Kain (legacy of kain) profile upgrade, update etc

[VoidReaper]

Here are some feats and sources (and some calculations) that should make it more prudent to revise Kain to at least High 6A to possibly 5C as well as some feats that are probably generally only observed in Tier 3 and above beings.

Attack potency - High 6A - as evidenced by the fact he can with just the torque of his wrist hold Raziel who is this strong (Class G+) as a lowball. His strength and force output I calculated here

Speed - FTL+ - covered by this calculation that suggests with little effort he can reach up to 16 C through sheer force, likely higher with telekinesis and not in a vaccume. At least a high percentage of C under the laws of physics (cannot break the light barrier). That calc deals with a single impact, not acceleration over time which would mean if he could continue moving at that rate he would likely increase his speed, even more with telekiensis.

Lifting strength - G-T - can restrain Raziel with the torque in his wrist without effort.

Striking strength - High 6A to 5C - As evidenced in this calc Kain should be able to create craters of perhaps extinction levels in size with ease, with effort this may scale to being a threat to some moons. Kain uses the indestructable soul reaver, a sharp edge on a sword may be as thin as 0.0000001 square meters in width or less, meaning Kain with 350 GN+ of force would output 3.5 Exapascals of pressure. Likely enough to cut through anything with its soul devouring edge.

Durability - Tanks strikes from a bloodlusted Raziel, the same guy who can output up to 4 GN without effort per strike of his arms, which equates to 4 Petapascals of pressure. This did not even scratch Kains skin, let alone break the top layer, defeat the regen, damage the muscle, then the bone etc.....you get the picture. kain shoudl be nigh invulnerable to those of his tier to physical means.

Possibly a tier 3+ feat - Kain percieves and mentally sorts an "infinite" timeline or multiverse of infinite possible timelines. He does this in a finite time frame. Giving his mind and mental cognitive abilities an "immeasurable level", this was confirmed and explained by Daniel Cabuco also, a developer of the series. So his reactions are beyond measuring, or rather, he can mentally make decisions on that leve, so its greater than mere reaction.

note, his telekinesis is canonically activated via his whim alone, he can cause physical effect with no more than a whim, those effects range from drainig blood (liquid to perhaps molecular control) and ouputting enough force to shatter large rock formations. Combine that with the above facts on his mind (infinite cognitive+can cause physical change on a whim)...scary stuff.

Scale from the Elder god- The Elder God is a continental+ to planetary being that Kain deals with, the arrogant being who exists across time and across multiple dimensions even admits it cannot kill Kain.

immortality upgrade - It has been confirmed Kain can only be killed by the soul reaver impaling his heart, his immortality was shown when he had his heart (the object of his revival) torn from him and being launched into another dimension. Daniel Cabuco the developer of the game outlined this fact.

Some little known facts

These are not listed on the profile and I will show evidence for them later. kain has no sold in Blood omen regional-conteintal levels of reality warping passively. He is also invisible to time, he cannot be forseen even by beings who exist across multiple timelines unilaterally like the Elder god so those with precog or who can travel and manipulate time may not be able to percieve or sense him outside of the time he percives them.

Further notes Kains hax list is vast, I noted that a lot of tiering lists up to Tier 6 say the character may be entered into that tier on the virtue of being able to easily harm characters of that tier, well with his strength and the ability to devour souls on a hit from his sword alongside his many other hax (soul, mind, TK etc that can work inside bodies) I think his abilities to bypass durability and his physical prowess both at the very least should allow him to kill/harm up to 6A characters if not beyond.

 

[Antoniofer]

I "organinzed" the Kain and Raziel profiles long ago and made the others, and yes I barely remember a little about LoK series at that time, so they have some mistakes.

I'll admit that the profiles aren't the most accurate: I should put the lightspeed from the page from this wiki; similar way with Berserk speed, it doesn't state anything, it just say it allow Sebastion to run at hyperspeed, that is pretty ambiguous; and the Town level feat just comes from The Elder God destroying the Underworld (Underground of the Cementery), but I'm pretty sure than that doesn't yield something like that.

 

[VoidReaper]

Well there are a lot of things, for example Kain is stronger physically and more durable than stated. On the other hand, as you said the whole "faster than light" thing is never stated in the games if I recall. Its teleportation, not true movement so I guess it depends on whether or not you would say someone teleporting is moving fast as light or faster. Personally I would make a point of saying the two are different (movement and teleport) but I do not know how the wiki makes sense of them.


I can list some spells if you like to update the page, all the spells and some of his other powers. I have spoken to a developer of the series who also shares some insights.


Bear in mind, the Elder God exists throughout Nosgoth, I think hes been referred to as bigger than a continent at the very least so hes likely pretty damn strong. That and he bores/burrows through the world.


I can post a few things, calculations and other such bits and bobs in here if your interested, or if there is somewhere else I can post it I will do so if you would like? Would be cool to update it.

 

[Antoniofer]

Guess we can change the SoL to teleportation, the wiki doesn't quote anything and the power is same based as Azimuth's, that creates portals.

The profiles hasn't the spells from Blood Omen, so yeah, that should be added, but after some discussions.

Guess you're right, ED exist from the Cementery to the Lake of Tears, and also cover the Lake of the Deads (but that is in Soul Reaver Era). But, AP of someone as big as the continent? not sure right now, it shouldn't scale any body neither.

Calculations could works too, if there's no touble for you to post them. But they should be evaluated first.

 

[VoidReaper]

Ok this is going to be some information I have pooled, its going to be quite a lot so hold onto your seats!

Kains spells


Energy bolt


"The energy bolt employs magical force in its rawest form. A messy spell, but a potent one nonetheless."


This is a pretty basic spell, just a bolt of pure energy. Kain can kill enemies with it and even knock out switches from range, probably little to useless unless the energy bolts can be gauged as powerful.


Repel


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_ZOZsw1OeY


"Invoking this spell cloaks me under a protective aegis. Whatever spell is cast at me will be reflected back at the caster, leaving me unharmed. It will only last for a short time, however, before leaving me vulnerable once more."


Repel is one of the most powerful spells in the game of Blood omen purely because while up it made Kain indestructable and spells would be reflected back.


Inspire Hate


"This spell allows me to exploit the petty prejudices of man. Minor grievance would escalate to murderous rage and oh, the sweet terror when the spell wore off and they saw their hands covered with their neighbour's blood."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIHosRpwHEY


This spell is pretty powerful, its not even a direct mind attack but more an influence on someones emotions.


Stu


"The human mind is a fragile thing. One minor shock, properly timed, can render them catatonic and ripe for feeding."


Incapacitate


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6ho27eSOOc


""Through this magic, I can stop my enemies in their tracks. Frozen in time, they can do nothing to hinder their own doom. Sometimes, I draw out their fate, for the added fear sweetens their blood.""

Another evil spell, a time freeze on a single target.


Blood Gout


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlmvTOOuL00


""This spell allows me to use blood from my own body as a weapon. When struck, my enemies' blood would flow from their bodies to fill me with life. 'Tis a risk, yet the rewards are a temptation.""


Another self explanatory ability, he sprays/fires his own blood at an enemy and their blood pours back to him.


Control mind


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5cDzxS6I7Q


"This spell allows me to enslave my enemies, giving me control of their bodies. When I release my grip, their bodies will shrivel and die, as I displace their souls, and replace them with my own."


Mind control of a magical kind,


Blood shower


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97o5Rqt1w10


"Oh, to bathe in the blood of others! This spell is especially useful in the face of multiple combatants. Beware those with tainted blood."


An incredibly messy and nasty spell, basically an instant kill to anyone within about 10 meters+ who cannot survive all their blood pouring forth from their bodies, squeezed dry like raisins


Spirit death


"'Tis a spell worthy of the Necromancer himself. This allows me to dissect a creature's soul from its vessel of flesh. For these poor wretches, only oblivion awaits."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9nEQ9yeeOQ


Kains long range magical soul destroyer/devourer, again instant death unless you can survive your soul being ripped out or are strongly resistant to soul attacks.


Spirit Wrack


"With this spell I can tear a creature's soul from its body, leaving its vacant flesh mine to control!"


This is basically the same as mind control only it does not control your mind, it dominates your soul in a similiar fashion. Basically if Kain faces someone with an incredibly resistant mind, he can just pull this move on them to posesss their bodies instead.


lightning


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuW3VgrRGE8


"With this spell I can call upon the heavens to tear my enemies apart with its explosive power. Oh, how their bodies will rupture as the scything energy rips through them!"


Arguably Kains most destructive spell on multiple targets, this spell could only be called outside but calls massive barrages of energy from the heavens to his enemies, the bolts are so powerful they blasted most foes to atoms in a single strike.


Slow time


"At times, my magic extends into very exotic disciplines such as the manipulation of time. I am able to slow time down, so I can move about quick as a wolf, while all others move as though they were mired in mud."


Summary


Those are the most obvious spells, but Kain within the games lore does some other interesting powers, like how he breathed his own soul into the dead remains of his enemies, creating a number of vampires who are powerful in their own right and between them, conquered humanity in their world, dirving them almost to extinction.


Dark gifts from blood omen 2


Charm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqgj1Zhm6G8&t=3m54s

Mind control without magic.


Immolate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJdftgY1Im8&t=1m18s

Incineration through will. Can blast stone statues apart.


Ill get to some calculations later.

 

[VoidReaper]

Kain processes the infinite time stream in finite time


This is separate to reaction speed as posted below, this is more advanced and is more high speed analysis. And by high speed, I mean infinity fast. Kain literally looks into the Chronoplast, an infinite timeline of possibilities and makes sense of it. He says as much in the SR 2 intro;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRZMxCkBv_4&t=0m38s


"I did not fathom the true power of knowledge, to know the future Raziel, to see its paths and streams tracing out into the infinite, as a man, I could never have contained such forbidden truths "


So Kain confirms that he can actual process literally infinite information. The ifninite paths of time being the information hes faced with, and he actually says he contains/knows the future, truths from processing infinite information. This is further covered by the developer of the series Daniel Cabuco;


"Moebius sees the time stream the same way Kain does: through the Chronoplast. He's the Guardian of the Time Pillar so his ability is separate from the Elder God's.

Before you think,"Well that's not such a great thing then. Not a reall 'power' per se." Think about this: When he looks into the Chronoplast, he sees the various weavings of time, wrapping, unfolding and refolding, and is able to take it in without going mad. Only Kain, as an immortal vampire, had the time to sort out what he sees in the Chronoplast, "


As you can see, Daniel expands on this, saying that you would literally go mad if you were not an immortal vampire or some such and confirms Kain sorts out this infinity that he sees, Daniel goes on to comment further;


"Remember Kain's line "As a man, I could never contain such forbidden truths" at the end of SR1/intro to SR2. Infinite possibility makes your eyes go all cross eyed."


So Kain sorts the infinite time stream in finite time, his mind being fast enough to look through all the possible timelines he needs to decipher a timeline, beats the Elder God and Moebius at the same game even though the EG is omnipresent across time and Moebius is just as good, if not better than he is.


Needless to say being able to mentally process any speed of opponent and everything he can conceive about them coupled with the fact his telekinesis and some of his other powers activate purely on his mental whim and Kain is quite broken based on that alone besides his other powers.


Work now but I will post more later, some calcs etc.

 

[Antoniofer]

Ehm, I thibk that you are misundestanding that part: that should be more a intelligence feat or a mental one by not going mad, than rather a speed one; even if is an speed one would be a massive outlier.

 

[VoidReaper]

A little of everything, intelligence for being able to decipher infinity "against" another who can and another who lives throughout the timeline and win, mental due to having the capacity for it that would cause madness and speed, as with any process of information it takes time to do, someone who can think or react quickly is processing information, Kain here is processing infinite information, likely layers of infinite as time is not necesserily a finite concept and he sees all the possibilities (infinite also) of time that he sorts.


Also there are no other reaction feats for Kain that I know of at least to consider it an outlier. It would be an outlier if he consistently showed lesser reaction feats.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Antonio

"I am eternally present, here and everywhere, now and always."

How the hell is the Elder God Hypersonic? That's as blatant an Omnipresent statement as you can get.

 

[Antoniofer]

ED is still limited to a "physical" form, he is omnipresent is terms of extending his powers (a complicatef way of omnipresence), he also "exist" the normal axis of time; but he still has conventional speed, he can be outran, a his body has been increasing since Nosgoth's Early Age, when he was smaller.

 

[The_Everlasting]

That doesn't make much sense. His statement blatantly indicates he exists everywhere.

Also, time is irrelevant in the Spectral Realm, so he'd probably be Infinite in speed anyway.

 

[Antoniofer]

Time does exist in the Spectral Realm, is just in a different way; Raziel was trapped in there for 5 centuries, similar way with Dumah.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Regardless, I'd much rather research the series myself to verify its power, as the glimpses I've seen seem far above what the pages imply.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, you can start with youtube, the stories are there (if you don't want to play the entire games). Futhermore, there's no much to justify the actual stats, I know that in BO and SR there are 9-A feats, but they needs to be calculated.

 

[VoidReaper]

The Elder God is a multi dimenstional timeless entity, he exists physically at least larger than a contintent and if Nosgoth is the name of the planet he is likely throughout it. He exists throughout time, so in that respect as long as your within his reach at any point in the timeline he could crush you if he willed it.


Also remember the fight with Kain? He seemed to multiply his tentacles on a whim. What if he did that consistently across his entire mass? I think the Elder God is more impressive than most give him credit for. He can project energy, multiply, exist across time and cannot be percieved or interacted with unless your in the underworld or have purified sight.

You seem to need a weapon like the Soul reaver, both physically and spiritual attuned (besides its other effects and magical imbuements of course) to defeat him.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, yeah, that's technically true; although, its size is not comfirmed, he growns from the center of the Pillars and extend to the Lake of the Deads, the Lake of Tears and the Cementery (should post a map later) at the last Age.

Would need to rewatch the fight, he could be able to regen, or just summon more of itself.

 

[VoidReaper]

Welp, yeah, that's technically true; although, its size is not comfirmed, he growns from the center of the Pillars and extend to the Lake of the Deads, the Lake of Tears and the Cementery (should post a map later) at the last Age.
Would need to rewatch the fight, he could be able to regen, or just summon more of itself.

True, I thought he could be regenerating/summoning more of his mass. Both possible I guess.

 

[VoidReaper]

Ok more stuff


Resistance to a lot of magical influences, unwanted transformation, reality warp etc

Dark Eden;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iuMPGfiYws


Some info from the characters on Dark Eden and the Blood omen script;

From Mortanius;

"A triad congregates at the roof of the world, Kain; a plot to twist the land, to shape the world. North is where your vengeance lies. "

Kain observes the handywork of the warping field of Dark eden;

"Seeing a mutated human:

Kain VO The poor wretch was warped beyond recognition. To think that it was once human.

Encountering Dark Eden's strange creatures:

Such strange creatures that had been spawned by this dark magic; things half insect and half mammal - human torsos grafted onto abominations of the flesh. Sick as it was, I could not help but admire its creator's ingenuity. " From the Blood omen 1 script

And finally, Kains actualy feat itself; "Kain VO If it could be said that a land descended into madness, 'twould be an accurate account of Dark Eden. A garden of horrors, seeded with sick perversion of nature's design. I knew that this Dark Eden I had trespassed upon would continue to grow, until all of Nosgoth was consumed.

Seeing the magic shell of Dark Eden:

Kain VO Magic seethed and shifted. I watched the dome of energy as it expanded, absorbing and recreating, consuming life and leaving behind only a twisted parody.

Encountering precipitation that has been warped by Circle magic:

From the heavens, the tears of angels danced around me in a frenzy of fire.


Phasing


Phasing is the term I coin for this following ability;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8on6tcCQtA0&t=2m26s

Kain clearly gets cleaved through the entire chest, it seems if Kain is hit by attacks or weapons that may cause damage to his body that he has not avoided with mist form or otherwise the attack "phases" through him.


Power absorbtion through blood and other powers Kain gets from blood besides healing


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1AIitGoJBM&t=8m22s


Here is some math based on Raziel who Kain toys with/schools effortlessly

Observe the following;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QMNFZGh3pA&t=2m41s

Raziel, Kains physical inferior by far fairly easily seems to lift up to above his shoulder, then push over a massive obelisk. Here are some calculations on the Obelisk;

"Obelisks tip;

The square based pyramid tips height is equal to its lengths which are equal to Raziel's height.

V= 1/3 b2*h V= 1/3 175^2*175 V= 1/3 30,625*175 V= 1/3 5,359,375

V= 1,786,458.33 cm3 Density = 7.874 g/cm3 [granite type density]

1,786,458.33*7.874 = 15.5057 tons

Obelisks frustum body; The base of the obelisk is 2x Raziel's height at 350cm. The height is 4x the base for 1,400cm

Pyramidal frustum volume = h(a1+a2+(a1*a2)) h is height, a1 is area of base square and a2 is area of top square. = (1400cm/3)*(350cm^2+175cm^2+(350cm^2*175cm^2)) = 466.666*(122500+30625+3751562500) = 466.666*(122500+30625+61250) = 466.666*214375 = 100,041,524cm3

100,041,524*7.874 = 868.32 tons

868.32 ton body +15.5057 ton tip = 883.8257 tons.


Raziel moving blocks of brass


Observe;


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmWuViquUWc&t=4m55s

I used this calculator;

http://www.calculatoredge.com/matweight ... l%20wt.htm

The blocks are a few feet or so taller than Raziel. Raz is about 6ft as an eastimate so I rounded off for ease at about 10 ft side length/width.

This means each block weighs around 280 tons. If it were solid. Moving four of them would mean he is shifting 1100 tons or thereabouts.

I then calculated the hexagons. Which would have a side wdith of around 3ft (their not quite half as long as the cubes sides) and length around 5ft tops.

This allowed me to cut out the hexagons, which each weigh around 11 tons.

The final number without rounding would give me around 1077 tons of weight which Raziel pulled around the room no harder than he does the stone blocks. This adds up with the 1k ton Obelisk. Which he flips. He then goes on to "slap" each of those 269 or so ton blocks off so they are separate… But that is not all ladies and gentlemen. If you watch at 5:05, he has to push 3 of them stacked at once…

http://www.easycalculation.com/physics/ ... /force.php

So Raziels effortless slaps using this calcluator allows him to move a 807 ton stack. He slaps it 10 feet in about 800 milliseconds or less. So roughly 4 m/s He applies' 2928392 newtons, or 2.9 million with an effortless slap.

Raziels claw scaled

The following math is based on this image and was Pixel scaled in photoshop. Raziels claws are essentially a cylinder followed by a cone so;

743 pixels- 6ft 4

26 pixels (cone length) - 2.6874831763122478 inches

9 pixels (cone radius) - 0.93028263795 inches

32 Pixels (Cylinder length)- 3.307671601615074 inches

6 (cylinder radius) - 0.62019230150471077944237151482197 inches


Area of cyclinder minus faces= 14.062371783960083479134959883467

Area of cone minus face= 0.281184706994875139649492634101

Raziel finger area; 14.343556490954958618784452517568 sqare inches


43.030669472864875856353357552704 square inches is the area for 3 fingers in the iron, brass, granite etc

Multiplied by 490 (hardness of iron), means Raziel requires 13.6 MN (Mega-newtons) of force.


These feats are Raziel not applying effort


The following calculation is going to be an investigation into what "effortless" means for Raziel. The Elder God says Raziels physical prowess allows him to move "massive obstacles" effortlessly, the cut-scene the developers created specially to focus on this obstacle shows us what appears to be a large cube of stone. Now the following calculation is based on him indenting brass blocks that he comes across later in the game with his claws;


This is an advanced calculation from Physics forum to find force required to break into a material, in this case brass;

F = (200 x pi x 136.74^2)/0.204 = 57 mega-newtons

Again thanks to the professors and their peers on the Physics forum for calculating that.

Now we have the force Raziel uses to indent those blocks for moving. We also know he can, and often does move them in other ways so he is well aware it would be significantly easier for him to move it that way, unless..as the Elder God points out moving them requires no effort for him and both are effortless. But how much more force is required to indent brass rather than just moving the blocks? Well, I did this calculation using various calculators online to find the weight of the brass blocks in the game; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmWuViquUWc&t=4m55s

I used this calculator;

http://www.calculatoredge.com/matweight ... l%20wt.htm

The blocks are a few feet or so taller than Raziel. Raz is about 6ft as an eastimate so I rounded off for ease at about 10 ft side length/width.

This means each block weighs around 280 tons. If it were solid. Moving four of them would mean he is shifting 1100 tons or thereabouts.

I then calculated the hexagons. Which would have a side wdith of around 3ft (their not quite half as long as the cubes sides) and length around 5ft tops.

This allowed me to cut out the hexagons, which each weigh around 11 tons. Meaning each block is 269-270 tons.

Now, Raziel moves those blocks about 3 meters a second, I used this calculator to find out that a 269 ton block moving 3 meters in a second requires 732KN of force. This means that Raziel finds it just as easy to apply 78x as much force to indent the brass as he does just pushing it around. Despite it being 78x easier to do which is another order of magnitude he still just plants his hands in it which is astounding for Raziels strength.

Not bad for a guy just using hip movement and individual arms, to output over 57 MN (57589174 Newtons) I wonder what would happen if he put his whole body into something, or struggled/strained with all his might against something hmm...lets investigate some possibilities;

Further investigatio

So 78x is still effortless for Raziel. If we take another 78x to estimate for him applying effort hich would mean he could output up to 4.49 Giganewtons. That is amazing, and well, if he was going all out, as in applying all his muscles, legs and the full force of his efforts we may see a great deal beyond that. For the sake of fun 4.49 GN applied to the tip of his claw tip against kain (1 mm square, probably less) would apply over 4 Petapascals of pressure and still be unable to harm Kains skin. Note here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRZMxCkBv_4&t=2m15s

Kain takes no damage to his skin, not a scratch from that force/pressure. He also;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRZMxCkBv_4&t=1m41s


investigation into Kains strength

So here we see Kain quite easily breaking Raziels hold, he also applies one of his own by grabbing Raziel.

The amazing part is we can see Raziel, the guy who can without effort apply millions-billions of newtons of force casually moving blocks struggling with his whole body, both arms and his upper torso. And Kain casually holds him with one arm! , Raziel's efforts show him helpless without all his force even being able to waver the torque in Kains wrist! let alone break his hold or move his arm away. Its a lowball atop a lowball so I understand it is not fair on him but if we assume Kains effortless is only the same as Raziels by multiplying Raziels "effort" estimation above (by 78x) Kain would be outputting 350 GN (Giganewtons) in just the torque of his wrist!


In summary

Kain can easily take the spasming struggle of Raziels effort until hes helpless in little more than the torque of his wrist on one hand with ease, and Raziel can effortlessly apply up to giganewtons as a lowball without much effort then Kain applying a little effort would output phenominal force;


What If Kain jumped with effort? Spoiler I thought it would be fun to do a calculation to find how the result of Kain putting effort into jumping off from the ground. Using the force in newtons from the "Kains strength" section on the first page (18.78 GN) I can find using this calculator that he would accelerate to nearly 70% of the speed of light (over 200k km/s) and as he takes his journey into space the force on the environment I found using this calculator whose result suggested Kain would create a crater with a diameter greater than 22 km, such as this one;


This may be a lowball (on top of the original lowball for force of Kain) as the calculators seem to consider the object as travelling through the atmosphere with this force and I see nothing on impulse from the sudden force on the terrain of kains legs giving off. Other than that I wonder if Kain would reach any opponent he leaps at 70% of C before the over-pressure, flying landscape pieces and boulders obliterate them. Probably. Now these numbers are the low end mininmums, I could use some help if folks here are good at math. A lot of these calculatiosn are based on work from the Physics forum but their a bunch of professors and scientists (nothing wrong with that) and do not like calcualting fiction so much as discussing real events.


Some shortcomings that I need correctingl

the force for Raziel is based on basic indentation of material which does not take into account volume. For example, according to this caclulation Raziel is only indenting material, when I have found he puts inches (per finger) into the material at the very least and that is cubic, so the order of magnitude for force is going to be extreme. Only, I found out it may be hard to do.

So far we have the strength in the torque of kains wrist/tendons, how can I find out how much more force his whole body could exert? Or even just a punch using this info...how many more muscle reactions, tendons and what have you combine in a punch and indeed, if he actually put his whole body ina strike?

To break down the above calcs in equivalance to a human, so far all I have is the forces a human can apply with effort being no more than what a person can lift with one hand, 7 kg's, again I need to find out how to scale up and find out how much force a human can output with their whole body and straining before I can find out how much force Raziel actually applies.

In any case, regen, immortality and his oher hax and survival abilities aside Kain is more or less indesructable to physical harm. I cannot see most Tier 5-6 characters scratching him without their own magical weapons.

 

[Antoniofer]

Ehm, that seems pretty desorganized; I have the calc of Raziel collapsing the pillar, I obtained like ~275 tons, I can do the ones about the granite blocks later.

 

[VoidReaper]

Sorry was not inentional. I sort of cut and paste some of this from notepad. As you can imagine it does not always copy well although I tried to clean it up into sections rather than one blob it did not go together perfectly.

 

[Antoniofer]

I posted the calc about the pillar collapse, I'll the others when I get back to home later.

 

[VoidReaper]

Bump, sorted out the opening post and updated it with some calcs as well as clarified it a little in conjunction with the tiers on the site. Kain should stand strongly in High Tier 6 at the very least looking at the characters there whcih I know of from my personal knowledge (Kratos, Dante, Ganondorf etc) and probably higher from known feats.

 

[Antoniofer]

Can't claim that he is High Tier 6 without feats, and I known there's any. I placed ED unknown durability via shear size since I don't known how big it is, and still that doesn't scale to no one, Kain only fought a fraction of its size (individual tentacles).

 

[VoidReaper]

I listed them, most of them scale from Raziel who has at least 6A striking power unlike Kain who also has the durability from tanking iit from him.

True about the Elder God but I saw all sort sof scales on the wiki based on someone just fighting another regardless of the rationale of how their fight took place so it looked like just fighting somenoe was enough but then again flawed profiles does not mean this one should be I suppose. Surely the Elder God gains durability for being at least continent level which we have reason to belive from not only the fact we see him across the continents but also within deep below and Daniel Cabuco saying its more pervasive than a continent as well.


6A should be easy for Kain, the tier for 6A says; "who can easily harm characters with continent level durability." , looking through the Tier 6 list he could likely kill most physically, espcially with his sword and those without hax resistance to soul devouring.

 

[Antoniofer]

Defeating a small fraction of a country/continent sized monster isn't country/continent level, futhermore, Kain only cutted some tentacles, then the Citadel collapsed (part of it) and ED stay underground. Nothing of those things imply continent level for Kain nor Raziel.

 

[VoidReaper]

He did not just cut tentacles, he cut at the primary flesh of the Elder God in the central eye which caused it great pain. Considering the Elder God can burrow through the world and can stand having the planets mantle on his body for eons throughout time at once due to his unique excistence in time I would say at least as far as the sites scaling goes and how I have seen it used Kain should scale from that every bit as Kratos scaling from the Titans or Zeus, or Dante from Mundus etc.

Fictions I know well alongside LoK that have been scaled to enemies they have not often felt "6A" levels of power from and may not have even been hit by in some cases.


Course, I am not just talking about scaling from the Elder God, that was just a side point. As I edited into the OP their force output as scaled from Raziel boring brass and iron in Soul reaver without effort is vast, beyond a lot of 6A's I mentioned above.


Is there no one else who has knowledge of Legacy of Kain and favors an upgrade? It seems like its just us discussing this, not a well known or popular series here huh?