Johnny Bravo vs Cat Noir

Johnny Bravo is being all flirty around Ladybug until Cat Noir shows up and gets mad at him. They challenge each other to a show-off duel and Cat Noir wins. Round 2 is up and they fight each other for real. Whoever wins goes on a date with Ladybug.

Both high 7-C, season 3 Cat Noir used, speed equalized
Hey mama: 2

Hey M’lady: 1

Ladybug rejects them both:

 

[FireSwordHero]

Cat Noir only tried to use Cataclysm on Alya because he thought she is an akuma wearing Ladybug's mask or something, and as for Sole Crusher, he literally said he would only do it as a last resort if all else fails so she wouldn't destroy the city

Like I said, those episode's show that If necessary or a last resort (And I cannot stress that last part enough) Chat Noir is willing to use Cataclysm on person, but only then. While some can argue whether he would use it straight away or not, one thing I can say for certain is that as the fight would go on, it would be likely that Chat would use the power at some point, either because Johnny's toon force and regen would mean Chat couldn't land any meaningful hits so he has to bust out his super move to try and take him out, or assuming that with Johnny's cartoon powers, Chat would probably think that Johnny could possibly be an akuma.

I mean, the SBU's state that knowledge of opponent characters are restricted to just initial appearances, so as the fight goes on, it wouldn't be impossible for Chat to guess/believe Johnny could be an akuma with his Toon-Force, so he would probably think it would be ok to use Cataclysm on him.

I mean, I don’t disagree with the point that Chat Noir would Cataclysm Johnny; but it’s not like Chat Noir wouldn’t be aware that he put himself on a timer and Chat Noir himself retires to charge up again; and it's not like Johnny can do particularly nothing to stop him.

I don't quite understand what you are saying since what you said is confusing, but the way I see it Chat will be forced at some point to use his power out of desperation, his timer will activate go down and he will be force to turn back into a 9B human after, upon which Johnny stomps him. He could possibly hide in order to recharge, but that's a big if since Johnny can keep up with him since speed is equalized.

Also, since speed is equalized to Chat's hero form only, and Adrien is much slower than Chat, its likely that Johnny will technically speed blitz him before Adrien could get the chance to feed Plagg and recharge again, even if Adrien said frick hiding and retransformed in the open (which is kind OOC but hey its a fight)

And even then, Adrien being able to transform back likely won't change the outcome, since Johnny's regen is still stronger, so it will just end up going until Adrien slips up, runs out of food or someone gets too tired to continue. Granted this could be a way for Chat to win since his stamina is better than Johnny's , but considering other factors this is unlikely to occur.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

He could possibly hide in order to recharge, but that's a big if since Johnny can keep up with him since speed is equalized.

Johnny being as fast as Chat Noir doesn’t means he's capable of stopping him from hiding and recharging. Chat Noir has every mean from a superior strength, mobility and range to keep him at bay; while Johnny being as simpleminded as he normally is won't make him any favor.

its likely that Johnny will technically speed blitz him before Adrien could get the chance to feed Plagg and recharge again

Johnny doesn’t knows that Adrien is Chat Noir.

Adrien being able to transform back likely won't change the outcome, since Johnny's regen is still stronger, so it will just end up going until Adrien slips up, runs out of food

Why would Chat Noir attempt a second Cataclysm? Or an eight one for that matter.

I mean, the SBU's state that knowledge of opponent characters are restricted to just initial appearances, so as the fight goes on, it wouldn't be impossible for Chat to guess/believe Johnny could be an akuma with his Toon-Force, so he would probably think it would be ok to use Cataclysm on him.

I agree the Chat Noir would use Cataclysm on Johnny, but why on the world would he things that Johnny is an Akumatized villain? SBA also sets Johnny and Chat Noir in New York out of all places, the one place in the world filled with Characters with every kind of powers in the Miraculous Universe.

 

[GoCommitDi]

I was joking, jeez, like Ladybug could win in a battle with only Cat Noir and Johnny Bravo as its main combatants. I just wanted to write a funny ending.

My bad, I was just making sure

 

[FireSwordHero]

Johnny being as fast as Chat Noir doesn’t means he's capable of stopping him from hiding and recharging. Chat Noir has every mean from a superior strength, mobility and range to keep him at bay; while Johnny being as simpleminded as he normally is won't make him any favor.

Isn't speed equalized (at least to Chat Noir and not Adrien)? I don't think that Johnny would just let him run off, so he'd likely chase after him.

Above all else, Chat being able to recharge does not change the verdict. Johnny has proven to regenerate from being reduced to dust (which is something cataclysm already does), so even with Chat being stronger than Johnny in his base, its not like he will be able to make any meaningful hits on Johnny. If Chat's strongest power can't make any meaningful damage, who's to say Chat himself can do so?

Johnny doesn’t knows that Adrien is Chat Noir.

But Chat could transform back into Adrien in front of Johnny if he can't find someplace to hide in time. Even assuming that Chat could escape once to recharge, based on what I said before, its not something that could happen forever:

1. Chat could slip up and not be able to find a hiding spot in time.
2. While Johnny isn't as smart as Chat, one some occasions he has been shown to get a brief increase in intelligence, especially when motivated to do so. He could potentially get one of those brief increases to come up with a way to track down Chat or prevent him from escaping.
3. Chat's Quantum manipulation prevents people from directly recognising him as Adrien, but it doesn't prevent people from putting two and two together, like with Gabriel correctly assuming that his son could be Chat Noir, albeit not being 100% sure (and only being fooled because of Adrien's lookalike, Wayhem, appearing alongside Chat). Given his random bursts of increase intelligence, Johnny could potentially put 2 and 2 together and realise Adrien could be Chat Noir.

Why would Chat Noir attempt a second Cataclysm? Or an eight one for that matter.

Well... he could come up with a new strategy that doesn't involve disintegrating Johnny, but even then he regularly incorporates his superpower into whatever plans he makes.

I agree the Chat Noir would use Cataclysm on Johnny, but why on the world would he things that Johnny is an Akumatized villain? SBA also sets Johnny and Chat Noir in New York out of all places, the one place in the world filled with Characters with every kind of powers in the Miraculous Universe.

...Eh you got me there, but since Hawkmoth has appeared in NY, it wouldn't be too far fetched for Chat to assume Hawkmoth followed him with an akuma. Not to mention Hawkmoth giving an akuma wacky powers that often have no logic (aka something like Toon-Force) is kinda his MO with villains such as Glaciator, Pixelator, Gamer, etc. So Chat could possibly assume that Johnny's Toon-Force abilities are from an akuma.

However , I should point out this is a possible assumption. Its not something that Chat would immediately come to think (or maybe even at all), but is something that could happen during the battle given enough time and random chance. Also this doesn't really affect the verdict, but this does make Chat possibly more willing to use Cataclysm on Johnny if he thinks that the latter could possibly be an akuma. If any thing its more of a slight note than anything else.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Isn't speed equalized (at least to Chat Noir and not Adrien)? I don't think that Johnny would just let him run off, so he'd likely chase after him.

And then what? He doesn't know Adrien is Cat Noir so why would he attack an innocent civillian from his point of view? Remember that he don't know what we know about his identity

Adrien can easily hide and recharge with Plagg, and then not use Cataclysm again on him

Above all else, Chat being able to recharge does not change the verdict. Johnny has proven to regenerate from being reduced to dust (which is something cataclysm already does), so even with Chat being stronger than Johnny in his base, its not like he will be able to make any meaningful hits on Johnny. If Chat's strongest power can't make any meaningful damage, who's to say Chat himself can do so?

You realize Johnny can still be knocked out right? He doesn't need to overcome the regen to do that and Cat Noir has every advantage to let him KO Johnny (higher AP, more skilled, outranges him too)

 

[FireSwordHero]

And then what? He doesn't know Adrien is Cat Noir so why would he attack an innocent civillian from his point of view? Remember that he don't know what we know about his identity

Adrien can easily hide and recharge with Plagg, and then not use Cataclysm again on him

You realize Johnny can still be knocked out right? He doesn't need to overcome the regen to do that and Cat Noir has every advantage to let him KO Johnny (higher AP, more skilled, outranges him too)

Did you read any of the posts that I have typed? I had already given an explanation for each of the issues you mentioned, yet you seem to be intent on ignoring them and just attacking my initial statements.

I had already explained that is possible over the course of the fight that Johnny could potentially learn Chat's secret identity, either by Chat being unable to find a spot to hide in time and de-transforming in front of Johnny, or by Johnny potentially getting one of his bursts of smartness, and either coming up with a way to prevent Chat from escaping (which would lead to what I previously said) or even put 2 and 2 together to realize Chat is Adrien (since Hawkmoth could do it in Gorizilla, he just was fooled into thinking he was wrong).

Admittedly though, I should have made my intial message more clear, but with speed equalized Johnny can keep up with Chat if the latter tries to escape to hide and recharge, which could likely lead to him figuring out who he is by virtue of seeing him detransform. By that point it just becomes a stomp in Johnny's favour since his AP at that point will be bigger than Adrien's, and because speed is equalized to Chat's hero form, Johnny can technically speed blitz Adrien since's slower than when he's Chat.

Also as I've said before, Johnny's Toon-Force would likely prevent him from being knocked out.

But taking that whole knockout thing into account now, while it is now possible that Chat could take the win since his AP is greater than Johnny's (151 kilotons vs 113 kilotons), its difficult to assume that Chat could even be able to do so due to Johnny's Toon-Force (for reference stuff that would knock out/kill a normal person, like an anvil dropping on their head, at most only makes them dizzy in cartoon characters, though the duration to recover can vary due to a lack of visible time in cartoons), so even though Chat is stronger than Johnny, its unlikely that any attack Chat makes could knock out Johnny long enough to score a win (also, while still big, the AP difference not so grand that Chat could oneshot Bravo and turn him into swiss cheese). Also, considering Johnny's absurd regen abilities, its unlikely that any bump on the noggin will last for long, and since speed is equalized, Chat can't speed blitz him with enough hits to exhaust him to the point of unconsciousness. Also the thing about Chat being more skilled is dubious, since Johnny is actually skilled in Martial arts enough to beat a black belt in Karate.

At this point, I can't tell if you are deliberately ignoring whatever I types previously (since you seem to do nothing to refute them, just attacking my individual statements) or are just trolling to annoy me.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Admittedly though, I should have made my intial message more clear, but with speed equalized Johnny can keep up with Chat if the latter tries to escape to hide and recharge, which could likely lead to him figuring out who he is by virtue of seeing him detransform. By that point it just becomes a stomp in Johnny's favour since his AP at that point will be bigger than Adrien's, and because speed is equalized to Chat's hero form, Johnny can technically speed blitz Adrien since's slower than when he's Chat.

Um no.

1) The identities are magically hidden from humans and since he doesn't know either of them, how would he come out with this for no reason?

2) They're fighting in New York, a dense city with plenty of places to escape to and hide. Besides, I'm pretty sure Johnny can't leap to the top of roofs so Cat can hide in those.
Even if he could, Cat Noir have plenty of other places to hide and transform back

3) Both Cat Noir and Ladybug ran off to hide and transform back all the time. Why would it be any different here?

Also as I've said before, Johnny's Toon-Force would likely prevent him from being knocked out.

Explain how. Toon Force is a very vauge power and can mean anything without explaination

At this point, I can't tell if you are deliberately ignoring whatever I types previously (since you seem to do nothing to refute them, just attacking my individual statements) or are just trolling to annoy me.

Can't defend your arguments? Too bad

Yes I'm totally trolling since nothing is more fun that wasting my time in trolling people I don't know (sarcasm)

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Whereas I like how the discussion is going, I would recommend turning down the beef.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Alright. I apologize if I offended you

 

[FireSwordHero]

Ok turning down the salt, but anyways let me explain why toonforce would prevent Johnny from being Knocked out. (also sorry on the late reply, was traveling)

So with characters that have toonforce, when they get hit with something that would kill/knockout a normal person in that scenario (say, an anvil falling on their head or being hit with a bat), one of three things happen:

1. They become dizzy with stars above their heads
2. They gain giant bumps on their head and become dizzy
3. Both things happen

The thing is though, they usually recover from said bumps relatively quickly. Now I can't give any exact timeframes for this recover, mainly because most old era cartoons dont really have timeframes plus with said recoveries being inconcistent (not to mention its hard to find any cartoon clips that feature knockouts), but in most cases their recovery seems to imply that they recover from theses knockouts/KOs in such a short amount of time that the nexts scenes in said cartoons happen a relatively short time later, at most maybe 10-15 minutes later (since in most episodes the time of day rarely changes from one scene to the next). However if we wanted to highball it, we could say that characters with toonforce can recover from knockout/incapacitating blows near instantly, (such as seen and here, and here)

So with Johnny having toonforce as well, I think its safe to say that he would be able to recover from such knockouts as well in a relatively short time. Meaning that Chat trying to knock him out with his staff won't really work.

So just to answer some potential questions in that statement

But those cartoons you referenced are different than Johnny Bravo!

Yeah, but a lot of cartoons in that era tend to be similar in how their toonforce works. Also not exactly a knock to the head, Johnny has been hit to where he was seeing stars and then tazed (which in cartoons tend to means someone was knock people out) and was hit with a laser from a satelite. Also while writing this, I just found this clip now where Johnny got hit with a broom several times (the first one causing him to see stars), yet was completely fine a few moments later.

But being hit by an anvil/broom is weaker than Chat's AP! Johnny would easily be knocked out by that logic!

Well the way that I see it, characters with Toonforce (actually most shows/cartoons in general) tend to have inconcistent levels of AP durability, since cartoon characters such as Yosamite Sam are at times powerful enough to create a constellation in the sky, yet can be weak enough to be wacked around by an elephant. Johnny himself has also been shown to be inconcistent in his show, considering he can survived a 7C explosion yet can also be stunned by a tazer and knocked around by a girl with a broom. However considering that we based character profiles on their max (or concistent) potential rather that downscaling them on their low end feats, I don't think the inconcistency will be a factor here.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Even if Cat Noir wouldn't be able to knock out Johnny here, he can still outlast him with stamina. The transformation holds off almost indefinitely and as Aspik, who is comparable to himself as Cat Noir, Adrien could fight for months and show no signs of exhausion. Cat Blanc also survived for months without any food or water, and Bunnyx spended 5000 years locked up in a coffin before awakening unscathed with no sign of needing to eat or drink

 

[FireSwordHero]

Ok, I concede that Chat Noir could win in that one scenario. But the way I also see it, Johnny wins more times that not based on more factors than just stamina.

Giving a couple different scenarios here.

• Chat Noir uses his Cataclysm, runs off, then recharges, repeat - Johnny Bravo can recover from Cataclysm's effects due to his regen, and since Chat Noir has to run off in order to recharge, Johnny can just stay on him until the latter powers down, upon which its a stomp since at that point Adrien is 9B. Even assuming Chat escapes the first time, all it would take is one time for Chat Noir to fail to escape, upon which Johnny Bravo stomps Adrien.
• Same scenario as above, but Chat realises Cataclysm doesnt work so he sticks to using base abilities - Johnny's toonforce prevents blunt force knockout, and given Johnny's moments of high intelligence, I think that johnny is smart enough to eventually realize at some point that Chat's powers come from his ring and try to take it off him.
• Chat tries to Tire out Johnny - Johnny uses his remote to rewind back to the start of the fight, undoing the exhaustion. Granted this is a bit of a presumption, but assuming the remote has other functions such as a pause feature, he could also possibly use it to stop Chat in Time, realize the ring is Chat's weakness, and take it off him. Presumptions aside, the remote could rewind time back so that all the exhaustion Johnny has is undone, rendering it a moot point. Also Chat can't take it off him because Johnny keeps his items in Hammerspace.
• Johnny, by accident or curiosity, manages to pull Chat's ring off him: Well that's pretty much game over for Chat. He becomes 9B, Johnny steals his powers, game over man.
• Just to reiterate, I should point out that there is nothing really stopping Johnny from just taking the ring off Chat similar to how many akuma's have tried to do the same. Even if Chat tries to use Cataclysm to scare Johnny off, it still activates the timer.
• Regarding the possible counter-arguement that Johnny wouldnt realize Chat's weakness is his ring due to not normally being smart. I should point out (and its stated in the profile) that Johnny does have random strokes of high intelligence to do some insanely smart stuff, so its likely that given enough time, Johnny would get one of them and realize Chat's ring gives him his powers.

Anyways, to make a LOOOONG story short, Johnny wins because despite Chat's higher AP and better fighting skills, Johnny's own abilities/equipment render any ability/strategy that Chat could use a moot point. His regen makes Cataclysm not effective, and his toonforce, aside from resisting any attempt from Chat to knock him out, can keep Chat guessing as to what Johnny will do next due to rule of funny. The remote can redo the fight if Johnny gets stuck or exhausted, and since he keeps it in his hammerspace, Chat can't steal it off him to do the same. All of this ends with the fact that Chat has TWO very big weaknesses that ensure Johnny will eventually win in a matter of time, either by Chat depowering and Johnny stomping him before he can escape (even assuming Chat can escape the first time), or Johnny just straight up taking the ring from Adrien and depowering him permanently.

I consider this my final post on this matter and my final verdict.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Snip

This is not how abilities work. Specially Toon Force out of every ability given how

inconcistent

It is even within their own universe (Ed, Edd and Eddy who?). Let alone in different franchises. Equating that because they follow a similar style is as equating every superhero from similar mediums arbitrarily. And by the same token characters are able to remain conscious through X ordeal, they also can get to require medically assistance over Y thing. And whereas is true that we

based character profiles on their max (or concistent) potential rather that downscaling them on their low end feats

We don’t exploit a particular aspect of it into the NLF territory. Johnny can be knocked out, perhaps not as easily as the show implies at times, but knocked out regardless.

That said:

So with characters that have toonforce, when they get hit with something that would kill/knockout a normal person in that scenario (say, an anvil falling on their head or being hit with a bat), one of three things happen:

1. They become dizzy with stars above their heads
2. They gain giant bumps on their head and become dizzy
3. Both things happen

Seeing stars over your head and becoming dizzy it’s not a knockout, as being dizzy requieres you to be at least partially conscious. This parallel doesn’t holds up for anything other than saying that Cartoon Characters have superhuman durability, which is what we already know.

Chat Noir uses his Cataclysm, runs off, then recharges, repeat - Johnny Bravo can recover from Cataclysm's effects due to his regen, and since Chat Noir has to run off in order to recharge, Johnny can just stay on him until the latter powers down, upon which its a stomp since at that point Adrien is 9B. Even assuming Chat escapes the first time, all it would take is one time for Chat Noir to fail to escape, upon which Johnny Bravo stomps Adrien.

I already had my said in this matter. Chat Noir is more aware of his own weaknesses by miles, has the means to keep Johnny back and has a mobility which Johnny lacks. But I think we already have our personal resolution in that regard.

Same scenario as above, but Chat realises Cataclysm doesnt work so he sticks to using base abilities - Johnny's toonforce prevents blunt force knockout, and given Johnny's moments of high intelligence, I think that johnny is smart enough to eventually realize at some point that Chat's powers come from his ring and try to take it off him.

Wat.

Chat tries to Tire out Johnny - Johnny uses his remote to rewind back to the start of the fight, undoing the exhaustion. Granted this is a bit of a presumption, but assuming the remote has other functions such as a pause feature, he could also possibly use it to stop Chat in Time, realize the ring is Chat's weakness, and take it off him. Presumptions aside, the remote could rewind time back so that all the exhaustion Johnny has is undone, rendering it a moot point. Also Chat can't take it off him because Johnny keeps his items in Hammerspace.

The remote it's optional equipment.

Johnny, by accident or curiosity, manages to pull Chat's ring off him: Well that's pretty much game over for Chat. He becomes 9B, Johnny steals his powers, game over man.

Wat and how.

Like, Chat slips on a banana peel while leaping on a tree branch and breaks his neck after falling into a pit of acid.

Just to reiterate, I should point out that there is nothing really stopping Johnny from just taking the ring off Chat similar to how many akuma's have tried to do the same.

And failed to do so, despite that being their main objective in every encounter. So Chat Noir can defend himself pretty much in that regard bearing in mind that he has handled characters more directly dangerous than Johnny while also keeping his ring from being removed.

Regarding the possible counter-arguement that Johnny wouldnt realize Chat's weakness is his ring due to not normally being smart.

It's not about Johnny being or not smart, it's that you can be smart and not realize that somebody not only has a power source to begin with, but that power source specifically. Ladybug would die of jealousy.

Anyways; I think everything has been said, I think my vote is clear.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Johnny, by accident or curiosity, manages to pull Chat's ring off him: Well that's pretty much game over for Chat. He becomes 9B, Johnny steals his powers, game over man.

That wouldn't happen. Cat Noir has Class G LS compared to Johnny's Class K, and besides, Johnny will not realize it'll come from his ring, so he has no reason to target it, especially since I'm pretty sure he isn't going to steal random objects for no reason

Also, your vote for Johnny basically comes from scenarios that will basically never happen due to how unlikely they are

 

[FireSwordHero]

We don’t exploit a particular aspect of it into the NLF territory. Johnny can be knocked out, perhaps not as easily as the show implies at times, but knocked out regardless.

I did not mean that Johnny can't be knocked out (well technically I did say that, but I should have worded it better, sorry) I just said that given Johnny's habit of being bumped on the noggin and his toonforce, I find it extremly unlikely that Johnny will be able to be knocked out easily in just a few hits, much less be knocked out for for the whole hour necassary for Chat to win, since he will likely recover before that hour has elasped.

Seeing stars over your head and becoming dizzy it’s not a knockout, as being dizzy requieres you to be at least partially conscious. This parallel doesn’t holds up for anything other than saying that Cartoon Characters have superhuman durability, which is what we already know.

But it does show that Cartoon Characters similar to Johnny have resisted blunt force trauma before yet at most only become dizzy, the same blunt trauma which you imply will allow Chat to win.

(When I said Johnny could take the ring off Chat) Wat.

Yes I said it, because it IS a legitimate way Johnny could score a win, similar to how you imply Chat could somehow knock out Johnny for a whole hour by whacking his staff on his head (the same head which can harden its hair to the point where it can cut metal, so additional note, I dont think Chat can land a blow on Johnny's head if he cant event whack his way through Johnny's hair)

The remote it's optional equipment.

Now this is a topic that should go in another thread, but Im actually gonna call bullshit on the idea Johnny can't have his remote as his standard equipment. After all, if Johnny has exhibited any power, is that he does have the Hammerspace ability, which means it isn't impossible for Johnny to have it on him at any time. After all, he had the remote with him the entire time during that episode which he rewinded time without any real need to, so who's to say he wouldn't have it on him then when he fights Chat?

Wat and how.

Like, Chat slips on a banana peel while leaping on a tree branch and breaks his neck after falling into a pit of acid?

Funnily enough, Johnny can actually do that thanks to his probability manipulation (though admittedly he does need to "jinx" Chat first) though not to the outrageous extent that you implied it to be, though then banana peel thing could probably happen cause of the "rule of funny" cartoon characters tend to have.

And failed to do so, despite that being their main objective in every encounter. So Chat Noir can defend himself pretty much in that regard bearing in mind that he has handled characters more directly dangerous than Johnny while also keeping his ring from being removed.

And said akumas are controlled, or at least directed, by Hawkmoth, a guy who tends to become overconfident and impatient the longer he goes without getting the miraculous as seen in multiple episode (even inadvertetly causing his own akumas to lose like with Hack) and not im not giving a goddamn list on how many times that has occured because I want my life back from this thread. Also because their minds are technically corrupted, the akuma's Ladybug and Chat Noir fight tend to think irrationally because more often than not they are focused on whatever grudge they had when they were akumatized.

Also, Chat can be aware of his own weakness, but that's not to say that weakness is removed because he's "aware" of said awareness. It is possible for Johnny to remove the ring because :

1. Cat Noir has to be in melee to actually fight Johnny meaning he will always have to be close for Johnny to take his ring (at least when Chat isnt being an acrobat)
2. Johnny has shown to have random bursts of intelligence that have made him smart before, so he could deduce during one of those bursts that Chat's ring could be important/necassary to him.

Also hot take, but Chat doesn't probably have as much combat skill with actually fighting with his staff as you and Gilded actually think. At most he's probably used the staff to legitimately fight on at most 10 different episodes, and just mostly uses it to block ranged attacks by spinning it like a shield since a lot of akuma's use haxy abilities to mess with Chat rather than fight him directly (no im not going to make a list because again I want my life back), but whatever, he's a staff expert because Im not opening this can of worms right now.

It's not about Johnny being or not smart, it's that you can be smart and not realize that somebody not only has a power source to begin with, but that power source specifically. Ladybug would die of jealousy.

First of all, I think regular people can put two and two together to realize that the only piece of jewellery existing on what's basically a one piece catsuit will probably be important, especially if Chat decides to use it to use his power (since Cataclsym appears on the hand that has the ring).

Best case scenario for Johnny when he smarts up? He realizes Chat's ring is his power source and tries to go after it. Worst case scenario? Johnny goes after the ring because he realizes that what gives Chat that Catcylsm power that turned him to dust last time, and there is noooooo way he wants to be turned into dust again.

That wouldn't happen. Cat Noir has Class G LS compared to Johnny's Class K, and besides, Johnny will not realize it'll come from his ring, so he has no reason to target it, especially since I'm pretty sure he isn't going to steal random objects for no reason

Johnny doesn't need to supplex Chat to take the ring, and Chat himself should't weight that much for Johnny to lift, so if he just lifts him off the air, Chat can't "lift" Johnny since he no ground underneath to brace himself (though obviously he could kick himself out of Johnny's grasp.

Also speed is equalized, so its not like Chat will be moving so fast for Johnny to be unable to grab him.

Also, your vote for Johnny basically comes from scenarios that will basically never happen due to how unlikely they are

Im just giving Johnny my vote because his abilities and equipment give him the edges over Chat necassary to win. Johnny can recover from what is Chat's trump abilitity, his toonforce powers means he resists blunt force trauma and will likely not be knocked out for long if Chat tries to go for it (on top of his ability to harden his hair and prevent Chat from striking his noggin), and Chat has noticeable weakness that don't require anything from Johnny's own abilities/arsenal to exploit and can be used to give him the win over Chat.

Johnny just has more scenarios in which he could win.

Meanwhile the only scenario which you yourself said could give Chat the win is this:

I rest my case, though if you could give Chat any alternative scenarios by which he could win beyond whacking I would be glad to hear it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I did not mean that Johnny can't be knocked out (well technically I did say that, but I should have worded it better, sorry) I just said that given Johnny's habit of being bumped on the noggin and his toonforce, I find it extremly unlikely that Johnny will be able to be knocked out easily in just a few hits, much less be knocked out for for the whole hour necassary for Chat to win, since he will likely recover before that hour has elasped.

Any proofs for that? Besides Cat Noir can simply tire Johnny until he collaspes from exhausion if nothing else works, and you need to prove Johnny can't get knocked out. And if you bring other characters, it'll be invalid as they aren't Johnny

Also, Toon Force is very vauge (and wanked) power, and unless you can give examples of how EXACTLY it works, your claims are nothing more than assumptions

But it does show that Cartoon Characters similar to Johnny have resisted blunt force trauma before yet at most only become dizzy, the same blunt trauma which you imply will allow Chat to win.

I don't care about other cartoon characters. Johnny can certainly be knocked out and there's nothing stopping Cat from doing so. Start proving your claims for Johnny and not rely on "other characters have something similar so Johnny must jave too"

Meanwhile the only scenario which you yourself said could give Chat the win is this:

I rest my case, though if you could give Chat any alternative scenarios by which he could win beyond whacking I would be glad to hear it.

And that is a pretty reliable scenario for him to win. Cat Noir overpowers, outranges, resist blunt force trauma himself (as he regularly takes attacks from akumas comparable to him with little issues), and has the better skill and stamina

 

[FireSwordHero]

I gave my verdict and while Im happy to find more proof (that you are probably going to disagree with anyway) its late here and im tired and I need sleep. But to answer your last few questions.

Besides Cat Noir can simply tire Johnny until he collaspes from exhausion

Ok first of all, Johnny has shown comparable levels of stamina so thats pretty much a moot point (since Johnny was able to travel around the globe during a walkathon, going 3100 miles off course into the Sonoran Desert before traveling across the Pacific Ocean to China (using floating shoes) and continuing into Africa before finally returning to his home town), and secondly just because Chat scales to his akumatized counterpart not eating for several months does necassarily presume that he was awake the entire time. It just means that he does need to eat while transformed.

And going further, its not like Chat is going to spend the entire fight without using his power, since that isnt usually isnt how he acts in character, so at some point he's bound to use it, either on Johnny or some terrain and be forced to transform back because of the timer.

Also, even assuming Chat doesn't use his power, the transformation being indefinete is sketchy to believe because one thats a no limits fallacy, and the only two who managed to stay transformed that long was Bunnyx, whos an adult and is not constricted by the time limit, and Chat Blanc, who was powerd up by an akuma. And once Chat transforms back (because he eventually uses his power), who's to say that Adrien has that same level of stamina or he won't suddenly become exhausted?

Also magic remote. Your welcome.

Cat Noir overpowers, outranges, resist blunt force trauma himself (as he regularly takes attacks from akumas comparable to him with little issues), and has the better skill and stamina

Overpowers? Maybe, but not by that much since the AP range isnt that drastic
Outranges? I disagree, unless you think that he's going to make his stick 10 meters long and try to hit johnny like a pinyata. And besides, its OOC for him to do so, and his slightly extended melee range in direct combat isnt going to help much
Better skill? Debatable. Chat doesn't fight directly most of the time since most akumas are hax based, and most of the time he uses his baton just to block attacks. Plus he has a track record of losing and struggling with akumas who prefer direct combat, such as Copy Cat, Antibug, The pharoah, The mime, Anansi and others that I forgot about. Also Johnny bravo is skilled in martial arts so the whole "Chat is more skilled thing" is kinda a moot point as well.
Stamina? Already talked about it.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Magic Remote is optional equipment, which he doesn't have here

I gave my verdict and while Im happy to find more proof (that you are probably going to disagree with anyway) its late here and im tired and I need sleep. But to answer your last few questions.

Then I'll wait for you to explain your points

Ok first of all, Johnny has shown comparable levels of stamina so thats pretty much a moot point (since Johnny was able to travel around the globe during a walkathon, going 3100 miles off course into the Sonoran Desert before traveling across the Pacific Ocean to China (using floating shoes) and continuing into Africa before finally returning to his home town), and secondly just because Chat scales to his akumatized counterpart not eating for several months does necassarily presume that he was awake the entire time. It just means that he does need to eat while transformed.

Cat Noir literally fought for more than two months straight with no signs of exhaustion, so comparing that to Johnny's highly inconsistent stamina it is better, since that is literally his only feat for stamina in that caliber, and even then, there's no timeframe to how long he walked so that might be

And going further, its not like Chat is going to spend the entire fight without using his power, since that isnt usually isnt how he acts in character, so at some point he's bound to use it, either on Johnny or some terrain and be forced to transform back because of the timer.

And what stops Cat Noir from hiding before he transforms back? He literallly did that when facng villains far more haxxed and skilled than him. Also, Johnny can't leap to rooftops, while Cat Noir can easily do it, so it gives him a quick escape route. And unless you can prove he can't hide (which he definitely can and did it many times), Johnny isn't going to stop him from hiding, and Adrien will simply feed Plagg and transform back, and he'll not use Cataclysm on him

Also, even assuming Chat doesn't use his power, the transformation being indefinete is sketchy to believe because one thats a no limits fallacy, and the only two who managed to stay transformed that long was Bunnyx, whos an adult and is not constricted by the time limit,

The time limit only occurs after using said powers. Did you even watched the show? It was clearly stated that the holder can remain as long as they want, but will revert back after using their special power. Nowhere it was stated that this is a special property of Bunnyx, and since the kwamis give them the game general abilities, it can be safely assumed Cat Noir scales too

and Chat Blanc, who was powerd up by an akuma. And once Chat transforms back (because he eventually uses his power), who's to say that Adrien has that same level of stamina or he won't suddenly become exhausted?

Because that literally did not happen after Aspik detransformed after fighting for two months straight. Adrien was completely fine and dought later as Cat Noir as if nothing happened.
What you're saying is purely based on your headcanon and has no proof whatsoever

Also magic remote. Your welcome.

The remote is optional equipment. Again, you seem to not understand this, so there is no remote in this fight

Overpowers? Maybe, but not by that much since the AP range isnt that drastic
Outranges? I disagree, unless you think that he's going to make his stick 10 meters long and try to hit johnny like a pinyata.

Cat Noir literally does that all the time and it is in chatacter for him to do it. And yeah he can definitely do that. Oh and he can also use the baton to shield himself from Johnny's attacks too

And besides, its OOC for him to do so, and his slightly extended melee range in direct combat isnt going to help much

It's really not. He fights with his staff ALL the time. It's like you never actually watched the show and only has information from the profiles. Though what is OOC is what you try to argue for Johnny with specific and pretty contrived scenarios that will basicay never happen

Better skill? Debatable. Chat doesn't fight directly most of the time since most akumas are hax based, and most of the time he uses his baton just to block attacks.

There are many physical akumas in the show, and Cat Noir literally uses the staff all the time for attacking, not just for defense

 

[Peppersalt43]

Why did the discussion stop? It was going so well

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Why did the discussion stop? It was going so well

Fr

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump