is an Abstract that was born at the end of the 6th cosmos and at the beginning of the 7th cosmos. We already know that knull is much older he lives in first cosmos first firmament time, but you didn't present any arguments in this or that way, and you said: this is not a strong proof, I don't think it's void and similar things. i think you're looking for excuses and marvel haters people shouldn't come to marvel threads i think i understand you being a marvel hater things like that can happen you've already said that

 

[Excellence616]

. I actually think you're a marvel hater

Please, don't say that.

 

[Roirr]

No, you didn't do your job here, on the contrary, you did the opposite. I actually think you're a marvel hater, I don't say this as an insult, I already respect you and I love you, but what you say on this crt shows that you act with your feelings, not logic, you didn't give me a logical argument to reject it, for example, Ant, a He presented an argument. He said that knull is an aspect of oblivion, he said that there is oblivion in his Abyss, so I said no and explained to him the truth of the matter. Oblivion is an Abstract that was born at the end of the 6th cosmos and at the beginning of the 7th cosmos. We already know that knull is much older he lives in first cosmos first firmament time, but you didn't present any arguments in this or that way, and you said: this is not a strong proof, I don't think it's void and similar things. i think you're looking for excuses and marvel haters people shouldn't come to marvel threads i think i understand you being a marvel hater things like that can happen you've already said that

you are talking about is not a strong proof, believe me, if it really happened, 10 people accepted this CRT wouldn't actually accept it, for some reason it just seems like it's not enough proof for you, at least for now.

 

[Roirr]

Please, don't say that.

what he said shows that, sorry

 

[Mr. Bambu]

No, you didn't do your job here, on the contrary, you did the opposite. I actually think you're a marvel hater, I don't say this as an insult, I already respect you and I love you, but what you say on this crt shows that you act with your feelings, not logic, you didn't give me a logical argument to reject it, for example, Ant, a He presented an argument. He said that knull is an aspect of oblivion, he said that there is oblivion in his Abyss, so I said no and explained to him the truth of the matter. Oblivion is an Abstract that was born at the end of the 6th cosmos and at the beginning of the 7th cosmos. We already know that knull is much older he lives in first cosmos first firmament time, but you didn't present any arguments in this or that way, and you said: this is not a strong proof, I don't think it's void and similar things. i think you're looking for excuses and marvel haters people shouldn't come to marvel threads i think i understand you being a marvel hater things like that can happen you've already said that

Brother what are you talking about

"You didn't accept my revision so you're biased on a verse you never speak on and don't indulge in!!!"

You're pretending as though I've acted irrationally when the fact of the matter is, you've presented a small handful of screenshots and expected them to back up a notion far departed from what those screenshots and panels actually depict. You expect everyone to assume it is self evident that Knull MUST be an aspect or avatar or whatever terminology you'd like to use of the Abyss when that is simply not supported.

Since we're giving personal opinions, I'll give mine: I think you have seen too many instances where a character is spoken of in vague and perhaps esoteric terms and you now assume anything of the like MUST mean something much higher, and you lack the ability to differentiate between a meaningful description and fluff. I think you're so far down the rabbit hole of VS debating that you've legitimately lost sight of what is reasonable in favor of what is powerful, what is favorable.

Furthermore: You asked me here, buddy, which I obliged to because I hadn't had any negative experiences with you yet, despite my general perception that comic verse fans tend to be as insufferable as anime fans- a fact you seem to be actively trying to prove, and are doing a far better job of doing than whatever this CRT is meant to.

Since you have taken the opportunity to engage in extremely suspicious debating behavior ("Everyone who disagrees with me must be biased against the verse over any other possibility, and I will treat them as such") and that no staff has spoken in favor of your evidence (Ant has spoken lightly against it and Eficiente seems to have spoken from a more informative/neutral standpoint), I'm closing this and encourage you to do some thinking on what makes an effective CRT and what is actually evidence of what, and then try again with some actual proof.

EDIT: In hindsight, perhaps this could do with more staff input. Still, I feel as though it has crossed a great boundary in terms of rejecting good faith, so since evaluating staff can speak on locked threads, I encourage them to do so if they feel the need/want.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@CodeCCLL Asked me to post a final comment they felt would solve the thread. Make of it what you will.

OP:
-You may think that the abyss, created a some kind of avatar, but this is impossible because as I said before, he is referred to as the lord of the abyss,

Me:
-No, Knull was unaware of other cosmic beings when he was born in the Void so when he was awakened by the Celestials he took possession of the Abyss and saw himself as the Lord of the Abyss, that's all.

OP:
-Oblivion is an Abstract that was born at the end of the 6th cosmos and at the beginning of the 7th cosmos.

Me:
-No, It is the Chaos King, a small part of Oblivion's infinite self, born at the end of the 6th Cosmos and the beginning of the 7th Cosmos. (-Chaos War-)

-Oblivion is much older than Marvel Multiverse. According to the narrative True Form Oblivion is non-existence beyond even the "Outside", which is the void outside the existence of the First Firmament.

OP:
-No,knull surpasses the gods in marvel qualitatively, also abyss has nothing to do with oblivion this has never been shown it is not the only void oblivion in marvel, the scale of knull goes all the way to Toba, and knull is the opposite of the beyonders race conceptually so knull has nothing to do with oblivion, he It is the aspect of the toba and is the embodiment of the abyss, which is a void. (His answer to Ant.)

Me:
-True Form Oblivion (Nonexistence Type 2) is beyond the void of The Abyss (Nonexistence Type 1).

-Oblivion is wuji. "Nothingness and the void beyond all there is."
(Thor & Hercules: Encyclopaedia Mythologica #1; The Xian's entry)

-There should be scans in "Great Lakes Avengers #3" and "Mighty Thor Annual #1" that Oblivion includes the Abyss.

-This is the first time I've heard of Knull being an aspect of TOBA. This seems like pure speculation to me.

OP:
-Here's where you missed it when we look at his profile, he is said to be born between the 7th and the 6th cosmos, this is very wrong

Me:
-Yes, The Abyss has existed since First Firmament but we don't know when Knull was born. Even after Multiversal Eternity replaced the 6th Cosmos, the Celestials continued to create. We don't know when the Celestials encountered Knull. But we know that Knull existed Between the 6th and 7th Cosmos (Multiversal Eternity-7th Cosmos İteration) at least.

TL;DR:

With the addition of scans of Knull's birth and resurrection from the Abyss, I think that's fine.

Immortality (Type 1, 3, 4 and 8; Knull is the avatar of The Abyss that uses to fight the light. Even if Knull dies, can be returned by The Abyss)

I don't follow this because it has no scans nor does anything in this thread substantiate this, either, so for now I'm still on the "Reject the thread and wait for a better one to be made maybe" train.

 

[Deagonx]

In hindsight, perhaps this could do with more staff input.

I also disagree with the thread, and have a similar perspective on the OP's reasonability during disagreements, which is why I avoided this thread.