Kirby and fiction in general: No proof for magic Ôëá physical strength?

[Wokistan]

• I'll believe many fictional characters have their supernatural power types at the same levels, but I'll also assume they're literal gods.

Not sure what this means tbh

• It makes sense that characters' magic types are unequal levels, as magic is learned, just like music is learned and one may be better at violin than at flute.

I mean yeah I agree with this, but your examples aren't really the sort that would show a thing like this.

• My point is that the universe creator MH is defeated with a thi energy wall from Tabuu and the weaker-in-magic Ganondorf is defeated with a large energy ball also from Tabuu.

This really doesn't matter at all. Tabuu doesn't have to throw out universe sized attacks for everything, that's not how powerscaling works. Also not even the same series.

• I'd argue for SSB playable characters to be much lower than universe level in offensive magic, strength, and durability.

Again the wrong series

• This part of the dialogue can be interpreted as Kid Icarus humans being human level

Clearly not for Magnus though. Pit's questioning him being human because of how well he's doing, he clearly isn't restricted to tier 9. Again this isn't Kirby.

• I expect him to create boulder-sized boulders to satisfy the general public.

This is still just not relevant to anything. Again, the standard isn't going to be that literally everything a character does can be calced at a certain tier.

• The Starship being formed for him would be pointless if he didn't need it for his next mission, so the least problematic interpretation of the instance is that it's formed for him because he needs it.

Okay so the ship is stronger than him. cool

• It's argued that Kirby sends Marx flying with his last attack.

Which is relevant why exactly?

• I don't understand the first part.

He's saying that Nova isn't limited in tier just from how big it is

• I simply said the sun is the size of the moon, and I wanted to say he can't stop the moon-level sun and moon from fighting.

Why can't it be a sun sized moon instead? Why can't these guys just scale like every other series does as opposed to being hard capped at their sizes?

• It's either that or he's too weak to destroy the armor. By Occam's razor, it's the latter, especially given the fact that the armor isn't stated to be made of a special material.

No? A guy is known to hit hard and armor tanks it. The thing with the least assumption here is that the armor is strong, not that the stuff the guy did before is just randomly invalidated here. You're ignoring the concept of power scaling again.

• It's still related to physical strength, which the thread is actually about.

Not consistently enough across fiction to derive AP values from.

• Its lock being magical doesn't stop physical strength from being able to open it.

Why not? Why can't the locks just be that durable? 9-C every game with locked doors because you can't just break down everything? Isn't your own argument that the magic stuff is way stronger anyways?

• Jumping strength is another type of physical strength (see point 6 again).

Yeah but Kirby pretty clearly isn't linking the two. It's a pretty faulty thing to try to use to lower a tier. Show me some other tier 4s that fly off planets with every step because of all the force they're putting in to it.

• Again, she's not even squeezing him when he tries to break free from the vine.

This doesn't mean she isn't stronger than him

• The cutscene shows a shallow-rooted 1.4-meters-tall tree, not an enemy. Inhaling strength is another type of… Ok, you mayn't have seen I corrected the title of the thread (see point 6 again).

Kirby's mouth isn't the size of a solar system. What do you expect to happen here.

• Because it's the least problematic interpretation for each of such instances.

It's really not, since that makes it impossible to have the game be an actual game. May want to read up on the Game Mechanics bit

• / Magic/Reality Warping Power (specific types) / Physical strength (specific types) /

We already separate them when they are separate though. Doing anything to reformat 25k files is just not likely to happen

 

[Wokistan]

If anything, the argument you should be making is that the wide scale creation feats shouldn't scale to just random ass magic attacks. That would be a much better argument to make, since the scaling comes from them being able to take hits of the magic and also hurt each other physically.

 

[Somelatinguy]

Wall of text

0.1) It means non-omnipotent characters may have their magic types at unequal levels.

0.2) Let's see.

1.1) See the bolded words, "thin" for the attack against MH and "large" for the one against Ganondorf.

1.2) There can't be a wrong series in this thread; its title reads "[A]nd fiction in general."

- And even if there could, the SSB series and Kid Ikarus: Uprising were used in it because they were directed by Sakurai too, which tells us how his style is like.

2) I said "This part of the dialogue" (group of lines), not "This line."


2) But the more instances like that one the series has, the more likely is it that it's not an outlier.

3.1) Yes, it is.

3.3) Because if that were true, it'd be one of the 13 proofs needed to debunk this.

3.4a) Then either the sun and moon's physical strength is as high as the Nova's physical strength and magic power, or it's as high as the Nova's physical strength only.

- By Occam's razor, it's the latter, as they're supposed to be just a sun and moon, only sentient.

3.4b) In order for the moon to be star-sized, Pop Star would've to be large star-sized, which is impossible given its Earth-level gravity, as its density would be lower than stars'.

4) No, you're committing petitio principii.

6) Then both his physical strength and stamina are low, if not proven false, of course.

7) Doors with regular locks can be opened with regular keys or strong enough blows, and those with magical locks can be opened with magical keys or strong enough blows.

8) That argument assumes he's tier 4.

9) My argument isn't "She's not stronger than him", but actually "He can't break free from something that isn't even squeezing him."

10) It's not only the sizes, but also the tree having low mass, it being shallow-rooted, and him struggling to inhale it even though he uses Hypernova to do so.

11) It occurs in gameplay but doesn't affect any challenge, so it's not a game mechanic.


0.3) The system is wrong also because it only separates lifting and striking strength, whereas there are additional types such as jumping and inhaling strength, so physical strength should be noted as a whole unless a character is a higher level at a specific type.

- Reformatting of whatever amount of files is something that should happen.

 

[Antvasima]

We already separate them when they are separate though. Doing anything to reformat 25k files is just not likely to happen

This is obviously true. We simply do not remotely have the resources for this, especially as there are multiple other considerable revision projects going on right now.

 

[That.one.mofo]

<div wall of china replacement.

only talking about the Kirby stuff.
2.1. then how many stuff has d3 done that is impressive and how many did he not? the we'd know it's not a outlier

3.1. has star in it's name, so ya, impressive.

3.3. https://youtu.be/5f70-F8gs9w?t=151

3.4 it's not magic power it's reality warping. and either answer would be alright. - where does earths gravity come from? even though these are kids games and shouldn't have science and hard stuff to understand for kids.

4. don't really see the argument in this. if anything, if Kirby can't damage a character badly, they should have good durability.

5. he's been using star bullets and copy abilities since adventure. and yes if your wondering he does beat characters with his bare hands. https://youtu.be/PnbYBBCghBI

6. did anyone take into account what kirby did before he got the food? for anyone elses case, there power would be higher if they had more food but Kirby doesn't get any stronger from when he got tired to after fighting pix to aqua star.

7. then the door can take large, strong blows. think of the star door and the barrier from Undertale where only low multiversal attacks can destroy it. Kirby DOSEN'T EVEN TRY to open or destroy the door.

8. heh. https://youtu.be/IUky0DvqdeM?t=1031

9. if she doesn't even try to squeeze him then she must be far stronger... then his base form. there's a reason why she took him out his copy ability

10. guess what was planted in that tree https://youtu.be/OCdgMrODJ9A?t=328

11. they have a holy power that kirby dosen't. nuff said. they also wanted to help

12. no ones talking about this one but... cool, the star sparkler is stronger then kirby.

 

[Arceus0x]

you want proofs? okay, here are 15 proofs that kirby is far above what you describe.

1. Nightmare after an exhausting battle with kirby blew up a chunk out of the moon and kirby didn't give a crap

2. Magolor made a road made from stars and all his attacks were fueled with the master crown which had the power to create said road

3. kirby punches a planet in half

4. kirby punches another planet in half

5. kirby sends a meteor flying with a swing of a bat. said mteor flies 9999 lightyears and blows up 20 planets over the course of about 20 seconds.

6. Dark matter engulfs a planet, later gets clapped by kirby

7. magolor makes black holes which are calced to be large planet level. kirby and co. can tank it. kirby and co. can damage eachother.

8. Void termina is clearly stated to be a destroyer of worlds so... at least planet level

9. Magolor is stated to be a universal threat

10. star dream flips over dozens of stars casually

11. An exhausted void termina explodes, wiping out multiple solar systems

12. Dawcia turns the galaxy into paint overtime

13. star dream states that the fight with galacta knight would wipe out at least a couple of planets. note: star dream is a super computer who knows this kind of information like we know the back of our hands

14. some of the weakest characters can leave a crack on a planet.

15. Kirby lives through getting shot point blank by the halberd. Halberd can damage star dream who interscales with other characters.

 

[Antvasima]

Is there anything left to do here, or should we close this thread? It seems to go around in circles and not lead anywhere.

 

[EMagoIorSouI]

I propose we close it.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so.