Kefla vs Toppo

[AKM sama]

I don't remember any statement about Jiren's (vs SSB) power being greater than every fighter until then.

I do remember that his power > his previous fights but that would reference to his fight with 1st UIO Goku, not 2nd.

 

[Golden_Void]

When Goku almost knocked Jiren off, and Belmod says he hasn't seen Jiren like that for a long time. The scene before Goku uses kaioken for the first time against Jiren since their first fight, and Vegeta getting his new form.

 

[AKM sama]

I guess I'll have to rewatch it. If you have the link, then please link me.

You sure Belmod directly compared his power with every other fighter up until that point (including Kefla)? Or was it just a comparison with Jiren's own power used previously against UIO1?

EDIT: I just checked. The statement was about how Jiren is using greater power than he did against UIO1. It was not about Jiren using more power than ssj2 Kefla.

 

[Golden_Void]

"I haven't seen Jiren like this in a long time" = Jiren stronger than anything in the tournament so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq0d4GExNOs

 

[AKM sama]

I just edited my previous comment too lol.

Anyway, The statement was about how Jiren is using greater power than he did in the entirety of ToP. It was not about Jiren using more power than ssj2 Kefla or anyone else. It is a comparison of Jiren with a suppressed Jiren, not a comparison of Jiren with ssj2 Kefla or anyone else.

 

[JackJoyce]

I guess I'll have to rewatch it. If you have the link, then please link me.
You sure Belmod directly compared his power with every other fighter up until that point (including Kefla)? Or was it just a comparison with Jiren's own power used previously against UIO1?

Kefla haven't been compared to any God tier in the first place. Here is the thing UI Omen Goku fought a Casual Jiren. SSJ1 Kefla was comparable to SSB KKx20 Goku who was no match for Casual Jiren.

In the second fight Goku & SSBE Vegeta was an even match for Semi-Serious Jiren. Given Jiren was at least 10 times stronger than Goku was during their first fight. Both Goku & SSBE Vegeta has 2-5 times higher AP than full power Kefla

 

[AKM sama]

Eh

That not how

K. UIO2 is stronger than UIO1. UIO1 fought against a suppressed Jiren.

Ssj2 Kefla could one-shot the likes of UIO2.

Ssj2 Kefla >= UIO2 >> UIO1

Assuming SSBKKx20 Goku just after UIO2 became even stronger than UIO2 doesn't make any sense. And there is no evidence of that afaik.

Now both SSBKKx20 Goku and SSBE Vegeta are stronger than UIO1 and fought against a Jiren who was stronger than the Jiren who fought UIO1. But it does not make them stronger than UIO2.

 

[TheRustyOne]

If SSJ2 Kefla had power that was even near Jiren's then he would have woken up. Jiren woke up to Goku's power which far surpassed Kefla.

Everyone was taken back by Kefla taking one hit from UIO Goku, but Whis explained that why his attacks were not working.

This implies that UIO Goku had more power then SSJ2 Kefla but couldn't use it. Even then Jiren didn't wake up till Goku powered up some more.

 

[AKM sama]

SSJ2 Kefla did not have power enough to contend with full powered Jiren, nobody said otherwise. Jiren only woke up to observe Goku's fight, as shown and later stated by Toppo. Kefla powered up even more after that.

UIO2 did not far surpass Kefla. It was blatantly stated that Kefla's FP attack could have one shotted him. UIO2 had to use a charged up KHH to overpower ssj2 Kefla.

 

[JackJoyce]

SSJ2 Kefla did not have power enough to contend with full powered Jiren, nobody said otherwise. Jiren only woke up to observe Goku's fight, as shown and later stated by Toppo. Kefla powered up even more after that.

UIO2 did not far surpass Kefla. It was blatantly stated that Kefla's FP attack could have one shotted him. UIO2 had to use a charged up KHH to overpower ssj2 Kefla.

That's because UIO2 was running out of stamina. Also he couldn't use the attacking part properly. Hence I don't think there's much difference between 1st & 2nd UIO

SSJ2 Kefla is SSB KKx40 level at best (before 2nd fight with Jiren)

 

[AKM sama]

Except it was blatantly stated that UIO2 > UIO1.

And it was also stated that ssj2 Kefla's final attack could have one shotted UIO2. Durability and strength doesn't have anything to do with low stamina when he was using his maximum power. He couldn't use the attacking part in his fight but was still > UIO1 and had to charge up a KHH to eliminate her. She is not SSBKKx20 level according to her profile and the anime.

It doesn't matter what your personal opinions are tbf.

 

[TheRustyOne]

SSJ Kefla is spirit bomb level and weaker then Limit Break SSBKK Goku.

As Blue Goku worried Champa slightly and it was stated that Goku in KK would have been able to beat SSJ Kefla easily if he wasn't so tired out.

Proof is when SSBKK Blitz her and sended her flying with just one hit.

SSJ2 Kefla is stronger then 1st UIO Goku but weaker then 2nd UIO Goku. Kefla needs her strongest attack to one shot 2nd UIO Goku and it drains stamina at a insane rate.

(Everyone was surprised that Kefla was able to take UIO Goku hits which implies he had more power then her)

2nd UIO Goku was interesting to Jiren but 2nd Limit Break SSB Goku pushed him into using some of his real power and SSBKKX20 could fight on par with that.

SSBE Vegeta is equal to 2nd Limit Break SSBKKX20 Goku which is stronger then 2nd UIO. Vegeta was crushed by Toppo with ease until he was able to surpass his limits again.

 

[AKM sama]

I am not responding to stuff about ssj Kefla as it is not worth discussing for this match.

>" Kefla needs her strongest attack to one shot 2nd UIO Goku and it drains stamina at a insane rate."

And Goku needed his strongest attack and had to charge it up to eliminate ssj2 Kefla.

>"Everyone was surprised that Kefla was able to take UIO Goku hits which implies he had more power then her"

Because nobody expected her to be this strong as UIO was a big thing.

>"2nd UIO Goku was interesting to Jiren but 2nd Limit Break SSB Goku pushed him into using some of his real power and SSBKKX20 could fight on par with that."

UIO2 never fought Jiren so IDK how you are comparing UIO2 and SSBKKx20 with Jiren. And you still haven't proved Jiren against SSBKKx20 was using more power than ssj2 Kefla.

>"SSBKKX20 Goku which is stronger then 2nd UIO. "

Proof?

 

[AKM sama]

Again.

ssj2 Kefla = UIO2 >> UIO1

Jiren against SSBKKx20 > UIO1

Both ssj2 Kefla and Jiren were unquantifiably stronger than UIO1 in their respective fights. Which leads us nowhere. We don't have enough evidence to establish a relation between ssj2 Kefla and Jiren directly.

But assuming SSBKKx20 just after UIO2 became magically even stronger than UIO2 itself, is reaching.

 

[Grimreaperofjustice]

I am not responding to stuff about ssj Kefla as it is not worth discussing for this match.
>" Kefla needs her strongest attack to one shot 2nd UIO Goku and it drains stamina at a insane rate."

And Goku needed his strongest attack and had to charge it up to eliminate ssj2 Kefla.

>"Everyone was surprised that Kefla was able to take UIO Goku hits which implies he had more power then her"

Because nobody expected her to be this strong as UIO was a big thing.

>"2nd UIO Goku was interesting to Jiren but 2nd Limit Break SSB Goku pushed him into using some of his real power and SSBKKX20 could fight on par with that."

UIO2 never fought Jiren so IDK how you are comparing UIO2 and SSBKKx20 with Jiren. And you still haven't proved Jiren against SSBKKx20 was using more power than ssj2 Kefla.

>"SSBKKX20 Goku which is stronger then 2nd UIO. "

Proof?

GOOD POINTS

except two...

Kefla in any circumstance wouldve lost as shown by the potara earings being erased in the attack and Kefla was not fast enough UIO2 definitly surpassed Kefla at the end of that fight and did have the power to beat her

And SSJBKKX20 is = UIO at the greatest of highballs Idk who told you it was stronger unless I read that last thing wrong

and it was shown because of preformance against a Jiren wayy stronger than UIO1

 

[AKM sama]

Kefla was not fast enough because Goku's reactions were faster due to UIO2. And UIO2 Goku did not surpass Kefla in terms of strength, they were equal. It was a matter of whose hit connects. While none of Kefla's hits connected but Goku's hit connected, Goku won. But they were equal in power.

And I think you misunderstood my point. SSBKKx20 (post UIO2) is definitely stronger than UIO1 because Jiren used more energy. But it is not stronger than UIO2. UIO2 > UIO1.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

That argument pretty much shows what happens if speed is not equalized

 

[Grimreaperofjustice]

Kefla was not fast enough because Goku's reactions were faster due to UIO2. And UIO2 Goku did not surpass Kefla in terms of strength, they were equal. It was a matter of whose hit connects. While none of Kefla's hits connected but Goku's hit connected, Goku won. But they were equal in power.
And I think you misunderstood my point. SSBKKx20 (post UIO2) is definitely stronger than UIO1 because Jiren used more energy. But it is not stronger than UIO2. UIO2 > UIO1.

Yes I see that last one I was not making sence out of but as for my point UIO 2nd trigger would have beaten kefla in any circumstance

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

This thread!


I may need to move the deadline by a week considering how argumentative it has become.

 

[Grimreaperofjustice]

I wasnt argueing Trying to argue XD

 

[Soste_To_Perivalon]

Current tally of votes? Or is it still 11-5.

 

[Golden_Void]

Pretty sure Kefla lost.

 

[Aeyu]

Yep.

 

[Golden_Void]

Unnecessary comment.

 

[ArmBill]

Lol