Jotaro vs Kenshiro

[D180]

Can we just agree to leave this fight as inconclusive?

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

This fight has a conclusive winner, but people keep using incredulity to reason why Star Platinum does not turn Kenshiro into mist with a single barage of blows.

 

[D180]

A single barrage of blows is not enough to kill Kenshiro. Why the heck is Jotaro's max damage output on his profile MCB+ only then?

You keep insisting that he can do it but you're only making assumptions. The feats are very clear that he can't get anywhere near Town level unless via assumptions.

Besides, we already have 4 people asking for inconclusive, 5 for Kenshiro and 5 for Jotaro. This will only keep going in circles. Best to leave it at inconclusive.

 

[Xolon]

This fight has a conclusive winner, but people keep using incredulity to reason why Star Platinum does not turn Kenshiro into mist with a single barage of blows.

I already brought evidence. A thread where the exact thing you're proposing (billion+ punches in single seconds) was rejected. And it's an OBD thread no less. You can call it incredulity all you like but the OBD is a site that is very well respected for their vs knowledge and large amount of seasoned calcers. If you would look through all the arguments in that thread perhaps you could see why it was and should be rejected.

That should be more than enough to mark this match as inconclusive.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

A single barrage of blows is not enough to kill Kenshiro. Why the heck is Jotaro's max damage output on his profile MCB+ only then?
You keep insisting that he can do it but you're only making assumptions. The feats are very clear that he can't get anywhere near Town level unless via assumptions.

Each singular blow has a max damage output of mcb+ we both can agree on this. Now imagine someone who can throw tens of billions of punches within just a single second with each hit having mcb+ power to it. Kenshiro would already be dead before the second is fully finished.

 

[D180]

A single barrage of blows is not enough to kill Kenshiro. Why the heck is Jotaro's max damage output on his profile MCB+ only then?
You keep insisting that he can do it but you're only making assumptions. The feats are very clear that he can't get anywhere near Town level unless via assumptions.

Each singular blow has a max damage output of mcb+ we both can agree on this. Now imagine someone who can throw tens of billions of punches within just a single second with each hit having mcb+ power to it. Kenshiro would already be dead before the second is fully finished.

Again, your claim of a billion+ punches has been debunked by the OBD, the very same site that bought your fog claim.

Unless you're trying to tell me that every human or item Jotaro has beaten with his barrage of punches have town level durability, I suggest you stop.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

I already brought evidence. A thread where the exact thing you're proposing (billion+ punches in single seconds) was rejected. And it's an OBD thread no less. You can call it incredulity all you like but the OBD is a site that is very well respected for their vs knowledge and large amount of seasoned calcers. If you would look through all the arguments in that thread perhaps you could see why it was and should be rejected.
That should be more than enough to mark this match as inconclusive.

Linking an OBD thread does not make it a credible source, I have my experiences with that site and it has been far from pleasent. I only trust them with calculations and that's it.

The guy basically says that you need a canon source for punches/s yet completely dismisses characters who can attack up to MFTL speeds.

 

[Xolon]

A single barrage of blows is not enough to kill Kenshiro. Why the heck is Jotaro's max damage output on his profile MCB+ only then?
You keep insisting that he can do it but you're only making assumptions. The feats are very clear that he can't get anywhere near Town level unless via assumptions.

Each singular blow has a max damage output of mcb+ we both can agree on this. Now imagine someone who can throw tens of billions of punches within just a single second with each hit having mcb+ power to it. Kenshiro would already be dead before the second is fully finished.

Or each punch wouldn't phase him as it's below his durability (town level). And regardless we disagree with you about the "billions" part very much.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Silver Chariot has been calculated to have mftl combat/movement speed. This stand is completely capable of swinging it's sword at MFTL speed without even removing it's armour or exerting much effort. Star Platinum has been able to contend with this stand therefore we know that Star Platinum's movement/combat speed scale towards Silver Chariot.

Do you wanna know how many punches/s someone with MFTL combat speed can dish out? You guessed it, tens of billions of them. All you list is some OBD thread who uses logic such as " only use canon sources to dictate punches/s " which completely ignores that Stands can attack at mftl speeds.

Also anything Jotaro blitz's and they survive would still be just mcb+. It will be calc stacking to get a showing of durability due to how many punches/s they can survive.

 

[Xolon]

Damage stacking is a shaky concept tbh. Even with timestop. A MCB+ Jojo characters has never shown a town level or higher feat through damage accumulation. And timestop doesn't seem to massively boost the damage done from a flurry either. If it was felt as one single much more powerful attack instead of just a lot of powerful attacks in a row then you'd see characters taking much more damage from timestop flurries of punches than regular flurries of punches but that is just not the case.

 

[Xolon]

Silver Chariot has been calculated to have mftl combat/movement speed. This stand is completely capable of swinging it's sword at MFTL speed without even removing it's armour or exerting much effort. Star Platinum has been able to contend with this stand therefore we know that Star Platinum's movement/combat speed scale towards Silver Chariot.
Do you wanna know how many punches/s someone with MFTL combat speed can dish out? You guessed it, tens of billions of them. All you list is some OBD thread who uses logic such as " only use canon sources to dictate punches/s " which completely ignores that Stands can attack at mftl speeds.

Also anything Jotaro blitz's and they survive would still be just mcb+. It will be calc stacking to get a showing of durability due to how many punches/s they can survive.

Even with MFTL speed that does not remove the limitation of stamina completely. For billions of punches to be proven other stamina feats on that level would need to be shown.

 

[Aurugermil]

^ This. I think Promestein already explained somewhere here that Star Platinum time stop doesn't do a stacking damage.

I will put my vote on Kenshiro because of D180 reasons way above.

 

[D180]

Silver Chariot has been calculated to have mftl combat/movement speed. This stand is completely capable of swinging it's sword at MFTL speed without even removing it's armour or exerting much effort. Star Platinum has been able to contend with this stand therefore we know that Star Platinum's movement/combat speed scale towards Silver Chariot.
Do you wanna know how many punches/s someone with MFTL combat speed can dish out? You guessed it, tens of billions of them. All you list is some OBD thread who uses logic such as " only use canon sources to dictate punches/s " which completely ignores that Stands can attack at mftl speeds.

Also anything Jotaro blitz's and they survive would still be just mcb+. It will be calc stacking to get a showing of durability due to how many punches/s they can survive.

Again, the feats and showings have shown no such town level damage output that you have been relentlessly pushing. Feats and showings speak louder than mere calcs or assumptions.

Star Platinum has given barrages to numerous characters over the course of the series and none of them have shown the same level of durability that Kenshiro has.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

That's not my point at all, It would be best not to strawman me or change the topic.

 

[LordAizenSama]

from a quick glance the argument for Starlight Platinum isn't accumilative damage, it's chip damage. At least thats what I think i'm getting from this.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

from a quick glance the argument for Starlight Platinum isn't accumilative damage, it's chip damage. At least thats what I think i'm getting from this.

This.

 

[Xolon]

^ This. I think Promestein already explained somewhere here that Star Platinum time stop doesn't do a stacking damage.
I will put my vote on Kenshiro because of D180 reasons way above.

I'm thinking of changing my vote from inconclusive to Kenshiro. I hadn't thought about how much the opposition's side relied on damage stacking til now. And with time stop not really doing damage stacking AMM's arguments have no ground to stand on.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Again, the feats and showings have shown no such town level damage output that you have been relentlessly pushing. Feats and showings speak louder than mere calcs or assumptions.
Star Platinum has given barrages to numerous characters over the course of the series and none of them have shown the same level of durability that Kenshiro has.

I am saying Star Platinum can punch billions of times per/s with each hit being mcb+. Kenshiro will not be able to survive such a onslaught of attacks. It's a speed blitz of epic porportions.

You say I should provide proof with why SP can punch billions of times, but when I say he directly scales to a Stand which can swing it's sword at MFTL speeds this is not good enough for some bizarre reason and I am only met with incredulity.

 

[Xolon]

from a quick glance the argument for Starlight Platinum isn't accumilative damage, it's chip damage. At least thats what I think i'm getting from this.

What does chip damage mean here exactly? I looked it up and its a fighting game term for doing damage through blocking. I don't see how that'll help Star Platinum damage Kenshiro with attacks below his level of durability.

 

[D180]

from a quick glance the argument for Starlight Platinum isn't accumilative damage, it's chip damage. At least thats what I think i'm getting from this.

If we go by the votes so far, we have 7 pushing for Jotaro and 7 pushing for Kenshiro.

At the rate this thread is going, it will only go in circles. Until more substantial evidence or findings are out, may I kindly request the result of this fight to be inconclusive?

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

When you're being bombarded with billions of hits with each one being mcb+ it will deteriorate Kenshiro's defense very quickly.

 

[ImagoDesattrolante]

Jotaro is immensely faster but not much weaker.

I don't know why this is hard

 

[D180]

Again, the feats and showings have shown no such town level damage output that you have been relentlessly pushing. Feats and showings speak louder than mere calcs or assumptions.
Star Platinum has given barrages to numerous characters over the course of the series and none of them have shown the same level of durability that Kenshiro has.

I am saying Star Platinum can punch billions of times per/s with each hit being mcb+. Kenshiro will not be able to survive such a onslaught of attacks. It's a speed blitz of epic porportions.
You say I should provide proof with why SP can punch billions of times, but when I say he directly scales to a Stand which can swing it's sword at MFTL speeds this is not good enough for some bizarre reason and I am only met with incredulity.

And again, that does not matter. He has blitz and pummeled numerous characters in his series ranging from humans, vampires, stands, vehicles, road rollers, diamond teeth etc. All of which are nowhere near town level durability. He can move fast but that does not mean he can hit hard based on his feats and showings.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Evidence for Silver Chariot being MFTL, Evidence for Star Platinum contending with MFTL combat speed Silver Chariot. (Silver Chariot can swing it's sword at these speeds, just to get it into your heads)

Characters with MFTL combat speed can attack billions of times per/s. Stop using incredulity and false claimings of me using accumulative damage and just accept this. I am getting quite frustrated now.

 

[Xolon]

Jotaro is immensely faster but not much weaker.
I don't know why this is hard

"not much weaker." That difference is still enough to the point Kenshiro can tank his and Star Platinum's punches. The jump from Multi-city block to town level is still a jump. And it's not like Kenshiro is only low town level either.

 

[D180]

Unless you're trying to suggest that Yoshikage Kira and SHA or anyone who has survived a time stopped barrage from SP is town level or above in durability, I suggest you stop and just accept that inconclusive result because the feats and showings speak much louder than the calcs and assumptions.

 

[Xolon]

Evidence for Silver Chariot being MFTL, Evidence for Star Platinum contending with MFTL combat speed Silver Chariot. (Silver Chariot can swing it's sword at these speeds, just to get it into your heads)
Characters with MFTL combat speed can attack billions of times per/s. Stop using incredulity and false claimings of me using accumulative damage and just accept this. I am getting quite frustrated now.

Kenshiro and Star Platinum can't damage Kenshiro then. a MCB punch is still just MCB no matter the amount. You can't force us to accept anything.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Saying that is like saying anybody who has survived a 100+ punch barage from Kenshiro should have their durability x 100. We don't get durability like that from this site.

 

[Aurugermil]

If both of them activates their greatest feat at the same time at the start of battle, Kenshiro uses Musou Tensei at the same time Jotaro Time Stop at the start of battle. In that situation, Star Platinum fist will become atomized when he punches through Kenshiro's body.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Xolo

Kenshiro and Star Platinum can't damage Kenshiro then. a MCB punch is still just MCB no matter the amount. You can't force us to accept anything.
Star Platinum can only throw mcb+ punches of course. However Kenshiro being able to withstand 68 billion of them within a single second is just incredibly absurd man, he will be turned into a red mist before he will even be able to move a muscle. Kenshiro will not be able to activate Musuo Tensei due to him being 4 million times slower than Star Platinum, it does not help that Jotaro himself has FTL reactions.

 

[D180]

Xolo

Kenshiro and Star Platinum can't damage Kenshiro then. a MCB punch is still just MCB no matter the amount. You can't force us to accept anything.
Star Platinum can only throw mcb+ punches of course. However Kenshiro being able to withstand 68 billion of them within a single second is just incredibly absurd man, he will be turned into a red mist before he will even be able to move a muscle. Kenshiro will not be able to activate Musuo Tensei due to him being 4 million times slower than Star Platinum, it does not help that Jotaro himself has FTL reactions.
And again, the feats say otherwise. Yoshikage, a human with durability nowhere near Kenshiro's level, survived and walked away after receiving a direct time-stopped barrage from Star Platinum. http://********.me/manga/jojo_no_kimyou_na_bouken/v39/c362/15.html

Kenshiro will survive it based on the feats NOT based on the calcs and assumptions you keep throwing around.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Killer Quee was the one getting punched, plus you forgot to mention the stand user itself was heavily weakened at this moment in time.

 

[D180]

That doesn't change the fact that Kira tanked it despite all the damage that Killer Queen got from the barrage which is 'supposedly billions of MCB+ hits' as you keep trying to push.

Later in part 4, Kira once again tanked a point blank time-stopped barrage from SP and Jotaro was at full health. Kira was even weaker after his fight from Crazy Diamond and STILL survived until being hit by an ambulance http://********.me/manga/jojo_no_kimyou_na_bouken/v47/c437/18.html http://********.me/manga/jojo_no_kimyou_na_bouken/v47/c437/19.html http://********.me/manga/jojo_no_kimyou_na_bouken/v47/c438/2.html

Again, a time-stop barrage is NOT turning Kenshiro into red mist as you keep trying to say because the feats tell a very different story. Unless you mean to tell me that Kira has town level durability like Kenshiro, I suggest you stop.

 

[SomebodyData]

@D180 are you honestly serious?

 

[D180]

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

[LordAizenSama]

For what it's worth, I do think Jotaro wins, Kenshiro isn't going to take repeated punches in the millions.

as for what chip damage is, think of a pick axe chipping into rock. sums up this fight.

 

[Xolon]

For what it's worth, I do think Jotaro wins, Kenshiro isn't going to take repeated punches in the millions.
as for what chip damage is, think of a pick axe chipping into rock. sums up this fight.

D180 has presented evidence of someone less durable than Kenshiro tanking "repeated punches in the millions".

If someone's attack is below your level of durability you can tank it. That is what Kenshiro will do here.

 

[D180]

For what it's worth, I do think Jotaro wins, Kenshiro isn't going to take repeated punches in the millions.
as for what chip damage is, think of a pick axe chipping into rock. sums up this fight.

He's not gonna just stand there and take the hits. He likely survives the first time-stopped barrage and would counter with other musou tensei, heal himself or use his KI barriers. Jotaro would have no way of getting pass those when that happens regardless of his speed.

Seriously, can we just leave this as inconclusive? We have been going in circles.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Kenshiro won't be surviving any barage. Jotaro's casual punches have been shown to inflict wounds upon The World therefore they equal mcb+ damage. Thanks to MFTL combat speed Jotaro can toss out billions of these in a quick timeframe.

You're using low end feats from a Jotaro out of his prime, use Stardust Crusaders at the very least.

 

[Alana_Fey]

Foolish, How can Kenshiro fight someone who is already dead?

Intangibility gives Kenshiro the win.


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