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Kakashi Hatake vs Uryü Ishida

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SoulMolecules
absorbing Reishi, or in this case it'd be Chakra and here's how the Antithesis works.
W5KOJxt
The Antithesis can reverse the cause and effect of any two designated targets. It doesn't have to be Uryu and Jugram. That was just his plan on defeating him, he didn't have a chance to use it a different way since Jugram used The Balance to reverse the damage Uryu did to him with the Antithesis but twice fold.
 
my point is when has he ever used it on an inanimate object (if it even works on inanimate objects).
 
It'll work on any object, "Amongst the two designated targets I can completey reverse anything that has happened.". So yes he'd be able to use it on an object such as a leaf. Granted, he's not gonna open up with it but he'd definitely resort to it. Uryu isn't an idiot.
 
Knightofannihilation666 said:
It'll work on any object, "Amongst the two designated targets I can completey reverse anything that has happened.". So yes he'd be able to use it on an object such as a leaf. Granted, he's not gonna open up with it but he'd definitely resort to it. Uryu isn't an idiot.
Click to expand...
You say that like by targets he means literally anything rather than 2 people. It has not ever been confirmed that he can use it on inanimte objects. I would dare say Kakashi uses genjutsu faster than Uryu does any of those 2 things considering that.

1. Kakashi has actually used genjutsu before.

2. Kakashi is a genius.
 
Knightofannihilation666 said:
It'll work on any object, "Amongst the two designated targets I can completey reverse anything that has happened.". So yes he'd be able to use it on an object such as a leaf. Granted, he's not gonna open up with it but he'd definitely resort to it. Uryu isn't an idiot.
Click to expand...
How do you that 'between two designated targets' refers to any possible object? Could he crush a leaf and then swap its damage over to the entire Earth?

Or what if 'two designated targets' means between two people? Has he ever used it on anything besides people?
 
Damage3245 said:
How do you that 'between two designated targets' refers to any possible object? Could he crush a leaf and then swap its damage over to the entire Earth?

Or what if 'two designated targets' means between two people? Has he ever used it on anything besides people?
Click to expand...
He has not.
 
@Rocker1189

That's not implied in the slightest. There's nothing hinting at that, it's just one example how he decided to use it. Causality Manipulation would work on inanimate objects, it's ridiculously to say otherwise. Unless you think leafs are Acausal.


1: Nice, unless he uses the right from the get go he's getting his Susanoo absorbed and bombarded with Arrows.


2: Doesn't counter anything I said. Uryu is also a genius.


@damage3245


No that's a false equivalence. Don't try to twist my works, plus reversing the damage from a leaf and onto the earth wouldn't do much considering Uryu doesn't have planet range. And as I told Rocker, Targets refers to anything. Not just two people, that's never stated. Unless you wanna argue that Leafs are acasual
 
No what I am arguing is that you are extrapolating his abilities to things that he has neevr shown before. He has used it on people and his targets are people. He has never been shown to use it on an inanimate object whatsoever.

Also I dont know why you have the idea that he needs Susanoo to do genjutsu. Or tgat genjutsu would be slow. In fact Uryu does not absorb things in character either. Kakashi would just snipe his head off with Kamui. No need for genjutsu.
 
Nobody is saying leafs are acausal. But the specifics of how the ability works doesn't just mean Uryu can do anything and everything... Targets can potentially mean people & inanimate objects, or it can mean just people.

And where did Uryu not having planetary range come into this? Who said his Antithesis even had a set range? Is that stated anywhere in the manga?
 
Oh, here we go again...the Antithesis always turns a thread it a crapshoot.

If it's not about what Ishida can target, then it's about how the reversal works...
 
@Rocker1189


He's never shown it because in all of Bleach he's only used The Antithesis once. And when it did he used to directly on Jugram. The way how he explains The Antithesis implied that he can indeed use them on inanimate objects. Matter of fact he literally even said him using it on Jugram was just an example. Here we go with the headcanon.


Did you hear me say that Kakashi needs a Susanoo to use Genjutsu? No I didn't. So don't go ahead and assume shit like that. Absorbing it would just allow him to take the Susanoo away. How you gathered me saying it ties into Genjutsu beats him. And Uryu literally used it against Mayuri so it's in character for him to do so. It wouldn't Absorb Kakashi himself but it'd just get rid of the Susanoo. Good luck doing that whenever Uryu can actually dodge it via speed enhancement.
 
In fact if he could he would have just used his Antitheses on the misfortune shield and himself so that it broke.

I am using head canon despite saying he has never shown it to work on inanimate objects lmao. I think you need to revise your definition of headcanon because that is exactly what you are doing.

Also the only time that Kamui was slow was when Kakshi was doing it for the first time (and even then it was fast, the anime made it look slow). Kamui has always been a one panel thing.
 
TheC2 said:
Oh, here we go again...the Antithesis always turns a thread it a crapshoot.

If it's not about what Ishida can target, then it's about how the reversal works...
Click to expand...


ACTUALLY THANK YOU.
 
Rocker1189 said:
In fact if he could he would have just used his Antitheses on the misfortune shield and himself so that it broke.

I am using head canon despite saying he has never shown it to work on inanimate objects lmao. I think you need to revise your definition of headcanon because that is exactly what you are doing.

Also the only time that Kamui was slow was when Kakshi was doing it for the first time (and even then it was fast the anime made it look slow). Kamui has always been a one panel thing.
Click to expand...

I'm not using headcanon. I'm using simple logic, the Antithesis is the ability to reverse anything that has happened between any two targets. So I see you'll just ignore things and insert your own headcanon like with Lille huh?


No, he couldn't. Uryu was incapacitated by Jugram at that point.

Aim dodging, Kamui isn't a special thing in the Bleach verse. And can I actually see scans of him using it on the head in character?
 
Knightofannihilation666 said:
TheC2 said:
Oh, here we go again...the Antithesis always turns a thread it a crapshoot.

If it's not about what Ishida can target, then it's about how the reversal works...
Click to expand...
ACTUALLY THANK YOU.
Click to expand...
I dont see what he said to thank him for. He just says it turns threads into a mess which it would not have if you did not say it works on inanimate objects lol.
 
The last two major threads I saw the Antithesis in, were Naruto vs Bleach. They both went downhill due to the constant going back and forth between the sides on what the Antithesis does and it's limitations.

This is a just turning into a repeat of them.
 
TheC2 said:
The last two major threads I saw the Antithesis in, were Naruto vs Bleach. They both went downhill due to the constant going back and forth between the sides on what the Antithesis does and it's limitations.
This is a just turning into a repeat of them.
Click to expand...
which is why it is easier to just go with what has been shown rather than extrapolating abilities based on vague statements and only one fight. But whatever neither side would convince the other.
 
You all know that if Ishida is smart enough he could just shoot himself with an arrow in the heart then use the Anti-Thesis on Kakashi and be done with it, no?

I've actually seen a really good theory that Ishida did exactly that against Yhwach with the Plot Arrow (because you can see something that looks like puddles of blood around Ishida after the arrow hits Yhwach).
 
Ovy7 said:
You all know that if Ishida is smart enough he could just shoot himself with an arrow in the heart then use the Anti-Thesis on Kakashi and be done with it, no?

I've actually seen a really good theory that Ishida did exactly that against Yhwach with the Plot Arrow (because you can see something that looks like puddles of blood around Ishida after the arrow hits Yhwach).
Click to expand...
he did do this
 
He only did that because it was the only way for them to win surprise surprise Kakashi is not Yhwach.
 
That doesn't mean it won't do it, especially if Kakashi is in his Susanoo and out of Ishida's reach (cause I'm not sure if the Quincy Arrows can penetrate the Susanoo). Self-harm and then reversing the damage is a logical, and easy, move. Ishida was smart enough to shoot himself with the arrow and use AT on Yhwach, and he's more definitely smart enough to do something similar here too.
 
Got money on Kakashi. Kakashi is to smart. He doesnt start a battle off with a unkown enemy face to face most of the time. He would send out some lightnint clones and shadow clones to gather info on the enemy and his skills. Once one of the clones damge Ishida and gets the damage switced on to them he will realize the power of Ishida. That would make Kakashi planning even better and Ishida still wouldnt know the difference between the clones. This would give Kakashi the chance to one shot him from either afar with Kamui shruikens or could just appear out of no where using hiding underground jutsu or teleport and BFR him or he could actually get one of his clones to Kamui him and call it a day. Kakashi actually has more options tho with the fact that he can attack and phase at the same time proven by Obito when he stole Madara's chakra and tried to punch him but his hand with right through Obito's face but obito was still touching him. Obito atm had six paths chakra and so those this Kakashi who has that obito's eyes. Lets not forget genjutsu. Kamui using shadow clones and lightnign clones makes things so much harder for Ishida to overcome the numbers when he cant touch them and wont know the difference between them.
 
Kakashi wouldn't even know the mechanics behind the Antithesis. Causality Manipulation is not a hax in Naruto that Kakashi has even come across. And I could say the same thing about Uryu, he doesn't start a battle without knowing the enemies abilities. Plus, Uryu can just absorb said clones with ease. They'd be made of Chakra or Reishi in this case. So they're essentially a non factor. And with Genjutsu I doubt Kakashi would use it before Uryu uses the Antithesis to actually kill Kakashi. He was able to get the upper hand on Yhwach with The Almighty activated so Kakashi isn't gonna be any different.
 
Your whole comment implies Uryu is just gonna stand there and let this all happen. Not to mention the fact that you honestly believe Kakashi would spam lightning and shadow clones. He rarely uses those and he doesn't have the Chakra reserves to even spam those, especially at his 6-B key where he doesn't have much time. And if we're gonna act like the characters are acting out of character, then Uryu easily wins with Skalveri, it would tear apart Kakashi's Susano'o even.

With Uryu's Reishi/Reiatsu sensitivity he should be able to discern the clones and he wouldn't be a fool to lose sight of the real Kakashi. With Kakashi's innate durability, Uryu's Heilig Pfeil should be more than enough to handle those, he wouldn't allow the clones to close in to even need the Anti-Thesis. Plus they don't even deal damage to hurt Uryu, Uryu is physically above Kakashi's physicals.

Besides that, I must vote for Uryu. The only chance Kakashi has is with Perfect Susano'o and spamming Kamui Shurikens hoping it lands on Uryu. But even then, Kakashi still has a chance of losing due to Anti-Thesis being able to bypass Susano'o and damage Kakashi himself and through Kakashi's intangibility. It's highly possible Kakashi dies before even using Susano'o. Uryu could always cheese and do what he did with Yhwach by shooting himself and then switching the damage to his opponent.
 
Imma stay away from bleach Vs threads for a while. It seems like not even the fans can agree on the abilities of the characters, and what they actually do. Mostly because the descriptions for abilities are so vague and inconsistent that they basically end up confusing the entire fanbase.
 
Kakashi has spammed lightning clones and chidori and shadow clones in the War and also Kurama unlocked his potential so yeah Kakashi does have the chakra to do that. Proven when he was finally able to use kamui to to teleport. Clones dont deal real damage?? Yeah your right they can just ignore durability and bfr him or his head or place him in a genjutsu. Same clones who can use kamui on their body. Also saying kakashi would let Ishida shoot himself doesnt make any sense lol. If kakashi sees Ishida try to shoot himself he gonna warp the arrow away which he has done before. You know why he would have that type of think and experience? Cause he has faced someone with the same ability before. Hidan has did the same thing before to kakashi. Kakashi has enough experience to know if someone is gonna try to stab or shoot themselves in battle its not gonna be what you think it is. YOu guys need to go and watch all of Naruto over again. Kakashi is litarally a genius in combat and anything else.
 
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