Kai (Ninjago) VS Kamen Rider Stronger: Who's Stronger??? (0-8-0) GRACE ENDED

[Shadowslash125]

Local Bugman throws hands at a brick toy man dressed up as a ninja because he spins a lot. And to see which of the two is stronger (B-But Kai is fighting against Stronger, so who would be stronger!?!??!). Nothing much else to say other than that.​

Keys and Versions used:​

Staff Of Elements Kai (4-C) & MoS Kamen Rider Stronger (4-C).

Location:​

In Andy's Bedroom (Yes, the combatants will be shrunk to the size of Woody). Starting Distance is 30 meters.

Battle Conditions:​

• Both characters are in character but willing to win
• Stronger's Charge Up is restricted
• Win Condition is by killing or incapacitation
• Speed is equalized
• None of them will have prior knowledge of each other
• Standard Equipment Only
• Everything else unmentioned will be according to SBA

Votings:​

Combatants​	Votings​
Spinning Ninja
Big-Eyed Bugman	@Shadyboi0, @GrayCraft_Dragon, @EddisherSound, @TsukasayaEmmaDCD, @BERRIES555, @Kamenriderblaze, @ZeedKZ, @Shadowslash125
Andy comes in and everyone freezes

 

[GrayCraft_Dragon]

Aight aight let see how this goes

 

[Lloydblitzed]

How does Bugman react to him getting resistance negged by Kai's Lightning

 

[Shadowslash125]

How does Bugman react to him getting resistance negged by Kai's Lightning

How does that work exactly?

 

[ZeedKZ]

How does Bugman react to him getting resistance negged by Kai's Lightning

You'd need to quantify each of the abilities that his Resistance Negation covers first.

 

[ZeedKZ]

How far is Kai into 4-C? From what I see, he's either at or above baseline, Stronger upscales 256.57 Quettatons, and can go up to 513.15 Quettatons by simply rubbing his hands, and his electricity manipulation/absorption just keeps raising his power and speed exponentially. His resistance negation should only be useful if it was shown to negate resistance at least to the same degree Stronger resists, plus his electricity cannot be absorbed/negated by beings weaker than him. High regeneration, atomic destruction and 5-D power null also kinda rocks here. Leaning Stronger for now.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

How far is Kai into 4-C? From what I see, he's either at or above baseline, Stronger upscales 256.57 Quettatons, and can go up to 513.15 Quettatons by simply rubbing his hands, and his electricity manipulation/absorption just keeps raising his power and speed exponentially.

Kai is gonna be upgraded to 120% x 4-C soon

 

[Lloydblitzed]

How does that work exactly?

By shooting a lightning blast. He negates Fire, Earth and Ice resistances too

and his electricity manipulation/absorption just keeps raising his power and speed exponentially.

Kai has 2 blitz lvls speed amps but let's not talk about it

His resistance negation should only be useful if it was shown to negate resistance at least to the same degree Stronger resists,

he negates Invulnerability to Lightning, so I think it should be enough

plus his electricity cannot be absorbed/negated by beings weaker than him. High regeneration, atomic destruction and 5-D power null also kinda rocks here. Leaning Stronger for now.

Knowing Kai is naturally bloodlusted in that form, he'll start with any offensive elements and could nullify his attacks using Metal or phase them off with Smoke.

 

[ZeedKZ]

he negates Invulnerability to Lightning, so I think it should be enough

Quantify how powerful the Lightning he negated is, otherwise it won't be helpful.

Knowing Kai is naturally bloodlusted in that form, he'll start with any offensive elements and could nullify his attacks using Metal or phase them off with Smoke.

He needs to be physically stronger than Stronger to nullify his Electricity (which is the source of everything he does after all), plus Stronger naturally starts with his best moves. Also, as Kai is naturally bloodlusted, it means his attack pattern was shown on-screen, that would be helpful here.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Quantify how powerful the Lightning he negated is, otherwise it won't be helpful.

I already said earlier he was 120% x 4-C (And has dura neg with it pretty sure)

He needs to be physically stronger than Stronger to nullify his Electricity (which is the source of everything he does after all), plus Stronger naturally starts with his best moves. Also, as Kai is naturally bloodlusted, it means his attack pattern was shown on-screen, that would be helpful here.

Huh no, he attack randomly and according to the situation (not really predictable at all)

 

[ZeedKZ]

I already said earlier he was 120% x 4-C (And has dura neg with it pretty sure)

120% 4-C is 163.2792 Quettatons, that's still weaker than Stronger. And which type of dura neg?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

And which type of dura neg?

Throught Lightning

 

[ZeedKZ]

Stronger is immune to his own Electricity (and everything that comes with), which includes durability negation.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

He also have a huge LS advantage, Poison and Mind Dura Neg to solve the dura problem

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Stronger is immune to his own Electricity (and everything that comes with), which includes durability negation.

That won't be a problem if Kai bypass that Immunity regardless

 

[ZeedKZ]

He also have a huge LS advantage, Poison and Mind Dura Neg to solve the dura problem

What is the value of his Class T? Plus Stronger won't even wrestle with Kai, he'd just use electricity to deal with him. Stronger is resistant to both poison and mind manipulation as well.

That won't be a problem if Kai bypass that Immunity regardless

Stronger cannot have his electricity bypassed by someone weaker than him.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

What is the value of his Class T?

Baseline. Won't matter cuz he's Class G only

Plus Stronger won't even wrestle with Kai, he'd just use electricity to deal with him.

Kai is a skilled Ninja. He's dodging that

Stronger cannot have his electricity bypassed by someone weaker than him.

He can litterally resist neg his immunity to dura neg, I don't why scaling to higher stats would resolve the issue considering Jay Dura neg affected a guy with 5D Dura

 

[ZeedKZ]

Baseline. Won't matter cuz he's Class G only

From what I saw, their difference is 13x, fair enough, tho Stronger mostly relies in ranged attacks.

Kai is a skilled Ninja. He's dodging that

Is this an genuine argument?

He can litterally resist neg his immunity to dura neg, I don't why scaling to higher stats would resolve the issue considering Jay Dura neg affected a guy with 5D Dura

No, he can't...? You've been saying "yada yada he resists negs", but you did not answer my questions regarding the potency of his resistance negation. Kai is still physically weaker than Stronger, he ain't negating his electricity.

Then show the instance where Jay dura negged "a guy with 5D Dura". which is funny considering you proposed Kai for the top strongest non-smurf characters lmao

 

[ZeedKZ]

Kikkaijin Denkiei was explicitely made to absorb, resist and nullify Stronger's electricity. Which then, Stronger shrugged off later in the episode.

秘密結社「ブラックサタン」が生み出した、電気エイ（シビレエイ）の特性を備える改造人間。
電気を吸収、放出する能力を備えているため、仮面ライダーストロンガーの攻撃を無効化しつつ、己のパワーに変えることが可能。また、右腕の触手は電磁鞭となっている。

A modified human with the characteristics of an electric ray (shibire-ei) created by the secret society “Black Satan.
He has the ability to absorb and emit electricity, which enables him to nullify Kamen Rider Stronger's attacks while converting them into his own power. The tentacles on his right arm are electromagnetic whips.

奇械人電気エイ | 仮面ライダー図鑑 | 東映

仮面ライダーシリーズに登場した仮面ライダー、変身フォーム、怪人、登場人物、アイテムを詳しく解説・紹介しています。

www.kamen-rider-official.com

 

[Lloydblitzed]

From what I saw, their difference is 13x, fair enough, tho Stronger mostly relies in ranged attacks.

Most of Kai wincoins can also be used at a range

No, he can't...? You've been saying "yada yada he resists negs", but you did not answer my questions regarding the potency of his resistance negation.

I already answered this

Kai is still physically weaker than Stronger, he ain't negating his electricity.

That's not how Dura Negation works, what? His Dura being physically higher doesn't mean anything

Then show the instance where Jay dura negged "a guy with 5D Dura". which is funny considering you proposed Kai for the top strongest non-smurf characters lmao

The guy isn't 5D in dimensionality, he's Low Complex in dura is what I meant

 

[ZeedKZ]

Most of Kai wincoins can also be used at a range

Too bad he won't be damaging Stronger here.

I already answered this

You didn't. You've presented absolutely anything that quantifies the potency of the electricity he can negated, not in form of words nor evidence.

That's not how Dura Negation works, what? His Dura being physically higher doesn't mean anything

We are talking about Resistance Negation, Kai cannot nullify/absorb Stronger's electricity because he is physically weaker than him. Read his profile, he is resistant to any electricity absorption that comes from foes weaker than him.

The guy isn't 5D in dimensionality, he's Low Complex in dura is what I meant

Which is still higher-dimensional durability. But an actual evidence (something I haven't seen so far) would be great! Although your wording is extremely vague.

 

[AigerTheKing]

Too bad he won't be damaging Stronger here.

What stops Kai from freezing him at a range?

You didn't. You've presented absolutely anything that quantifies the potency of the electricity he can negated, not in form of words nor evidence.

That's why we read profiles before commenting

Lightning Forcefield, Electricity Manipulation, Durability Negation, Resistance Negation against Invulnerability to Electricity Manipulation and Hacking (Stolen from Jay)

We are talking about Resistance Negation, Kai cannot nullify/absorb Stronger's electricity because he is physically weaker than him. Read his profile, he is resistant to any electricity absorption that comes from foes weaker than him.

What does it have to do with resisting Resistance Negation which is basically combined with every single of his Lightning capablities?

Which is still higher-dimensional durability. But an actual evidence (something I haven't seen so far) would be great! Although your wording is extremely vague.

How are Low Complex characters automatically higher dimensional?

 

[AigerTheKing]

Baseline. Won't matter cuz he's Class G only

Will be hard to pull off at close range but Kai has Gravity Manip to do it at a range anyways

 

[ZeedKZ]

What stops Kai from freezing him at a range?

How cold the freezing is? Does he uses it in-character

That's why we read profiles before commenting

Thanks for further supporting my point. I'm talking about Quantifying, the powers are on his profile, but the profile is so high-quality that we have no clue of the extent of these abilities. Things like temperature, voltage, etc. are extremely important in such cases.

What does it have to do with resisting Resistance Negation which is basically combined with every single of his Lightning capablities?

Kai is physically weaker than Stronger, therefore, for the reasons above, it cannot be negated. (I hope I won't repeat this again).

How are Low Complex characters automatically higher dimensional?

I've never said they are higher-dimensional. I've said that anything that is derivated from higher-dimensional statistics even if the character does not have HDE, it is still a smurf attribute.

 

[Shadyboi0]

Voting Stronger for the prior reasons stated above as it seems more convincing.

 

[Scarletjet]

For what I remember Kai when using the Staff of elements is fighting off the curruption effect from the staff, actually I think in character Kai would just drop the Staff and fight with fire cuz he is not trying to save his friends in this fight and he doesn't like the staff's corruption

 

[Scarletjet]

Basically that's all there is to Kai using the staff of elements after this scene he drops the staff and then destroys it.

 

[ZeedKZ]

So sane Kai w/ Staff can use a different set of abilities while insane Kai w/ Staff only uses fire?

 

[AigerTheKing]

How cold the freezing is?

Zane's ice can make Kai and Lloyd undetected by normal thermal camera so -200 degrees

Does he uses it in-character

Watch here

Thanks for further supporting my point. I'm talking about Quantifying, the powers are on his profile, but the profile is so high-quality that we have no clue of the extent of these abilities. Things like temperature, voltage, etc. are extremely important in such cases.

Like Lloyd said, his Dura Neg worked on Colossus, who upscales from Full Power Reborn Garmadon

For what I remember Kai when using the Staff of elements is fighting off the curruption effect from the staff, actually I think in character Kai would just drop the Staff and fight with fire cuz he is not trying to save his friends in this fight and he doesn't like the staff's corruption

Wtf? No he won't, he didn't even do that in character

 

[AigerTheKing]

So sane Kai w/ Staff can use a different set of abilities while insane Kai w/ Staff only uses fire?

SOE Users use any element they have in their arsenal depending on the situation. That's shown with Kai and SOE Chen too

 

[ZeedKZ]

Zane's ice can make Kai and Lloyd undetected by normal thermal camera so -200 degrees

How does that makes it -200°C?

Watch here

Good to know that Kai isn't bloodlusted then.

Like Lloyd said, his Dura Neg worked on Colossus, who upscales from Full Power Reborn Garmadon

But which kind of durability negation? Does that happens onscreen?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

How does that makes it -200°C?

Irc all objects above absolute zero emit thermal infrared energy, so thermal cameras can passively see all object, so Zane would need to pull out a absolute Zero move which according to the Reference for Common Feats page is -273°C

Good to know that Kai isn't bloodlusted then.

HIs eyes becomes red afterwards and he tries to kill the Green Ninja

But which kind of durability negation? Does that happens onscreen?

He shocks him

 

[Lloydblitzed]

So sane Kai w/ Staff can use a different set of abilities while insane Kai w/ Staff only uses fire?

There's no difference between the 2 hax wise. We just know he'll use any EP he has cuz that's what Chen with the same corruptive staff did too

 

[ZeedKZ]

Irc all objects above absolute zero emit thermal infrared energy, so thermal cameras can passively see all object, so Zane would need to pull out a absolute Zero move which according to the Reference for Common Feats page is 273°C

But where does it say that the camera (if it is an actual camera) was unable to detect the thermal energy? Because the video cuts right after he says "My/I'm freezing-". Not every thermal camera can go down to near absolute zero temperature as well, majority of them have a lower-end range of -20°C to -50°C.

His eyes becomes red afterwards and he tries to kill the Green Ninja

Yeah, but the instance used was before he went berserk. Unless we are considering that Kai will only become mad after the first seconds of the match.

He shocks him

He doesn't have resistance to electricity so that's... expected? I don't see him having Low 1-C durability coming to relevance here.

There's no difference between the 2 hax wise. We just know he'll use any EP he has cuz that's what Chen with the same corruptive staff did too

Something I've never implied. I questioned the difference of the starting moves of both of his states, which so far I find the evidence shown to be more convincing.

 

[Scarletjet]

Wtf? No he won't, he didn't even do that in character

He was the one who destroyed the staff himself how is it not in character when it was literally what happened on that episode?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

He was the one who destroyed the staff himself how is it not in character when it was literally what happened on that episode?

That's cuz Cole had to interrupt and knock the staff out of his hand, breaking its control. He won't try fighting back the possession bc this is SBA and "I care about the others" is irrelevant now

But where does it say that the camera (if it is an actual camera) was unable to detect the thermal energy? Because the video cuts right after he says "My/I'm freezing-". Not every thermal camera can go down to near absolute zero temperature as well, majority of them have a lower-end range of -20°C to -50°C.

He lacks the LS to break off the ice anyways so...

Yeah, but the instance used was before he went berserk. Unless we are considering that Kai will only become mad after the first seconds of the match.

He used afterwards too

He doesn't have resistance to electricity so that's... expected? I don't see him having Low 1-C durability coming to relevance here.

He shouldn't be phased by electricity due to the enourmous AP gap between Star lvl Jay and Low 1-C Colossi? Not only that but the "electricity can run throught flesh" argument isn't gonna work bc he's made of stone

Something I've never implied. I questioned the difference of the starting moves of both of his states, which so far I find the evidence shown to be more convincing.

There isn't any

 

[AigerTheKing]

He was the one who destroyed the staff himself how is it not in character when it was literally what happened on that episode?

he did that to give the EMs back their powers. There's 0 reasons to believe why he would do that in a 1v1

 

[ZeedKZ]

He lacks the LS to break off the ice anyways so...

Space Survival already grants Stronger resistance to near-AZ temperatures, as he spent nearly 5 months in there from the Skyrider finale to his reapparence at Super-1 movie, so "not receiving all cold" goes wack here. He also doesn't need Class T to free from the ice unless the ice weighs billions/trillions of tons that Stronger cannot lift.

He used afterwards too

Where?

He shouldn't be phased by electricity due to the enourmous AP gap between Star lvl Jay and Low 1-C Colossi? Not only that but the "electricity can run throught flesh" argument isn't gonna work bc he's made of stone

No...? If he does not have resistance to X ability, then he just won't resist no matter how high his durability is as long he is physical. Plus electricity manipulation by default does negate durability to an extent specially at higher voltages, it directly damages vital organs and may cause heart failure, it causes involuntary muscular contraction and nerve damage. Stronger's electricity is WAY worse than that since it causes you to burst from inside to outside, fucks with your internal organs, disintegrates targets at atomic level, can generate heat enough to melt a lake in seconds, creates thunderstorms, and paralyzes both physical and intangible beings. Rocks can also conduct electricity so I don't know why you even brought that imaginary argument here. Plus Garmadon doesn't even have Type 1 Inorganic Physiology, whatcha point?

There isn't any

The video provided doesn't help you.

 

[AigerTheKing]

Space Survival already grants Stronger resistance to near-AZ temperatures, as he spent nearly 5 months in there from the Skyrider finale to his reapparence at Super-1 movie. He also doesn't need Class T to free from the ice unless the ice weighs billions/trillions of tons that Stronger cannot lift.

That doesn't remotely help Stronger break free from Ice. I don't see the relevance of space survival

Where?

Corrupted Kai litterally using multiple elements, just like his "Non corrupted self" did

No...? If he does not have resistance to X ability, then he just won't resist no matter how high his durability is as long he is physical. Plus electricity manipulation by default does negate durability to an extent specially at higher voltages, it directly damages vital organs and may cause heart failure, it causes involuntary muscular contraction and nerve damage.

Broskie is made of stone...

Plus Garmadon doesn't even have Type 1 Inorganic Physiology, whatcha point?

Garmadon and Colossi aren't the same guy?

 

[ZeedKZ]

That doesn't remotely help Stronger break free from Ice. I don't see the relevance of space survival

Space Survival grants resistance to cold temperatures to near absolute zero. Re-read that post as much as it is needed.

Corrupted Kai litterally using multiple elements, just like his "Non corrupted self" did

Finally! An actual evidence!

Broskie is made of stone...

And yet, he still lacks Type 1 Inorganic Physiology in his profile :v

Garmadon and Colossi aren't the same guy?

So why the fuck Llyod used Colossi as my questioning regarding Garmadon lmao.