Jin Mo-Ri speed upgrade

[Blahblah9755]

Jin Mo-Ri's reactions don't change from Monkey King to Speed mode, he just gains jets that let him move faster, and I this mode he was able to precisely stop and attack Nox King, so can his monkey King reactions be upgraded to mftl+?

 

[Andykhang]

Isn't it just teleportation, then he attack through that ?

 

[Blahblah9755]

Teleportation? What are you talking about? He grows jets to fly at high speeds, how is that teleportation? :/

 

[Andykhang]

Sorry, i kinda have a bit of miss-up in that.

Anyway, i still doubt his MFTL+ feat though. For one thing, the solar system is huge, like "it take light 2 minute to reach Mars from Earth" huge. It's so large, even when we have a telescope, we still need a probe jussssst to make clear visual contact. At that distance, even a planet is pretty much invisible, and pretty much showed by the fact that his friend can't seem to find him even with all these supernatural eye-balling and fox god tracking.(not to mention the fact that that solar system isn't made to scale with our).

On the other, we pretty much have no idea how long the fight between the king and the fox goes, or even the distance between Jin and him. We could used a different method to calculate his speed in that mode (on minimum) though That i would showed it later.

 

[Reppuzan]

He still blew past several planets in a hearbeat, so that's easily MFTL+. Hell, traveling between two planets alone at that speed is MFTL+.

 

[Andykhang]

That's depend on the planet itself, but let assume that the distance is like the distance between Mars and Earth. Because we're talking about light speed here, let take light at the measurement. And we will take the average distance, which is about 751 seconds, or just over 12.5 minutes.

From there, it's simple calculation. And turn out, you only need to move at 10x the speed of light to travel to there in about 75.1 second, or 1 minute and 15 second.

Let take the fight between the King and the fox to go on about a minute before he get stomped. Which that assumption, it only take the aboved speed for him to go there (assuming he detected the King right when he come). And 10x the speed of light is only FTL- FTL+

 

[Andykhang]

Note that the distance could be 10 times smaller than that, and the fox would still have to deal with a mind-boggling distance.

 

[Reppuzan]

How does that... what?

That's not a speed calc. Speed is distance/time. You just gave time with little justification.

Sure light travels that fast, but he blew by several planets. In a hearbeat

Let's give another example .

The King used his telekinesis to chuck two planets at Mo-Ri.

The average distance between the Earth and Mars is 225 million km. This happened in seconds given the fact that neither of them had moved from their position when it was activated. Let's take ten seconds as a lowball.

225,000,000km/10s = 22,500,000km/s

22,500,000 km/s * 1000m/km = 22,500,000,000m/s

2,225,000,000 m/s / speed of light = 75x Speed of Light

As a lowball, considering the fact that it was probably much shorter than that. If I were to use 5 seconds as a base (since it's much more reasonable) it's 150x the speed of light which is still MFTL

 

[Yamatohime]

The size of planets are not enormous though...

 

[RegisNex1232]

The size of planets are not enormous though...

They're still planets, the author just put Jin and the King in the spotlight, which is why they appear small. You can see one of them here when Park Ilpyo is looking for Jin in Oraeguk's remains. Note that Park doesn't even appear as a pixel.

 

[Andykhang]

...What?

In the move "Throwing the planet". The two planet is obviously way closer than the distance between Earth and Mars. Beside, when i said the distance, i mean the distance between Jin and the fight between the King and the fox. Also, in cosmic scale, it's valid to calculate distance by calculating the time light have to travel from one to another.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Also, in cosmic scale, it's valid to calculate speed in by calculating the time light have to travel from one to another.

No, a time frame is simply assumed whether cosmic or not.

 

[Andykhang]

Again, the point is that we don't know the distance between Jin and the King when the King confronted the Fox aside from "very far", and how long is the fight before the fox get stomped. Without knowing that, the calculation could wildly vary from FTL to MFTL+.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

That's why scaling is used.

and how long is the fight before the fox get stomped.

I don't see how that's necessary to the calculation.

Without knowing that, the calculation could wildly vary from FTL to MFTL+.

I agree, which is why I suggest you request a calc to be made here.

 

[Andykhang]

and how long is the fight before the fox get stomped.

I don't see how that's necessary to the calculation.

Because the longer the fight, the less speed Jin need (and thus, going to) to take in order to rescue his friend.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Need more input here.

 

[Andykhang]

Okay. Second point: We also have no idea what is the mechanism of his suit when he's in speed mode. Judging from look though, it's look like it a propulsion device, and act like one too ( there's a acceleration period when he used it). And, according to Einstein,there's no way, using that, you could be even at the speed of light without infinite energy.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

This is fiction. FTL travel is present in fiction all the time despite being scientifically impossible.

 

[Andykhang]

Fiction or not, there should be evident for such thing to happen. And with no known distance at that time and no known duration of his flight, there's no way you could prove that it have the capability to travel FTL too.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Which is why I advised you to make a calc request. However, since my advice was ignored and this debate has now come full circle, I'm closing this until there's a calculation to determine otherwise.

 

[Andykhang]

I already make a calc request though, awaiting result. It's about his minimum speed though.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Jin on this site is scaled from the expansion of his staff, which is MFTL (as it went from the Moon to the Earth before MHS+ characters like Han Daewi, Yu Mira, Jaegal with the Key and the Nephilim blitzing Daewi and Mira could react). He can react to it in Monkey King mode, and people who can fight him in that state (the Crown Princes, Park Ilpyo, Baek Seungchul, Lee Soo-Jin all with Charyeok, the King) all scale to him.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

@Andykhang I see. We'll just have to be patient then.

@RegisNex1232 Thanks for your input. Do you believe we should update his reaction speed to MFTL+?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the problem is that the wiki's thread update notification system does not work properly for all topics, so I, and others, do not receive notifications from the calculation requests thread despite being subscribed to it.

(I have informed Wikia's staff about this problem, and they are working to solve it.)

Hence, it is usually better to leave polite messages on the message walls of the calculation group members, and hope that one of them is interested.

 

[RegisNex1232]

@Andykhang I see. We'll just have to be patient then.
@RegisNex1232 Thanks for your input. Do you believe we should update his reaction speed to MFTL+?

For his Speed Mode yes, since he travelled a Solar System in minutes/seconds (I'm leaning towards minutes, though let me find the time taken) as the planet he was on was nowhere in the Oraeguk system (it was surrounded by some cubic stuff and Park in Charyeok spent months looking for Jin in the Oraeguk system and he's MFTL). For just his base mode with the armor (as his current base w/o armor is the same as his Monkey King mode) it depends, we have an expansion speed for it which he can react to, and he hasn't shown anything much faster than that. He could blitz MFTL characters, but I don't think he's MFTL+ w/o the Speed Mode.

For example, during his fight with the Seventh Owner, a blob which has insane regen, can clone itself and has high AP to damage Jin's clone (which are close to his strength and durability as long as they are near him), it kept up with Jin w/o Speed Mode. When Jin used his Speed Mode, he cut it into small blocks before frying it with thunderbolts before the Seventh Owner could react. Here's the final part of the fight: http://www.webtoons.com/en/action/the-god-of-high-school/ep-230/viewer?title_no=66&episode_no=231

 

[Andykhang]

The size of the system is depend though, and maybe it's one of the outer planet that can't be seen with even supernatural eyes that's still technically in the system.

 

[Andykhang]

Jin on this site is scaled from the expansion of his staff, which is MFTL (as it went from the Moon to the Earth before MHS+ characters like Han Daewi, Yu Mira, Jaegal with the Key and the Nephilim blitzing Daewi and Mira could react). He can react to it in Monkey King mode, and people who can fight him in that state (the Crown Princes, Park Ilpyo, Baek Seungchul, Lee Soo-Jin all with Charyeok, the King) all scale to him.

The expansion of his staff (according to your example) only rate itself on Sub-Relativistic+ (0.08c) though.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Not sure if anyone's noticed yet, but multiplying 22,500,000 by 1000 equals 22,500,000,000 m/s, not 2,225,000,000 m/s.

I'm still getting ~75.05 times the speed of light though, so maybe it was just a typo and not a miscalculation?

 

[Andykhang]

Since no one can prove that the staff could go MFTL, can we change that particular to only Sub-Relativistic+?

 

[RegisNex1232]

It went from the Earth to the Moon which is 384,400 km before MHS+ characters like Han Daewi, Yu Mira, the Nephilims blitzing them, and Jaegal Taek with the Key could react. So distance is found easily, for the timeframe we can assume as a very, very low end 1s (even though they have much faster reaction time). This gives us 384,400 km/s = 384,400,000 m/s = 1.2 times the speed of light which is FTL. If we take into account reaction times of the characters involved, who couldn't see it appearing, it becomes even higher. So Sub-Rel+ is too low.

 

[Andykhang]

Don't ask me, i based that on the calculation doing from here:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...Ruyi_Jingu_Bang's_very_first_extension_(GOHS)

And yeah, but MFTL is too high. Physics stopped working even at lightspeed, so his staff should have destroyed the universe the moment it expand. That, or this thing used space expansion between particle, and got heavier and denser because it absord and used dark energy , and energy=mass. ( dark energy is the theoreticle energy explained for expanding space ,though i can't find proof for that). Point is, it should be reasonable to tweak it at only FTL (at best).

 

[RegisNex1232]

Don't ask me, i based that on the calculation doing from here:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...Ruyi_Jingu_Bang's_very_first_extension_(GOHS)

And yeah, but MFTL is too high. Physics stopped working even at lightspeed, so his staff should have destroyed the universe the moment it expand. That, or this thing used space expansion between particle, and got heavier and denser because it absord and used dark energy , and energy=mass. ( dark energy is the theoreticle energy explained for expanding space ,though i can't find proof for that). Point is, it should be reasonable to tweak it at only FTL (at best

He took a low end as well as scaling from the sizes of the Moon and the Earth. Not really reliable considering the author's tendency to emphasize things at times, for example the planets thrown at Jin Mori looking like meteors.

Again, Superman, Thor, the Silver Surver all fly at MFTL+ speeds, Goku and others fight at FTL+ speeds, yet no one complains, why should we apply double standards here? As for FTL, that is a very, very low end, as I didn't take into account that the characters have reaction times that allow them to dodge lightning at point blank range. If I did take that as the timeframe, the actual speed would be much, much higher.

 

[RegisNex1232]

I'll be doing a rough calculation of the staff expansion here, so if I make mistakes, please point them out.

Jin has barely dodged lightning at close range here: http://www.webtoons.com/en/action/the-god-of-high-school/ep-132/viewer?title_no=66&episode_no=132 towards the middle. The device is also capable of cloud to ground lightning, which Han Daewi dodged more successfully and is made to mimic Mori's own Kinto-Un, which has also shown cloud to ground lightning.

Using the Lightning dodging calculation for Jin, I get a value of Mach 1100 (1.7*440,000/2) with the average speed of lightning and Mach 250 with the low end speed of lightning (10^5 m/s). For Daewi I get around 2200 m/s and 500 m/s. We'll take that as the low, mid and high ends for this calc (Han with lowest speed of lightning is low end, Jin with average speed of lightning is high end). I'll take reaction times as the time needed to move 1m in any direction, as that involves movement of hands and legs which is what is needed in combat (this part is all guess work, so I may be wrong. A calc group member might know better).

Reaction times would be 2 milliseconds (low end), 0.45 milliseconds (mid-low end), 12 microseconds (mid-high end) and 3 microseconds (high end). These are our timeframes for the time taken for the staff to go from the Moon to the Earth. They might seem extreme, but that is due to the speed difference between the two feats.

Distance is 384,400 km.

Low end = 384,400,000m / 2*10^-3s = 1.92*10^11 m/s = 641 times the SOL (MFTL)

Mid end (low) = 384,400,000m / 4.5*10^-4s = 8.46*10^11 m/s = 2819 times the SOL (MFTL+)

Mid end (high) = 384,400,000m / 12*10^-6s = 3.2*10^13 m/s = 1.1*10^5 times the SOL (MFTL+)

High end = 384,400,000m / 3*10^-6s = 1.3*10^14 m/s = 4.3*10^5 times the SOL (MFTL+)

So even if take the lowest end, the expansion speed is still MFTL and anyone who can react to it have MFTL reaction/combat speed. This includes Jin, The Nine-Tailed Fox, King Uma, Park, Baek and Lee with Charyeok, the Crown Princes and the King.

 

[Antvasima]

Again, you will have to post this as a blog, and then leave polite messages on the talk pages of the calculation group to have them check up if the feat is mathematically correct, and that the logical premises are as well.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Ok Ant, though note that this is just to point out that it could have been MFTL. I'll get to that later.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Ok, I've made the calc here. You can go check it out and comment on it.