Kharn's Blessing of the Blood God

[C2_of_Omegon]

We need to address the grox in the room. While Kharn's page is pretty good, it needs a little work. Kharn's biggest claim to fame is his Blessing of the Blood God, which negates supernatural abilities and even weapons that attempt to affect Kharn.

This sounds straight forward. However, it's wrapped up in Khorne's concepts of honor and fair play. People not familiar with 40k and Kharn in particular will have a hard time dealing with this guy (finding matches, constructing arguments) if they don't know the limits of the ability. I propose that we get together a list of examples, define 'Honorable Combat' and then add it to Kharn's page so to better outline the ability.

 

[Schnee_One]

Speaking of Kharn, his speed stat is inconsistent.

He's scaled from people with likely FTL+ to possibly MFTL+ reactions.

 

[Antvasima]

You can politely ask Azathoth to comment here if you wish.

 

[Schnee_One]

Azathoth is away with his girlfriend, so that's not going to happen for a little while.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, he is still here. He simply does not have time to contribute as much.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Off the top of my head, the most commonly negated things are stuff like unnatural powers/abilities, force weapons and similar relics, and ranged attacks used while trying to play keep away. I can dig up some specific examples, later.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Would the blessing nullify the universe spontaneously being destroyed/ceasing to exist?

 

[Schnee_One]

Elaborate

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Like, the universe being destrroyed when 682 dies, its not something 682 itself causes, rather just a byproduct of its death, would that be nullified?

 

[Schnee_One]

Yeah it would, a universe self destruction would definitely be unfair.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

But its not a self-destruction, its not even something 682 itself causes

 

[Schnee_One]

I still don't see why Khorn wouldn't negate it.

Oh if one of my best men kills this guy he's screwed! That's not fair at all.

It'd be like killing a boss and dying anyway to means you can't control.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So widespread environmental damage is unfair now...?

 

[Schnee_One]

What?

How is destroying the entire universe and killing everyone in it environmental damage?

 

[The_Everlasting]

I'm almost positive Khorne doesn't negate stronger attacks.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Okay, to help define this a bit, I'm going to show this excerpt from 4chan on Khorne , who is the crux of the matter as it's his definition of fair and unfair that matters in respect to Kharn's Blessing.

It's a little long but I believe it gives us valuable insight here.

Khorne's take on magic
"As posted by an Anon some time ago, he perfectly summed up what Khorne's opinion on magic is: F*CK WIZARDS!!!!

Okay, here's what the "F*CK WIZARDS" thing means.

Note that the hate of psykers/wizards/etc is pretty much the exact same and works by the same logic for both Khornates and the SoB/Black Templar/etc. Its a Conan-esque kind of swords and sorcery thing. Khornates hate wizards for trivializing encounters with a single spell and overshadowing fighters. They hate turning what should be a military endeavor into a weird wizard show where people turn into frogs. They hate Slaaneshi for the same reason, they take what should be a wholesome murder fest and make it into something creepy and weird, what with them "discomporting themselves with the dead" and all that. In Realms of Chaos, its entirely possible for a librarian or wizard to go to Khorne. They just refrain from using their powers, and only use their psi/magic (in combat) to resist spells from that point onward.

They are okay with laser beams. They are okay with sniper rifles. They are okay with flaming swords. They are okay with running people over with tanks. They are okay with chemical gas. They are okay with exterminatus. They are okay with holocausts. They are okay with blitzkriegs. They are okay with honorable duels at dawn.

They are not okay with turning people to frogs, mind controlling people, raining glitterdust from the skies to blind everyone, raising armies of zombies to do the killing for you, and so forth. They are not okay with someone pointing their finger and you dropping dead. They are okay with rituals to summon demons. They are okay with navigating the warp without crashing into suns. They are okay with sending astropathic messages. They are okay with chaining wizards up and forcing them to eternally forge magic items on pain of death.

You may consider it hypocritical that Khornates are okay with blatantly unfair TECHNOLOGICAL murder, but not okay with blatantly unfair MIND/MAGICAL murder, but the point, or at least one interpretation, is that wizards/psykers ******* cheat. They do. They steal the power of the Warp for their own ends. As long as they stay in line, and do nothing but permit the warrior to enact his craft, fine, let them live, albeit in terror, enslaved by chains of brass until the day they are no longer useful, at which point their skulls can join Khorne's throne.

But stealing the Gods' own fire and using it to do what mortals should do through their own skill and strength is unacceptable. Remember that technology is completely valid to Khorne. Stealth is completely valid to Khorne. Skill is completely valid to Khorne. Cleverness is completely valid to Khorne. The nuclear bomb and other innovations that come after it could be seen to be unfair. But it is a mortal invention. Mortals should give honor to Khorne by murdering each other through the sweat of their brow.

The scientist who devises new ways to kill is a saint. His work can be put to any other use -- enriching human life, ending hunger, fighting diseases, answering great questions. But the scientist who devises new bombs and weapons is, in his own way, a champion of Khorne. He takes his limitless human potential and nobly limits himself to new ways to kill. Whether you kill with a sword or a bomb, you are killing using good old fashioned mortal strength and genius. You aren't stealing warp energy from the gods in the form of a fireball and cravenly calling it your own.

The forger of enchanted weapons, though deserving of slavery and abuse as all wizards are until the day they die, is an ideal symbol. It is fitting that spell energy be subjugated to and entombed within cold steel, just as wizards deserve to be subjugated to warriors until they lie cold and headless in the ground or else burnt to ash. The magic weapon is a symbol of might's superiority to magic."

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So is the universe being destroyed by natural means considered unfair or not?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Do you mean like the heat death of the universe or something? No, because it would not be a factor in a fight.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I mean like when 682 dies, the universe cannot sustain itself and is destroyed.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Depends. Timeframe? Circumstance? Etc? Stuff like that matters. Though the Chaos Gods have always seen the destruction of the universe as amusing, so I don't see why they'd prevent it.

 

[FateAlbane]

Long story short: Kharn kills 682, Universe blows up. Would Khorne's blessing save Kharn or would he be ded?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Fate

He'd probably just **** off to the Eye of Terror and watch the fireworks. It's not like he hasn't spent centuries upon centuries there.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Instantly and when 682 is killed

Edit: Ninjaed by Fate

 

[Hellbeast1]

I agree with the OP's suggestions, we need to tell debaters not familiar with Kharn's anti hax exactly what is and isn't considered cheating by the Blood God.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Azzy So no?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

But yeah a list of what is and isnt unfair is a definite necessity

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Weekly

Basically

Would Khorne prevent the destruction of the universe?

No.

Would Khorne let Kharn die with it?

Probably not, since losing his favorite mortal servant for no reason serves no purpose and is less entertaining.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

But could he revive Kharne if he were caught in it?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Weekly

Unless Kharn's essence was wasted as hard as Horus' was, then yeah there's no reason he couldn't.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Okay, thank you

 

[Overlord775]

if i don't use warp related magic, can i harm kharn with magic or would the verse equalazetion make so that all magic comes from the warp if not specified ?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I assume it would still be negated. It was stated that the negation comes from the Warp, but is not limited to things from it.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Would Khorne negate magically empowered attacks?

Not stuff like "I touch you and you die". More akin the lines of "using magic to strengthen my muscles" or "making my sword be clad in fire".

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Probably not.