Kill La Kill downgrades

[LordGinSama]

Something odd that I've noticed about some of our Kill La Kill profiles is how we implement the tiering for Attack Potency for weapons.

This being 6-A Scissor Blade and Bakuzan. This really shouldn't be noted in the AP section, these weapons are depended on the swing force of the user. Are they that high in durability? Yes, are they that high whenever anyone is using them? No.


Both of these weapons are dependent on the strength of the user. A blade cannot generate AP without the user actively swinging it with force behind it, it being able to damage Ryago is a result of the user's strength, not just the weapon itself. I'd be fine with it having that level of durability but attack potency? That should definitely be removed imo.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Uhhhhhhh... dude. Should a weapon not have AP in their own dang page?

A guy with literal unknown AP with 9-B+ dura easily harmed a High 7-C with one and later they harmed an actual 6-A.

 

[azontr]

Uhhhhhhh... dude. Should a weapon not have AP in their own dang page?

A guy with literal unknown AP with 9-B+ dura easily harmed a High 7-C with one and later they harmed an actual 6-A.

This. Bakuzan and the Scissor Blade have this because they regularly harm higher-tiered characters than their wielder. This is like saying a 5-A weapon is only 5-A if wielded by a 5-A character.

 

[LordGinSama]

Uhhhhhhh... dude. Should a weapon not have AP in their own dang page?

A guy with literal unknown AP with 9-B+ dura easily harmed a High 7-C with one and later they harmed an actual 6-A.

Scans for the 9-B+ harming said High 7-C and 6-A? It still feels and sounds incredibly odd giving a weapon 6-A AP whenever in most conventional cases that's dictated by the attack potency and force of the character utilizing said weapon.

 

[azontr]

At the end of the video Satsuki cuts off Ragyo's head, and do note that Satsuki is not yet 6-A in this key.

 

[azontr]

She also stabs through Ragyo at the beginning so there's also that. Was skipping through the video so I didn't notice lol.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Scans for the 9-B+ harming said High 7-C and 6-A? It still feels and sounds incredibly odd giving a weapon 6-A AP whenever in most conventional cases that's dictated by the attack potency and force of the character utilizing said weapon.

First of all, please downgrade all of these weapons.

Excalibur (Fate)

The legendary magic sword Excalibur, crystallised by the wishes of humanity within the Earth and guarded by Fairies, until the Lady of the Lake presented it to King Arthur and later returned to the lake before her untimely death. Tier: High 6-C, Low 6-B with Blast | High 6-C, Low 6-B with Blast...

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Lokomo Sword

The Lokomo Sword is a sword from The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks. It is given to Link by Anjean after he acquires the Bow of Light. Anjean states that the Lokomo Sword was made and once used by one of the Spirits of Good. Because of this, she thinks it will come in handy in the fight against...

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Crucible (DOOM)

The Crucible is a blade forged from argent energy from the pools of Taras Nabad, it was a sword designed to slay demons and titan-class enemies, and it is wielded by the Doomguy during his stay with the night sentinels. Losing the hilt after impaling the dreaded Dreadnought, it was only regained...

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Riptide

Riptide is deciphered from the Greek name, Anaklusmos. It is the prized sword of Percy Jackson that is made of Celestial Bronze, a material that is only deadly on gods, demigods, Titans, Giants, and monsters. It does not affect mortals, as it just passes through them harmlessly. The sword is a...

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European Longsword

A longsword is a type of European sword characterized as having a cruciform hilt with a grip for two-handed use (around 16 to 28 cm (6 to 11 in)) and a straight double-edged blade of around 85 to 110 cm (33 to 43 in). It was prevalent during the late medieval and Renaissance periods...

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Grass Sword

The Grass Sword was Finn's sword from the episode "Blade of Grass" which replaced Joshua's broken demon blood sword. He buys it from the Grassy Wizard, who cursed the sword so it will bond itself to its owner for eternity. Tier: 5-A Name: Grass Sword Origin: Adventure Time Age: Unknown...

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Katana (Real Life)

The Katana is a type of single-edged longsword indigenous to Japan. It first saw use during the Muramachi period of Japan's history, just prior to the rise of Oda Nobunaga. Since then, its decidedly impressive design and former status as a symbol of nobility has ingrained it into pop culture...

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Second of all, 2:16 is your target.

 

[LordGinSama]

First of all, please downgrade all of these weapons.

First of all, don't bring in different verses especially ones with Universal Energy Systems like Fate. Secondly, swords that are based on irl stuff like the Long Sword Page are entirely dependent on the user. That page in particular uses the average adult, obviously an infant or child isn't gonna swing it with 9-B force.

Second of all, 2:16 is your target.

Yeah I'm definitely calling bullshit here. That guy is obviously relative to Nui, considering whenever she cut him it didn't cleave through him. A 9-B would have been completely severed by a 6-A weapon. A 6-A only giving a 9-B superficial wounds makes zero sense.

At the end of the video Satsuki cuts off Ragyo's head, and do note that Satsuki is not yet 6-A in this key.

Either that or Ragyo is a glass canon. Is there any sort of Universal Energy System in the verse that would equate her Attack Potency to her durability? And does she have feats of actually having 6-A durability?

 

[azontr]

First off, no, she isn't a glass cannon. Like, at all. She has 6-A durability on her profile so that's what we go with as Kill la Kill has no UES.

 

[DaReaperMan]

First of all, don't bring in different verses especially ones with Universal Energy Systems like Fate. Secondly, swords that are based on irl stuff like the Long Sword Page are entirely dependent on the user. That page in particular uses the average adult, obviously an infant or child isn't gonna swing it with 9-B force.

Yeah I'm definitely calling bullshit here. That guy is obviously relative to Nui, considering whenever she cut him it didn't cleave through him. A 9-B would have been completely severed by a 6-A weapon. A 6-A only giving a 9-B superficial wounds makes zero sense.

Either that or Ragyo is a glass canon. Is there any sort of Universal Energy System in the verse that would equate her Attack Potency to her durability? And does she have feats of actually having 6-A durability?

Funnily enough Fate itself is inconsistent with its weapons like that. And I'm bringing other verses in because they fall under your reasons for wanting to want to downgrade

Or, maybe, just maybe, Nui was casual and clearly overwhelmed the man when she decided to actually try a bit.

Why would she be a Glass cannon when she does physical combat, something she shouldn't be able to do if she actually didn't have 6-A dura.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

Fictional verses don't need consistent physics for their profiles to make sense, people very rarely write over the top action scenes with realism in mind. Applying such logic blanketly to all verses regardless of circumstances doesn't make sense nor should it be the standard all verses have applied to them. Weapons having higher ap then their wielder is extremely common in fiction (especially over the top anime such as Kill La Kill)

One or two characters who are too weak to wield it theoretically isn't enough to discount it's other reliably scaled feats.

 

[LordGinSama]

Funnily enough Fate itself is inconsistent with its weapons like that. And I'm bringing other verses in because they fall under your reasons for wanting to want to downgrade

Not quite, they have different reasoning entirely, namely the fact that most of those are relative to the user's or have an energy system to support them being that tier.

Or, maybe, just maybe, Nui was casual and clearly overwhelmed the man when she decided to actually try a bit.

Even a casual High 7-C utilizing a 6-A weapon would effortlessly cleave through a 9-B. And even if Nui herself has no say in how much force is used with the Scissor Blade, as it's 6-A by itself regardless. Although I'd be willing to discount this as PIS.

Why would she be a Glass cannon when she does physical combat, something she shouldn't be able to do if she actually didn't have 6-A dura.

Ragyo is shown literally getting slashed into bits by physically weaker opponents, and Newtons second law only works with actual physical combat. Ragyo isn't a hand to hand combatant so she doesn't need to tank the full force of her own blows, since the force of the blows would be majorly absorbed by whatever weapon she's using, and has regeneration so she doesn't even need to worry about getting "damaged."

It's also worth noting that she's been damaged by much less than 6-A attacks in the past.

 

[LordGinSama]

First off, no, she isn't a glass cannon. Like, at all. She has 6-A durability on her profile so that's what we go with as Kill la Kill has no UES.

What's on her profile is irrelevant if there's a CRT going on to discuss what's on the profile to begin with. Stats in profile are not sold and are capable of being questioned. And as I've shown above, she's been hurt by much weaker attacks before.


Also if she had 6-A durability then she wouldn't be cut into bits by the Scissor Blades and Bakuzan which are 6-A. They cut through her like butter, meaning her durability couldn't without that type of force.

 

[azontr]

Then your clearly not questioning Bakuzan's and the Scissor Blade's AP but Ragyo's durability, to begin with, lol. It's also possible that she simply downscales from said weapons, which is used in various profiles.

 

[LordGinSama]

Then your clearly not questioning Bakuzan's and the Scissor Blade's AP but Ragyo's durability, to begin with, lol.

Meh it's interchangeable really, but yeah I suppose it's more of an issue on her durability.

It's also possible that she simply downscales from said weapons, which is used in various profiles.

If she's downscaling from 6-A then if it's baseline she should be dropped to High 6-B+ instead depending on where she falls. And I'm not even sure if downscaling is an option considering they mutilated her on every occasion they where used on her.

 

[azontr]

I'll look for a 6-A calc since I don't really see any other option than downscaling as she most definitely isn't scaling to any of the other ratings lower than 6-A. The gun bullcrap can probably be disregarded as PIS or an outlier, if I'm not mistaken, given that's like, the only instance of that ever happening, I think.

 

[DaReaperMan]

"Even a casual High 7-C utilizing a 6-A weapon would effortlessly cleave through a 9-B. And even if Nui herself has no say in how much force is used with the Scissor Blade, as it's 6-A by itself regardless. Although I'd be willing to discount this as PIS."

Thats not what the feat is here though? Its a 9-B cutting a High 7-C. When Nui used the same sword against Isshin he immediately died.
"Ragyo is shown literally getting slashed into bits by physically weaker opponents, and Newtons second law only works with actual physical combat."

With weapons that have the cutting power to injure her, yes

"Ragyo isn't a hand to hand combatant so she doesn't need to tank the full force of her own blows, since the force of the blows would be majorly absorbed by whatever weapon she's using, and has regeneration so she doesn't even need to worry about getting "damaged."

Literally 90% of her fights are her punching or kicking the shit out of her opponents. She only ever used a weapon in one fight.

"It's also worth noting that she's been damaged by much less than 6-A attacks in the past."

She wasnt 6-A here, that flashback happened before she infused herself with life fibers

Ragyo isn't a hand to hand combatant

 

[azontr]

Kill la Kill: S.S Naked Sun Durability

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I believe this is the calc that the 6-A's scale to given I can't find anything else, and it most certainly isn't baseline 6-A.

 

[LordGinSama]

Kill la Kill: S.S Naked Sun Durability

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I believe this is the calc that the 6-A's scale to given I can't find anything else, and it most certainly isn't baseline 6-A.

1 Petaton is very much low end 6-A albeit the tier itself isn't that big. That being said, what said weapons were doing to her I'd be fine with her durability scaling to baseline 6-A which starts at 720 Teratons. However I still find it odd that she gets slashed into bits by attacks that aren't that much stronger than her going by numbers.


Next question, has she shown the ability to lower her durability like how Alucard from Hellsing actively does? If so then I suppose it's fine.

 

[azontr]

1 Petaton is very much low end 6-A albeit the tier itself isn't that big. That being said, what said weapons were doing to her I'd be fine with her durability scaling to baseline 6-A which starts at 720 Teratons. However I still find it odd that she gets slashed into bits by attacks that aren't that much stronger than her going by numbers.


Next question, has she shown the ability to lower her durability like how Alucard from Hellsing actively does? If so then I suppose it's fine.

Low-end but not baseline. I also don't know about the durability lowering thing.

 

[DaReaperMan]

1 Petaton is very much low end 6-A albeit the tier itself isn't that big. That being said, what said weapons were doing to her I'd be fine with her durability scaling to baseline 6-A which starts at 720 Teratons. However I still find it odd that she gets slashed into bits by attacks that aren't that much stronger than her going by numbers.


Next question, has she shown the ability to lower her durability like how Alucard from Hellsing actively does? If so then I suppose it's fine.

She literally beats the shit out of most opponents physically and has only used a weapon in one fight as I said earlier, she literally has no reason for her durability to downscale at all because Guns(Even disregarding she didn't have life fibers yet) have consistently been shown to not even be able to pierce life fibers.

no.

 

[azontr]

I'm honestly not for downscaling personally but I don't have all the relevant information or scans given I haven't watched Kill la Kill in a long while. By a long while, I mean like a month lol.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Actually I misremebered, she had just gotten Life Fibers at that point, but nowhere near the extent where she could've been 6-A, so it is PIS lol

 

[LordGinSama]

Thats not what the feat is here though? Its a 9-B cutting a High 7-C. When Nui used the same sword against Isshin he immediately died.

Because that's obviously not the feat I'm referring to? I'm talking about Isshin being a 9-B and not getting cleaved into two from a 6-A weapon being swung by a High 7-C. The first strike only left a slash wound, and not a deep one at that. The second attack was her literally driving the blade into him, with her applying direct force via pushing.

With weapons that have the cutting power to injure her, yes

More like cut into ribbons by something that's low end. It especially doesn't help your case that her durability section literally has zero justifications.

She literally beats the shit out of most opponents physically

Which means jack all whenever she's beating the shit out of weaker opponents, and getting mutilated by something that's 6-A, despite being "6-A" herself. She's shown to have lower durability than her attack potency, Bakuzan and The Scissor Blade are shown cutting her into bits.

and has only used a weapon in one fight as I said earlier,

She literally used a weapon more than once, see her fight fight both Ryuko and Satsuki. She used weapons for the majority of her fight against these two, and was only capable of blocking hits from them while utilizing her swords.

she literally has no reason for her durability to downscale at all because Guns(Even disregarding she didn't have life fibers yet) have consistently been shown to not even be able to pierce life fibers.

Aside from that fact she's shown literally getting cut into bits by weapons that are only slightly above Baseline 6-A? Unless they have durability negation, which they don't then they shouldn't have been able to do so unless they were that much stronger than her durability. And by saying this you'd in turn have to agree with her downscaling from 6-A.

no.

10/10 argument, makes me reminiscent of WeeklyBattles.

 

[azontr]

10/10 argument, makes me reminiscent of WeeklyBattles.

This wasn't an argument I believe he was responding to the shit about Ragyo having a durability lowering ability akin to Alucard's, which she does not have at all to my knowledge.

 

[Baken384]

i disagree with this downgrade

 

[DaReaperMan]

Because that's obviously not the feat I'm referring to? I'm talking about Isshin being a 9-B and not getting cleaved into two from a 6-A weapon being swung by a High 7-C. The first strike only left a slash wound, and not a deep one at that. The second attack was her literally driving the blade into him, with her applying direct force via pushing.

More like cut into ribbons by something that's low end. It especially doesn't help your case that her durability section literally has zero justifications.

Which means jack all whenever she's beating the shit out of weaker opponents, and getting mutilated by something that's 6-A, despite being "6-A" herself. She's shown to have lower durability than her attack potency, Bakuzan and The Scissor Blade are shown cutting her into bits.




She literally used a weapon more than once, see her fight fight both Ryuko and Satsuki. She used weapons for the majority of her fight against these two, and was only capable of blocking hits from them while utilizing her swords.

Aside from that fact she's shown literally getting cut into bits by weapons that are only slightly above Baseline 6-A? Unless they have durability negation, which they don't then they shouldn't have been able to do so unless they were that much stronger than her durability. And by saying this you'd in turn have to agree with her downscaling from 6-A.

10/10 argument, makes me reminiscent of WeeklyBattles.

Because the attack, you know, didn't have the sword at a place where it would cut him in two

Or, just maybe, it actually upscales from her tier! That's such a shocking thing to suggest, I know!

Uh Houston, post-junketsu Ryúko and Sats ARE 6-A and she literally Kicked sats and Punched her.

That's cause her swords are made of the same shit the Scissor blades are made of.

They're 6-A upscaling from Ragyo, here's the chain: Scissor blades/Bakuzan/Ragyo's swords > Ragyo > Sats and Ryuko > Naked Sun > Primordial Life Fibers.

Oh wow, i wonder what i was responding to with that "no", I'll give you a hint, it was below your argument!

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also her swords literally cut Ryuko in half, I think that's a wee bit stronger then Ragyo did when she punched and kicked Ryuko's equal.

 

[DaReaperMan]

And before you say it, piercing damage is also a real thing.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Also her swords literally cut Ryuko in half, I think that's a wee bit stronger then Ragyo did when she punched and kicked Ryuko's equal.

It's literally stated that the Scissor Blades and Bakuzan were based on Ragyo's Swords when they first start fighting in episode 23.

 

[DaReaperMan]

It's literally stated that the Scissor Blades and Bakuzan were based on Ragyo's Swords when they first start fighting in episode 23.

Even more reason the Scissor blades upscale from Ragyo.

 

[LordGinSama]

Because the attack, you know, didn't have the sword at a place where it would cut him in two

We both know that's not an argument. Again, if a 6-A weapon attacks a 9-B then the 9-B would have been spilt regardless of where they were struck.

Or, just maybe, it actually upscales from her tier! That's such a shocking thing to suggest, I know!

Oh sarcasm! I also remember using sarcasm as a means of dismissing arguments whenever I was 12. Upscaling requires evidence, not a half assed random statement with zero backing.

Uh Houston, post-junketsu Ryúko and Sats ARE 6-A and she literally Kicked sats and Punched her.

Both of which are irrelevant, as the KE is getting absorbed by the opponent's own body. I'd suggest taking a crash course of how energy distribution works before attempting to use Newtons Third law without actually knowing what it even is.

That's cause her swords are made of the same shit the Scissor blades are made of.

Which again, is irrelevant as she's never shown physically blocking or defending from their attacks.

They're 6-A upscaling from Ragyo, here's the chain: Scissor blades/Bakuzan/Ragyo's swords > Ragyo > Sats and Ryuko > Naked Sun > Primordial Life Fibers.

Ragyo literally broke Bakuzan with her hands. Bakuzan definitely doesn't up scale from Ragyo considering she broke both with her grip strength alone.

Ragyo's AP > Ragyo's durability. She can break shit that's shown to damage her tremendously.

Oh wow, i wonder what i was responding to with that "no", I'll give you a hint, it was below your argument!

I'll give you that much lol.

 

[DaReaperMan]

We both know that's not an argument. Again, if a 6-A weapon attacks a 9-B then the 9-B would have been spilt regardless of where they were struck.

Oh sarcasm! I also remember using sarcasm as a means of dismissing arguments whenever I was 12. Upscaling requires evidence, not a half assed random statement with zero backing.

Both of which are irrelevant, as the KE is getting absorbed by the opponent's own body. I'd suggest taking a crash course of how energy distribution works before attempting to use Newtons Third law without actually knowing what it even is.

Which again, is irrelevant as she's never shown physically blocking or defending from their attacks.

Ragyo literally broke Bakuzan with her hands. Bakuzan definitely doesn't up scale from Ragyo considering she broke both with her grip strength alone.

Ragyo's AP > Ragyo's durability. She can break shit that's shown to damage her tremendously.

I'll give you that much lol.

Welcome to fiction, also I have doubts the human body would even allow that.

How about being comparable to swords that cut Ryuko in two? Something Ragyo physically couldn't do?

buzzer sound she sent Sats flying on two separate occasions with no visible damage to her person. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction... oh wait. What did Ragyo do to Sats again that I said above?

Doesn't matter due to the fact she physically Punched and kicked Sats without being visibly damaged herself.

By your logic she should have destroyed her hand doing that, take a crash course Newton's Third Law

See above.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Also Bazukan is a Katana, Katanas are made in such a way that makes the edge significantly harder and more durable then the actual body of the weapon. That's why Ragyo was able to snap it easily, she broke the body of the blade and the edge followed suit.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I disagree with this Revision for DaReaperMan's Reasons.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

I also disagree for Reapers reasons+my own earlier.

 

[azontr]

I sorta disagree as well because **** you Gin for reasons above as well, but will wait for Gin's arguments before coming to a solid conclusion.

 

[Nierre]

**** you Gin

 

[LordGinSama]

Welcome to fiction, also I have doubts the human body would even allow that.

Welcome to Power Scaling where in fiction human bodies are much harder than they are in real life. Doubts? With all due respect, if you literally think that a human body wouldn't get severed by a 6-A blade then you've been smoking on some real good shit.


9-B Bones and flesh aren't stopping a 6-A Blade.

How about being comparable to swords that cut Ryuko in two? Something Ragyo physically couldn't do?

This comment is literally contradiction. How is she comparable to the swords that cut Ryuko in half when in the same sentence you say that it's something Ragyo can't do herself with her own physical stats?

buzzer sound she sent Sats flying on two separate occasions with no visible damage to her person. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction... oh wait. What did Ragyo do to Sats again that I said above?

Once again, not how Newton's second law works whenever your transferring the majority of the kinetic energy into the opponent. It's not like Ragyo is striking a stationary brick wall.

Doesn't matter due to the fact she physically Punched and kicked Sats without being visibly damaged herself.

Which again, that's not how that works.

By your logic she should have destroyed her hand doing that, take a crash course Newton's Third Law

First of all genius Newtons Third law isn't even relevant here. Newton's Third Law is whenever two bodies push against each other, if one force is overpowering the other force and flinging them meters away then there is no "opposite and equal reaction."


Satsuki isn't pushing against Ragyo with equal force. Newton's Third Law also has to do with force, not energy.


Before you tell me to take a crash course (very original copying what I told you btw.) I'd suggest learning the difference between Newtons Third law and Energy transferal before you @ me again.



Ragyo's durability doesn't scale to the AP of the Scissor Blades or Bakuzan. Each weapon turned her into shreds, now if you wanna scale her to being above the Naked Sun and such that's fine. But direct scaling to the weapons for her durability is a huge no.

 

[LordGinSama]

I sorta disagree as well because **** you Gin for reasons above as well, but will wait for Gin's arguments before coming to a solid conclusion.

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