Kamen Rider Joker Vs Seryu: The Warped Meaning Of J/Kill The Sins (9-3-0) GRACE PERIOD IS ON

[TheGreatJedi13]

why are we talking about Joker dealing with stronger enemies
the stats are what's already in his calc. him defeating max doesn't matter
since Koro scales on AP higher in relative to his current AP feats scaling which is half of Double
Also the Metal Dopant feat is on his 7-B key not high 7-C which is used here

 

[Tatsumi504]

Okay so, Kuro is stronger than either Seryu or Shotaro, but by how much? See, Shotaro has fought people far stronger than him before, ranging from Weather, Skull, and Metal. Now why does this matter? Max Joker oneshot Metal. Another thing to note, Shotaro was holding back as to not kill the human controlling Metal. Now, how strong is Metal?

Metal had used the Metal Memory which in section 6 of the Zukan, was 5x stronger than any halves of W, which included Shotaro’s Joker Memory.

Here’s the raw and translation:

メタル側の心肺機能を極限まで高め、制御する器官「コンバーターラング」を内蔵する強化外骨格部位。
基本的な機能は他の５つの半身と同じであるが、メタルメモリによって強化されたこの半身は、他の半身よりもおよそ５倍の強度を持つ。

This is a reinforced exoskeleton part that incorporates the "converter lung," an organ that enhances and controls the cardiopulmonary functions of the metal side to the utmost limit.
The basic functions are the same as those of the other five halves, but this half, reinforced by metal memory, is approximately five times stronger than the other halves.

If it's 5x stronger then that's Low 7-B not High 7-C

So, back to the debate, while Kuro is stronger, unless you show me otherwises, Max Jokers beats him down. And I don’t see eating Shotaro is viable here as Kuro will need enough push force to outmatch Shotaro’s own push force. Kuro having Class M vs Shotaro’s Class T.

A 5x AP difference still isn't enough to destroy Kuro beyond what High-mid regen can cover and like I said, He's been engulfed by explosions stronger than him before and it didn't reach his core. What does lifting strength have to do with eating someone? He can grow to a size big enough to swallow a human whole.

Also you talked about missiles. They’re 5 meters apart. Like, does Seryu always keep a distance away from her opponent’s. I was told that she is a close-mid range fighter who would at times close the distance between her and her opponent.

She has like 10 sets of weapons she can utilize, only after exhausting it's ammo did she enter cqc

 

[BERRIES555]

Nah see, quite literally the only difference between T1 and T2 is stats. The statement that comes from the T1 Metal, not the T2. It’s quite literally the same model, abilities and everything.

Yeah nah, W’s profiles should have a 5x multiplier to finishers and stronger forms. The season is like, the lowest possible priority atm.

See, how strong were those pinch shots? Cause looking at Mine’s profile, it’s depends on the amount of danger she’s in. And it engulfed its body, Shotaro can make people blow up.

The reason why I say LS matters is cause Shotaro could physically pry Kuro’s mouth. If Kuro like, gets a limb, it’ll do some damage. But if Kuro fully eats Shotaro, which you probably should give an example to how (Don’t need a clip btw, just explain it), he could, ya know, dodge.

Could you please explain how she fights when they’re so close (I’ve been asking this like 4 times now : p). Shotaro pretty easily closes the distance. Does she like, actively run away from fights and attack from a range or smth?

 

[Shadowslash125]

why are we talking about Joker dealing with stronger enemies

The reason why is that we're trying to explain Joker's skill level. Besides the obvious three, here are some Dopants he has defeated (albeit as W) that I've seen to have very similar or identical skill sets to Seryu and Koro:

Beast Dopant: Koro but higher regen and tankiness
Quetzalcoatlus Dopant: Probably has the same size as Berserker Koro (but this bastard fecking flies)
And Energy Dopant (who is the only one that Joker has faced in this form): Energy Railgun.
In addition to Zone Dopant (who doesn't have any skillset identical to Seryu and Koro): Double Teaming with Beast Dopant, helps teleport BD to blind spots for sneak attacks and shoots light bullets.

The Shotaro used here is after he has fought the Energy Dopant, which means he has the knowledge to defeat foes with similar abilities to the two (minus nuke).

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

The reason why is that we're trying to explain Joker's skill level. Besides the obvious three, here are some Dopants he has defeated (albeit as W) that I've seen to have very similar or identical skill sets to Seryu and Koro:

im talking more about how he explained how he 1 shot max and how is that even relevant to skill

 

[BERRIES555]

Oh oneshoting Metal is just a Max Joker feat

Edit: I think I read your comment wrong. Just ignore this

 

[Tatsumi504]

See, how strong were those pinch shots? Cause looking at Mine’s profile, it’s depends on the amount of danger she’s in. And it engulfed its body, Shotaro can make people blow up.

Seryu physically is High 7-C (520.99KT), her weapons scale above that and among them, she has one big ass missile that she notes is stronger than the rest. A casual shot from Mine matched Seryu's strongest artillery and Koro can tank several shots from her. Mine only ever dealt significant damage to Koro when in a pinch, using pumpkin's sniping shots but a shot from her big enough to engulf his body still didn't end him.
In the fight, Mine enters a pinch when she separates from tatsumi (it's a 2v1, Seryu and Koro vs Mine). Base Koro could still take multiple shots from Mine, Seryu ordered him to use the trump card cause Mine figured out where his core is, her weapon was basically on assault rifle mode.

The reason why I say LS matters is cause Shotaro could physically pry Kuro’s mouth. If Kuro like, gets a limb, it’ll do some damage. But if Kuro fully eats Shotaro, which you probably should give an example to how (Don’t need a clip btw, just explain it), he could, ya know, dodge.

Koro could just... you know... swallow unless you saying he'll climb his way back to Koro's mouth or exit through his rear end.
What is an example needed for? Just grab him and toss him in his mouth while he's initially surprised. Class T lifting strength doesn't mean he's too heavy to lift and unless he actually tries to instantly break out, Koro can eat him in that brief instance of surprise.

Could you please explain how she fights when they’re so close (I’ve been asking this like 4 times now : p). Shotaro pretty easily closes the distance. Does she like, actively run away from fights and attack from a range or smth?

Gaining distance isn't a problem considering she has an actual human (animal in this case) shield protecting her. Koro also has @ mode called "arms" where he just gains massive buffed hands and goes rapidly swinging, it's not like Seryu's weapons need to be used from hundreds of meters away. Shotaro closes the distance, no problem he gets to eat a salvo of explosives from multiple grenade, rocket launchers, probably tank piercing, explosive rounds as well. There's also some kind of drill she can use for close combat, can still be shot as well as a massive flail (spiked ball on a chain). All of these + Koro in the mix means the punch, kick merchant shouldn't even attempt cqc.

 

[Shadowslash125]

Also when she uses her long-range weaponry, doesn't she use them from far away? When she uses the Justice Volley Fire, she's like very very far from Tatsumi and Mine. In this case, the two should be about a giraffe's height away. Like BERRIES has asked, does she run away to extend the range between them or will she just chuck Koro at Shotaro while she prepares the shots?

im talking more about how he explained how he 1 shot max and how is that even relevant to skill

Oh, Maximum Joker (Or Max Joker to shorten it) is the name for Joker's finishers. We're saying that Joker using his finisher is strong enough to One Shot the Metal Dopant which is 5x stronger than each of W's halfs including this Joker one. Regardless of T2 or T1 gaia memories, the Metal memory is able to bring this benefit. While yes, this feat was performed by T2 Joker against T2 Metal Dopant but it's just the boost from T1 to T2, which all users of the latter memories benefit from. Meaning that if T1 Joker does this feat to T1 Metal Dopant, the result will still be the same. Also if you're worried about this, this Higher AP only applies to his finishers.

The bad news is that he likes to spam it a lot.

 

[Tatsumi504]

Besides the obvious three, here are some Dopants he has defeated (albeit as W) that I've seen to have very similar or identical skill sets to Seryu and Koro:

Gonna need some kind of visual aid ro show it reaches the level of explosive rain Seryu can just dish out

 

[Tatsumi504]

Also when she uses her long-range weaponry, doesn't she use them from far away? When she uses the Justice Volley Fire, she's like very very far from Tatsumi and Mine. In this case, the two should be about a giraffe's height away. Like BERRIES has asked, does she run away to extend the range between them or will she just chuck Koro at Shotaro while she prepares the shots?

She didn't start the fight near them. She spotted them from afar while they were leaving a city and proceed to rain fire on them from afar. Nothing says she can't use it in close range, she can't gain distance to use it

 

[Shadowslash125]

She didn't start the fight near them. She spotted them from afar while they were leaving a city and proceed to rain fire on them from afar. Nothing says she can't use it in close range, she can't gain distance to use it

There's a scene prior to the Justice Volley Fire feat, where Seryu's checking for civilians around the area, then letting loose the moment she finds only Tatsumi and Mine on the radar. Since this location is in the city inhabited by innocent civilians (while the ground floor itself has cleared, there can be people in the buildings around the area that may not be aware or have nowhere else to run to. Would she still use those funny exploding stuff from her arsenal or would she just not care about the collateral damage in this case. Just something I'm wondering about.

 

[Tatsumi504]

There's a scene prior to the Justice Volley Fire feat, where Seryu's checking for civilians around the area, then letting loose the moment she finds only Tatsumi and Mine on the radar. Since this location is in the city inhabited by innocent civilians (while the ground floor itself has cleared, there can be people in the buildings around the area that may not be aware or have nowhere else to run to. Would she still use those funny exploding stuff from her arsenal or would she just not care about the collateral damage in this case. Just something I'm wondering about.

If the ground floor in a 100m radius is clear i don't see why not. Her sense of justice like I've said is distorted. One reason to view those people as evil is all she needs.
Seems 1 was bothering myself for nothing. Her ten weapons of judgment are on her profile. She has 3 that can be used freely in cqc

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Honestly i"m not buying on the Koro swallow Shotaro because the LS difference is still hella big, like sure he got eaten but he can just burst out from that fella like no problem with it
If it's like Class M vs Class G then I can give Koro a benefit here but against Class T? That's twice of disadvantage

 

[Shadowslash125]

The jaws where Koro's supposedly going to swallow Shotaro can lead to his head part, which Mine was easily able to shoot through in their first fight. I don't see how Joker isn't going to like punch through that normally or with a finisher and just be back onto square one.
Another question, will Seryu use the Justice Volley Fire while Koro is fighting Joker?

 

[BERRIES555]

Gonna be real with you chief, I don’t see how that’s beating a Max Joker. Like, the scale chain is there but Max Joker is stronger.

Okay so, imagine this. A dog runs up and bites you, you can physically pry the dogs jaw with your hands. That’s kinda a simplified way of explaining it. Like it Kuro bites down, the newtons of force he pushes down is less than the newtons of force Shotaro can lift/push up. You know what I mean? When I mean an example, I mean like, how Kuro eats people. Cause if it’s just run and chomp, I don’t see why Shotaro would be caught off guard.

I’m sorry but that still doesn’t explain how Seryu fights. She can gain distance with Kuro as. A shield, but does she do that in character? Like, if Seryu starts a fight 5 meters away, what’s likely her first move? That’s what I’m asking. I’m not asking what she’d do if she had range, I’m asking what she’d do if she didn’t. Also, I just wanna say that you explaining the Seryu vs Mine and Tatsumi fight lowkey kinda makes me believe even more that Seryu wouldn’t go for a big missile launcher here .

The explosions will just take out an object’s body and more. One, two and three. But yeah, Rider explosions consistently cover both the person and a blast area

 

[BERRIES555]

The jaws where Koro's supposedly going to swallow Shotaro can lead to his head part, which Mine was easily able to shoot through in their first fight. I don't see how Joker isn't going to like punch through that normally or with a finisher and just be back onto square one.
Another question, will Seryu use the Justice Volley Fire while Koro is fighting Joker?

Genuinely, from what’s being said I don’t think she would. Like it seems that she only did that massive volley of attacks when she is already at a great enough distance

 

[ZeedKZ]

Joker FRA

 

[Shadowslash125]

Counted.