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Kingdom hearts

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There is one thing I never understood, why are kingdom hearts characters are placed so low on the tier list?

The scailing of kingdom hearts is largely dependent on the perspective of "worlds", one theory being that the worlds are planets in a wider universe, or another saying that each worlds are separated universes, each with thier own laws of reality. While the "planet" theory would theoretically make sora star level there is more evidence to show that the worlds in KH are much larger, possibly infinitely larger than such, and that is what I will be explaining.


First we have to look at the size of these worlds, from a quick look they do indeed look like planets, however there are flaws with that theory, the first being world order. Each "world" in kingdom hearts has it's own world order, which is basically it's own laws of reality, these world orders can can be as insignificant as day and night cycle or as abstract as each world has it's own concept of an afterlife and sometimes even dimensionality (sora was able to "die" and be sent to Davy jones locker in the pirates world and was also able to traverse the realm of gods and the underworld in Olympus, all of these being separate dimensional spaces that still exist in the same worlds as mentioned).

While it hasn't been seen yet in KH as far as I know the secret reports stated that breaking the world order would cause a "butterfly effect" across the worlds, this is important because if all worlds were simply planets represented by the infinite stars then zues moving constellations would've easily broken the world order, also we have beings like the grand council woman (lilo and stitch world bbs) was stated in her bio as the "overseer of the universe" yet hasn't been seen in other worlds.

There is also the instance of scala ad caelum existing in a plane that was separated from the realm of light, yet it still had it's own starry sky, all of this is evidence that each world is it's own universe or even multiverse as some worlds have higher dimensional planes and separate realities like again Olympus, or wonderland.


Now then, with all that said let's move onto the 9 realms, these are 9 infinities that the worlds reside in, 7 of them were named in kingdom hearts melody of memories, they are the realms of light, darkness, in between, data, memory, sleep, data, and unreality.

These realms are states of infinity that transcend all higher dimensions and possibilities that exist in the infinite worlds that reside in them, some even surpassing conceptual existence as a whole, let me explain:

Light: the realm of light is a place where all worlds with living hearts reside, it's also the most random when it comes to individual world order, since it has worlds like port royal which was relatively normal laws of reality (excluding its other dimensions) bit alsonhas worlds like wonderland which has warped spatial laws. This realm also transcends all dimensionality as higher dimensional planes like the realm of gods, the underworld, the spirit realm, Neverland and all the dimensional associated with Halloween towns holiday dimensions are still part of the worlds that house them, so its likely the realm of light transcends the concept if space and time as a whole.

Dark: the realm of darkness is the realm which "dying" hearts reside, there is no limit to how many worlds reside here so its likely the same size as the realm of light, although that might still be beyond infinite, it was even stated that the realm of darkness has 0 time, meaning all who exist in it can reach inaccessible speeds, and since the realm of darkness destroys existence as stated by the reports, so existing here is also a great feat.

In between: the realm of twilight is a realm that exist separate from the concept of light and darkness and is usually considered a "void" beyond nonexistence, since every object or being that resides here is stated to not exist as a whole, it is also likely to be the same size as the other realms since it doesn't exist, meaning its size is beyond 0 which surpasses infinity.

Data: the realm of data is NOT the realm of unreality as stated in union cross, it is the datascape or metaverse that exists purely as digital data. Its size is unknown as the size of raw information/data in this realm can mimic that of worlds in other realms, which are again infinite.

Dream: the realm of dreams is a realm which we know next to nothing about, it is a realm in which worlds with "sleeping" hearts reside, this realm likely transcends time altogether as younger xehanort and other previously defeated adversaries can exist without a vessel to sustain them. Since the realm if dreams can hows any world from the previously explained realms its size is also likely far bigger than infinite.

Memory: the realm of memory is a cognitive realm which exists in the mental plane, not much is seen with the realm itself however it is shown that altering effects from memory can have adverse effects on the real world as seen when namine's memory manipulation changed kairi's charm, and how fixing soras memories also fixed his damaged heart.

Unreality: we know almost absolutely NOTHING about this realm, all we know is that it's a place where the master of masters stated light and darkness has 0 hold on it, meaning it's a separate plane of infinity altogether, its size could EASILY be considered beyond infinite as being "unreal" to the point where you existence beyond the realm of nonexistence would surpass even 0 since -0 isnt even a thing


All of this you have beings like kingdom hearts which can rewrite all of these endless, uncountable infinities and easily create a new as was xehanorts ultimate goal, wh eventually got beat by sora himself, with all of these realms transcending the concept of dimensionality and some existing beyond 0 (or even abstract principles like -0) sora and xehanort would easily scale to about High 1-C or even High 1-A.

But I am open to opinions
 
There is one thing I never understood, why are kingdom hearts characters are placed so low on the tier list?

The scailing of kingdom hearts is largely dependent on the perspective of "worlds", one theory being that the worlds are planets in a wider universe, or another saying that each worlds are separated universes, each with thier own laws of reality. While the "planet" theory would theoretically make sora star level there is more evidence to show that the worlds in KH are much larger, possibly infinitely larger than such, and that is what I will be explaining.


First we have to look at the size of these worlds, from a quick look they do indeed look like planets, however there are flaws with that theory, the first being world order. Each "world" in kingdom hearts has it's own world order, which is basically it's own laws of reality, these world orders can can be as insignificant as day and night cycle or as abstract as each world has it's own concept of an afterlife and sometimes even dimensionality (sora was able to "die" and be sent to Davy jones locker in the pirates world and was also able to traverse the realm of gods and the underworld in Olympus, all of these being separate dimensional spaces that still exist in the same worlds as mentioned).

While it hasn't been seen yet in KH as far as I know the secret reports stated that breaking the world order would cause a "butterfly effect" across the worlds, this is important because if all worlds were simply planets represented by the infinite stars then zues moving constellations would've easily broken the world order, also we have beings like the grand council woman (lilo and stitch world bbs) was stated in her bio as the "overseer of the universe" yet hasn't been seen in other worlds.

There is also the instance of scala ad caelum existing in a plane that was separated from the realm of light, yet it still had it's own starry sky, all of this is evidence that each world is it's own universe or even multiverse as some worlds have higher dimensional planes and separate realities like again Olympus, or wonderland.


Now then, with all that said let's move onto the 9 realms, these are 9 infinities that the worlds reside in, 7 of them were named in kingdom hearts melody of memories, they are the realms of light, darkness, in between, data, memory, sleep, data, and unreality.

These realms are states of infinity that transcend all higher dimensions and possibilities that exist in the infinite worlds that reside in them, some even surpassing conceptual existence as a whole, let me explain:

Light: the realm of light is a place where all worlds with living hearts reside, it's also the most random when it comes to individual world order, since it has worlds like port royal which was relatively normal laws of reality (excluding its other dimensions) bit alsonhas worlds like wonderland which has warped spatial laws. This realm also transcends all dimensionality as higher dimensional planes like the realm of gods, the underworld, the spirit realm, Neverland and all the dimensional associated with Halloween towns holiday dimensions are still part of the worlds that house them, so its likely the realm of light transcends the concept if space and time as a whole.

Dark: the realm of darkness is the realm which "dying" hearts reside, there is no limit to how many worlds reside here so its likely the same size as the realm of light, although that might still be beyond infinite, it was even stated that the realm of darkness has 0 time, meaning all who exist in it can reach inaccessible speeds, and since the realm of darkness destroys existence as stated by the reports, so existing here is also a great feat.

In between: the realm of twilight is a realm that exist separate from the concept of light and darkness and is usually considered a "void" beyond nonexistence, since every object or being that resides here is stated to not exist as a whole, it is also likely to be the same size as the other realms since it doesn't exist, meaning its size is beyond 0 which surpasses infinity.

Data: the realm of data is NOT the realm of unreality as stated in union cross, it is the datascape or metaverse that exists purely as digital data. Its size is unknown as the size of raw information/data in this realm can mimic that of worlds in other realms, which are again infinite.

Dream: the realm of dreams is a realm which we know next to nothing about, it is a realm in which worlds with "sleeping" hearts reside, this realm likely transcends time altogether as younger xehanort and other previously defeated adversaries can exist without a vessel to sustain them. Since the realm if dreams can hows any world from the previously explained realms its size is also likely far bigger than infinite.

Memory: the realm of memory is a cognitive realm which exists in the mental plane, not much is seen with the realm itself however it is shown that altering effects from memory can have adverse effects on the real world as seen when namine's memory manipulation changed kairi's charm, and how fixing soras memories also fixed his damaged heart.

Unreality: we know almost absolutely NOTHING about this realm, all we know is that it's a place where the master of masters stated light and darkness has 0 hold on it, meaning it's a separate plane of infinity altogether, its size could EASILY be considered beyond infinite as being "unreal" to the point where you existence beyond the realm of nonexistence would surpass even 0 since -0 isnt even a thing


All of this you have beings like kingdom hearts which can rewrite all of these endless, uncountable infinities and easily create a new as was xehanorts ultimate goal, wh eventually got beat by sora himself, with all of these realms transcending the concept of dimensionality and some existing beyond 0 (or even abstract principles like -0) sora and xehanort would easily scale to about High 1-C or even High 1-A.

But I am open to opinions
1-This need to be in a CRT
2-Scans?
 
Wanst there plans of a KH CRT to put them atleast at High 4-C because KH RN is super outdated
iirc High 4-C for KH was rejected a while back, and they're using High 6-A to scale Keyblade wielders, and 5-A for Xehanort. ALL OF WHICH I'll never get why.
 
if there's one thing I've learnt about this place, its that people really really love lowballing the wrong series, and wanking the wrong series as well.
 
iirc High 4-C for KH was rejected a while back, and they're using High 6-A to scale Keyblade wielders, and 5-A for Xehanort. ALL OF WHICH I'll never get why.
Multiverse level would only make sense if the "all worlds are planets" theory was true, but if each world is its own universe/multiverse, then having kingdom hearts itself scale to 1 world wouldn't make any sense whatsoever.

Remember all it took was 1 darkside to complete consume destiny islands: https://youtube.com/clip/UgzHYKRJDnnGxsBS6Jh4AaABCQ

And we know from 0.2 that it's the darksides themselves who created that massive darkness:

And sora clapped these beings on NUMEROUS occasions, which itself is a universe/ multiverse level feat. Bro forging the X - blade itself is a bigger feat than 4-C as you need a "higher dimensional clash" between light and darkness to forge it as stated in the DDD secret reports

("It is clear the blade was the inspiration for human-wrought Keyblades. The letter χ can be pronounced "key" or "kye" (leading to some confusion) and symbolizes the perfect crossing of light and darkness. The χ-blade can be forged via a high-dimensional clash between those two poles.")

And why do I say we should scale KH itself to 1-C - 1-A? simple, with the power of KH xehanort stated he could reset the entire verse, this includes the 9 realms that hows an unaccountably infinite amount of worlds (universes/multiverses) that aren't restricted by the laws of reality, conceptual existence, or even dimensionality as higher dimensional planes like the afterlife or the realm of gods are still limited to their own world.

So alone the 9 realms would be infinitely beyond multiverse level as they are beyond the concept of dimensionality, then theres KH, which is beyond even that.

So while I again apologize for this being in calc I didnt make this claim without proper reasoning.
 
if each world was a universe then Kingdom Hearts would be Multiverse level.

It wouldn't be multiverse level if each world was a planet. It'd be Universe level+/Low Multiverse level instead, which is what the current ranking is for it.
 
if each world was a universe then Kingdom Hearts would be Multiverse level.

It wouldn't be multiverse level if each world was a planet. It'd be Universe level+/Low Multiverse level instead, which is what the current ranking is for it.
If each world was a universe that would make the 9 realms multiverses (or something significantly more) and kingdom hearts COMPLETELY transcends the 9 realms which

Also if each world is a multiverse the same effect applies but to a greater scale
 
if each world was a universe then Kingdom Hearts would be Multiverse level.

It wouldn't be multiverse level if each world was a planet. It'd be Universe level+/Low Multiverse level instead, which is what the current ranking is for it.
I notice people just completely skip the 9 realms, they just go from worlds to kingdom hearts which is not the entire verse, remember that if each world is a universe, and an uncountably infinite amount of worlds exist in ONE realm, that would make the 9 realms themselves multiverse level. I already explained how each realm worked in the article but basically some realms transcend conceptual existence like the realm between and even the concept of reality like the realm of unreality. And again these realms are not limited by dimensionality, since worlds have higher dimensional planes that still exist inside them, and the realms are larher than all worlds.

So no, even if all worlds were mere universes KH itself wouldn't be just multiverse level
 
While I could actually see tier 1 KH and all, it's not with these arguments at all, there's nothing supporting each "state of reality" being infinitely above the other in a manner that qualifies for tier 1, and while there's some stuff to arguably push for stuff like the datascape, Castle Oblivion rooms from Sora's memories and Sleeping Worlds being tier 2 in size, the arguments brought in here are a bit too all over the place and with no scans to back them up.

Anyways, even if many places were as big as you've said, nothing but KH itself would scale, thus making it irrelevant, at least for now.
I'd suggest just DMing me for more information, there's some revisions on the works and TBH this just makes our work unnecessarily harder.

Can a staff member please close this? I symphatize with these thoughts, but they're just not... usable for or purposes as they are right now.
 
I was asked to move and close this thread.

Somebody else already moved it though.
 
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