Jotaro vs Kenshiro

[Malcolm_Neill]

With the new downgrade Jotaro has gotton i feel like it's best to discuss this topic again.

 

[CuriousWatcher]

Can hundreds (or was it thousands) of from SP's city-block level punches get through the small town durabilty of Kenshiro?

 

[GreatestSin]

mhh, with timestop jotaro wins, without it i think kenshiro has the edge, at least if it comes to AP and durability, but star platinum is way faster than kenshiro so it would be hard for him to hit kujo, does ken have a attack that ignores durability?

if not i give it to jotaro ^_^

 

[Malcolm_Neill]

I would say so.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I'll give this one to Jotaro. Star Platinum's speed is Massively FTL and it will defend Jotaro whether or not the latter is aware of danger. Plus, time stop.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

Kenshiro wins mid-high difficulty.

Kenshiro is intangible and has superior experience and martial arts training.


Jotaro is already shindeiru.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

Bump

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

bump


Kesnhiro wins this.

 

[Mikoto_Misaka231]

Musical bump

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-POzIrRh0c

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

> Kenshiro activates Musuo Tensei,walks up to Jotaro and obliterates him.

> Jotaro activates Star Platniums "The World" and completely blitzes Kenshiro.

Seems inconclusive to me. As both parties can end the fight very quickly.

 

[Malcolm_Neill]

Jotaro got an upgrade to Multi City Block level+

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Yeah I would give it to Jotaro now. The difference in power is not far at all.

 

[Der_Purple_Ist_Dank]

Jotaro

 

[D180]

Let's see here, Kenshiro has the advantage in strength, attack potency, durability, attack range, experience, can heal himself with his Ki, hax in the form of Musou Tensei, he could likely sense or see Star Platinum due to his high spiritual awareness (I'm basing this on the fact that in Part 7, Gyro can seed Stands even though he isn't a Stand user) and there's also the fact that he can kill Jotaro with just one touch. Hell, if you take his cloud and ground splitting punch into account, he simply just needs to punch the air hard enough or fire his ranged Ki blasts and Jotaro is ****** unless he uses time stop.

Jotaro has the clear advantage in speed, thinks more creatively and has time hax on his side. However, the range of his stand is limited to about 10 meters (Kenshiro's ranged attacks are long enough to reach the sky) and its durability had a huge drop by Part 6 (dropped from A to E). In addition, his time hax is limited to 5 seconds and Jotaro can't use it repeatly since it drains him.

mhh, with timestop jotaro wins, without it i think kenshiro has the edge, at least if it comes to AP and durability, but star platinum is way faster than kenshiro so it would be hard for him to hit kujo, does ken have a attack that ignores durability?
if not i give it to jotaro ^_^

Probably Musou Tensei but Star Platinum's durability is way lower than Kenshiro's attack potency which is Town Level at least. Really, one good hit from Kenshiro on either Jotaro or Star Platinum would be enough to end the fight.

> Kenshiro activates Musuo Tensei,walks up to Jotaro and obliterates him.
> Jotaro activates Star Platniums "The World" and completely blitzes Kenshiro.

Seems inconclusive to me. As both parties can end the fight very quickly.

With Kenshiro's durability, he would more than likely be able to tank a SP barage during Time Stop, heal himself with Ki and either distance himself or straight up use Musou Tensei or his ranged ki attacks.

Ultimately, I'm giving it to Kenshiro since he has a clearer advantage in terms of stats and feats.

 

[BerialEdge]

I agree with D180 here. Kenshiro has every advantage minus speed. Either Kenshiro will tank everything Jotaro has and win that way or SP will be forced to eventually block an attack for Jotaro and it will be game over for SP and Jotaro.

Kenshiro takes this.

 

[Ancient-One-And-Only]

After having a discussion with D180, I would have to side with Kenshiro on this.

Due to the fact that while Jotaro dose have time-stop, it only last for a 5 second duration period in addition to the fact it makes him weaker.

So every time he attempts to time-stop Kenshiro for any reason, he'll simply get weaker which will eventually put him at a major disadvantage as doing so dose put a strain on his heart organ.

Basically, Jotaro would have the slight advantage but even then will turn into a disadvantage.

Further more, while Jotaro managed to break thorugh teeth as hard as diamond, it only took him at least 40 seconds to accomplish it, Kenshiro on the other hand can break diamond instantly.

To simply put, Kenshiro's feats speak for themselves.

 

[ShadMorgen]

Based on the points provided, I'm inclined to side with Kenshiro.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'm torn. On one hand, Kenny has way better...well, almost everything.

However, the amount of MCB+ punches Star Platinum can throw before Kenshiro has a chance to act is huge. Coupled with time stop, I really don't think people are understanding just how many hits Jotaro can land before Kenshiro understands what's happening. I'll give you a hint: it's a lot of God damn digits.

That said, one good hit is literally all Kenshiro needs to win, and if he can act, his solid skillset should all but guarantee he can land it.

Really not sure on this one. Depends on if Jotaro lets Kenshiro think.

Also, to a lesser extent, if we're using Star Platinum from Part III or the gimped Star Platinum: The World.

 

[D180]

Not every single punch from SP is MCB+ level. He needs to deliver volleys upon volleys of it first before its even on that level. The fact that it took at least 40 seconds before he managed to break the diamond teeth shows that he needs some time to build up the momentum to reach that level of damage output. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkYdlgox6tY

There is no way Jotaro will be able to reach that level of damage even in time-stop since he only has 5 seconds to work with. The only way that will happen is if Kenshiro just stands there and doesn't move.

Besides, Kenshiro has been shown to tank hits that are way above MCB+ level anyway and he would likely or instinctively activate his ki barriers or musou tensei if SP starts landing hits on him. The moment he does that, Jotaro is screwed no matter what he does.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Jotaro is very, very easily going to be able to reach that damage considering how fast his combat speed is and how many hits something of that speed can land in even less than 5 seconds. That's the thing. One of his only advantages is combat speed, and it's a really, REALLY big advantage.

Also going to point out that we don't use anime timeframes for things which were originally manga. Kind of irrelevant at the moment, but important to note.

 

[D180]

Jotaro is very, very easily going to be able to reach that damage considering how fast his combat speed is and how many hits something of that speed can land in even less than 5 seconds. That's the thing. One of his only advantages is combat speed, and it's a really, REALLY big advantage.
Also going to point out that we don't use anime timeframes for things which were originally manga. Kind of irrelevant at the moment, but important to note.

Which is again mitigated when we consider the fact that Kenshiro can avoid those barrages . Even if he gets hit with a SP barrage, its not gonna kill him immediately since he has tanked much worse. It will more than likely knock him over a distance like how it normally does. Kenshiro gets up, heals and gets serious.

Ok, since we are not using anime timeframes, lets take a look at the manga then. http://********.me/manga/jojo_no_kimyou_na_bouken/v20/c182/17.html http://********.me/manga/jojo_no_kimyou_na_bouken/v20/c182/18.html

The best I'm giving it is 10 seconds for Jotaro to gain the momentum to reach MCB level.

 

[BerialEdge]

Also, what is the scenario here? Are they in character or does that even matter to anyone anymore? In character Jotaro will probably choose not to insta timestop blitz since I've never seen him do that and he seems to enjoy fighting at his own pace. Kenshiro in character however is known for trying to kill his opponents as fast and efficiently as possible. If we are going for the insta win scenario, Kenshiro begins fight with Musou Tensei. I see Jotaro putting up a good fight with his abilities and time stop but wearing himself out before finishing the job. Iirc, Jotaro has nowhere near the stamina or durability of Kenshiro. This fight is just a matter of time that Jotaro can't stop forever.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'm not seeing Kenny avoid the initial barrage. The speed difference is just too massive. Of course, there's no guarantee it'll do enough to significantly wound him or finish him off, but he's definitely not going to be making the first move, or reacting to Jotaro's.

The link says it's unavailable, for me.

 

[BerialEdge]

Also in regards to the MCB diamond teeth breaking, diamond is brittle and subject to sudden impact fractures. Its just a hard substance. Crushing it is difficult but hit it with something in the right spot or enough times and it breaks.

 

[D180]

I'm not seeing Kenny avoid the initial barrage. The speed difference is just too massive. Of course, there's no guarantee it'll do enough to significantly wound him or finish him off, but he's definitely not going to be making the first move, or reacting to Jotaro's.
The link says it's unavailable, for me.

Even if Jotaro gets the first barrage in, it won't be enough to kill Kenshiro since his durability has been shown to be at least small town level after taking hits from the likes of Raoh who can do this with one casual punch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKS1qLxtmoA#t=435

Heck, he casually tanks hits like these on a daily basis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gh2vpMJVND4#t=96

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also in regards to the MCB diamond teeth breaking, diamond is brittle and subject to sudden impact fractures. Its just a hard substance. Crushing it is difficult but hit it with something in the right spot or enough times and it breaks.

The diamond teeth breaking isn't what got the MCB result. IIRC, Star Platinum breaking the diamond teeth was something around building level.

 

[BerialEdge]

Then why does it get brought up so much when discussing Jotaro's punching power compared to Kenshiro's durability? Kenshiro cackles at the tickle fest of building level punches.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Then why does it get brought up so much when discussing Jotaro's punching power compared to Kenshiro's durability? Kenshiro cackles at the tickle fest of building level punches.

Because it's not his max power. That particular feat is only building level (for each punch, obviously). It does not mean Star Platinum's maximum power is building level. I'm pretty sure that feat is just used so often due to being one of its most well known punching feats.

 

[D180]

Even IF we give Jotaro and SP the benefit of the doubt and say they are MCB+ level, its still not gonna be enough to kill Kenshiro.

 

[BerialEdge]

Pretty sure town level is on the middle end of casual for EoS Kenshiro, while Jotaro seems to cap around city block and even that is highly questionable from what I am hearing. Some circular scaling going on from the looks of things.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Even IF we give Jotaro and SP the benefit of the doubt and say they are MCB+ level, its still not gonna be enough to kill Kenshiro.

I don't see why that's giving them the benefit of the doubt when they were calced at such levels. What I'm wondering is if enough MCB+ punches in frozen time can manage to actually bust down Kenny's defenses and cripple him before he can fight back. Like I said, Jotaro only has the advantages of much more speed and time stop, but combining them gives him a shot. Far from a guaranteed win, but a shot.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Not every single punch from SP is MCB+ level. He needs to deliver volleys upon volleys of it first before its even on that level.

That's a misconception.

In this scan here we see both The World and Star Platinum throwing a barage of punches towards one another and Star Platinum manages to graze The Worlds forehead and cuts it. In this other scan we see The World catching Star Platinum of guard and knocking it down with a seperate muda muda punch.

If both of these stands can withstand mcb+ ke with no injuries whatsoever, yet they can do damage to eachother with casual punches we know the intensity of these hits are around mcb+.

Also in just a single second Star Platinum can throw 6.6x10^10 punches, all of which have mcb+ power. I don't think Kenshiro would be able to survive this at all.

 

[D180]

He got that MCB+ scaling because of that fog inhaling calc and The World was scaled to having the same level of durability since The World and SP are the same type of Stand. And since Star Platinum defeated The World, it is MCB+ level. All these is due to the fog calc which I honestly find iffy.

Not every single punch from SP is MCB+ level. He needs to deliver volleys upon volleys of it first before its even on that level.

That's a misconception.
In this scan here we see both The World and Star Platinum throwing a barage of punches towards one another and Star Platinum manages to graze The Worlds forehead and cuts it. In this other scan we see The World catching Star Platinum of guard and knocking it down with a seperate muda muda punch.

If both of these stands can withstand mcb+ ke with no injuries whatsoever, yet they can do damage to eachother with casual punches we know the intensity of these hits are around mcb+.

Also in just a single second Star Platinum can throw 6.6x10^10 punches, all of which have mcb+ power. I don't think Kenshiro would be able to survive this at all.

MCB+ punches isn't gonna kill Kenshiro when he can tank serious punches from Raoh. Raoh when young and still inexperienced was doing this kind of damage casually with just one punch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKS1qLxtmoA#t=435

 

[BerialEdge]

Isn't SP put at MCB because of scaling from The World? And isn't The World MCB because SP is? Isn't that....wrong?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Isn't SP put at MCB because of scaling from The World? And isn't The World MCB because SP is? Isn't that....wrong?

No. SP is MCB+ for the calced result of its defeat of Justice. The World is MCB+ via scaling from SP.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Isn't SP put at MCB because of scaling from The World? And isn't The World MCB because SP is? Isn't that....wrong?

SP inhales fog which got mcb+ ke therefore it adds to durability, the World is the same stand as SP therefore the durability scales. They can also do damage to eachother with casual punches therefore it also goes to AP/DC,

 

[BerialEdge]

Why again is inhaling fog put at MCB levels? Does SP even have lungs or an inhaling limitation like a living human? How do we know this is even effecting its durability? For a living breathing person I can see it. For a phantom born of an individuals inner power...not so much. SP not having lungs or anything to stop or inhibit it inhaling the fog makes me think that it wouldn't matter how much gas SP inhales.

 

[Austrian-Man-Meat]

Why again is inhaling fog put at MCB levels?

This is why

Also D180 comparing Raoh's barrage of punches to Star Platinum's is a terrible idea. SP can punch 10's of billions of times within a single second whilst Raoh can only do 1000 iirc.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Why again is inhaling fog put at MCB levels? Does SP even have lungs or an inhaling limitation like a living human? How do we know this is even effecting its durability? For a living breathing person I can see it. For a phantom born of an individuals inner power...not so much. SP not having lungs or anything to stop or inhibit it inhaling the fog makes me think that it wouldn't matter how much gas SP inhales.

The calc was for AP, actually. Surviving the KE of it is just a bonus. Of course, even ignoring that, you can just scale SP's durability to its AP due to fighting evenly against The World.

 

[D180]

Why again is inhaling fog put at MCB levels?

This is why
Also D180 comparing Raoh's barrage of punches to Star Platinum's is a terrible idea. SP can punch 10's of billions of times within a single second whilst Raoh can only do 1000 iirc.

You have got to be joking.

I'm not arguing over how many punches one can deal. Raoh can deliver more force and damage with one casual punch than what SP can do with a thousand. And Kenshiro tanked those with mild difficulty.