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Ji Ning (Desolate Era) VS Wang Wei (JOTFDE) | Battle for the 4th strongest High 4-C non-smurf

What does Wang Wei (mainly) have in this key and how many layers does he have (and on what), just checking cause I'm like decently sure he beats Ning but I want to be sure

Edit: Oh nvm on the layers I'm blind
 
What does Wang Wei (mainly) have in this key and how many layers does he have (and on what), just checking cause I'm like decently sure he beats Ning but I want to be sure
Depends on if he deems the opponent as a challenge or not, a simple glance from him can freeze mind/soul and destroys it, which is also true will, so it'll powernull and break the cultivation of the opponent (same layers as Aura)
Though regardless of what he does, he releases his aura which can destroy soul/mind and brings overwhelmingly oppressive aura, or just causes them to kneel.

His aura is around 37 layers. As for everything as well, that is a bit trickier and I have to calculate it. For concept stuff though, that is 6 layers.

He usually starts with whatever is best for the situation, but in this key, just punching with pure force (pure force in this case breaks Laws/Concepts/whatever) and unleash danmaku techniques (like unleashing millions of wind attacks that form cyclones, tornados, hurricane that each are thousands of kilometers in size).

If the opponent is still standing pretty well, then he'll just go for his World Breaking Fist which is at the very least 4-B, and naturally breaks concepts and laws as well.

Of course he has a bunch of other stuff as well (memory erasure, amplifying pain by hundreds of times which also affect the soul which also amplifies pain by a hundred times, mind control, etc...).
 
Depends on if he deems the opponent as a challenge or not, a simple glance from him can freeze mind/soul and destroy it
Though regardless of what he does, he releases his aura which can destroy soul/mind and brings overwhelmingly oppressive aura, or just causes them to kneel.

His aura is around 37 layers. As for everything as well, that is a bit trickier and I have to calculate it. For concept stuff though, that is 6 layers.

He usually starts with whatever is best for the situation, but in this key, just punching with pure force (pure force in this case breaks Laws/Concepts/whatever) and unleash danmaku techniques (like unleashing millions of wind attacks that form cyclones, tornados, hurricane that each are thousands of kilometers in size).

If the opponent is still standing pretty well, then he'll just go for his World Breaking Fist which is at the very least 4-B, and naturally breaks concepts and laws as well.

Of course he has a bunch of other stuff as well (memory erasure, amplifying pain by hundreds of times which also affect the soul which also amplifies pain by a hundred times, mind control, etc...).
He isn't affecting Ning's mind or soul with that as its fused with his Dao and thus needs CM2/Law to interact with, that stuff won't be affecting it, if I was feeling particularly masochistic I would argue that he could potentially have enough layers outside of that for it to not matter, but I aint

Anyways if it's just 6 Layers I'm decently sure Ning's concept stuff cooks him badly, he would likely get caught in the spatial freeze which stops you from doing anything including passive and thought based stuff from which he can easily kill Wang

The punch wouldn't affect Ning on the law/concept side of things, and a far weaker and less skilled Ning could dodge attacks that were explicitly stated to have no room to move through, so the danmaku ain't working

He can prolly either dodge it or regen

Most of that won't work due to needing to affect the mind/soul which as I said above

Also I do just realize after rereading through Ning's profile, I notice that Wang doesn't have resistance to Para Hax, which Ning actually has passively, which actually could just turn this into a stomp
 
He isn't affecting Ning's mind or soul with that as its fused with his Dao and thus needs CM2/Law to interact with, that stuff won't be affecting it, if I was feeling particularly masochistic I would argue that he could potentially have enough layers outside of that for it to not matter, but I aint

Anyways if it's just 6 Layers I'm decently sure Ning's concept stuff cooks him badly, he would likely get caught in the spatial freeze which stops you from doing anything including passive and thought based stuff from which he can easily kill Wang
Is this the stage where he fuses with the Dao? I thought it was much later on.

Even then, it doesn't really matter. His Aura affected Supreme Realm dudes, whose Dao is directly inside their body and can summon it, and is fused with the Altar that is inside their soul, so I believe he should be able to affect him rather easily.

Also, I don't recall Ning having >6 layers in this key? I remember it being quite a bit lower.
The punch wouldn't affect Ning on the law/concept side of things, and a far weaker and less skilled Ning could dodge attacks that were explicitly stated to have no room to move through, so the danmaku ain't working
Said punches also destroy info type 2, though. The Daos in verse are Law, concept, and info type 2.
Also I do just realize after rereading through Ning's profile, I notice that Wang doesn't have resistance to Para Hax, which Ning actually has passively, which actually could just turn this into a stomp
How did his para hax work again? I did add paralysis before to Wang Wei, but I just opted with Aura instead.
 
Is this the stage where he fuses with the Dao? I thought it was much later on.
The Dao fuses with the soul in the Dao Domain level (which Ning achieved as a Wanxiang), breaking through to the Celestial-level fuses the elemental ki and the soul to produce Immortal Ki, so everything Ning does is conceptual to some extent.
Even then, it doesn't really matter. His Aura affected Supreme Realm dudes, whose Dao is directly inside their body and can summon it, and is fused with the Altar that is inside their soul, so I believe he should be able to affect him rather easily.
I mean, that really doesn't seem enough IMO.

In DE cultivators have their daos inside their bodies since Zifu level, doesn't mean a Zifu-level cultivator would be able to affect a Dao Domain level soul.

Also, Ning's soul is fused with multiple Dao-Paths at this point, including 4 Grand Daos which are a higher form of CM2 than the baseline one (not even just a simple higher layer, but a higher form altogether), affecting Ning's soul isn't really that simple.
Also, I don't recall Ning having >6 layers in this key? I remember it being quite a bit lower.
Depends on the hax, I guess, most should be at or above this level at the very least.

How did his para hax work again? I did add paralysis before to Wang Wei, but I just opted with Aura instead.
The one I recall comes from soul hax, idk if it would be useful here.
 
The Dao fuses with the soul in the Dao Domain level (which Ning achieved as a Wanxiang), breaking through to the Celestial-level fuses the elemental ki and the soul to produce Immortal Ki, so everything Ning does is conceptual to some extent.

I mean, that really doesn't seem enough IMO.

In DE cultivators have their daos inside their bodies since Zifu level, doesn't mean a Zifu-level cultivator would be able to affect a Dao Domain level soul.
I mean, in WW verse it is explicitly shown later on with True Will (Pnull), where it showed to destroy the Law Altar of cultivators (Which is their law), along with everything else, not just affecting the soul, which is why I mentioned it.
Also, Ning's soul is fused with multiple Dao-Paths at this point, including 4 Grand Daos which are a higher form of CM2 than the baseline one (not even just a simple higher layer, but a higher form altogether), affecting Ning's soul isn't really that simple.
A higher form usually just grants layer, even if it is more fundamental or whatever.
Depends on the hax, I guess, most should be at or above this level at the very least.
Well, if that's the case then WW would feel it, in which case he can just use to restrict basically anything, or can make it so that Ji Ning doesn't try to really kill/incap but toy with him (not that he can kill him, only incap him due to fate shenanigans), or, if we do consider he can affect Ning, then his Power null alone should do the trick. Even then, WW's oppressive Aura remains, Supernatural luck remains, destiny's son remains, which is so nuts and grants him immense luck to the point it becomes infuriatingly hard to kill him, with there being instances that people fell and a meteor suddenly fell on them, and Info type 2 destruction is still a thing.
The one I recall comes from soul hax, idk if it would be useful here.
If soul hax then it's definitely covered by his resistances, since it covers paralysis as well (that's literally what Wang Wei did).
 
I mean, in WW verse it is explicitly shown later on with True Will (Pnull), where it showed to destroy the Law Altar of cultivators (Which is their law), along with everything else, not just affecting the soul, which is why I mentioned it.
Got it, I think.

A higher form usually just grants layer, even if it is more fundamental or whatever.
I don't think so? Stacking layers on any given hax doesn't make it more fundamental, so when such a jump is brought up I'd say it's better than any layer.

Well, if that's the case then WW would feel it, in which case he can just use to restrict basically anything, or can make it so that Ji Ning doesn't try to really kill/incap but toy with him (not that he can kill him, only incap him due to fate shenanigans)
How does that work? If it's tied to his fate hax, Ning has layered acausality type 4.

, or, if we do consider he can affect Ning, then his Power null alone should do the trick. Even then, WW's oppressive Aura remains, Supernatural luck remains, destiny's son remains, which is so nuts and grants him immense luck to the point it becomes infuriatingly hard to kill him, with there being instances that people fell and a meteor suddenly fell on them, and Info type 2 destruction is still a thing.
Same as above for the supernatural luck, what exactly even is an oppressive Aura?
 
I don't think so? Stacking layers on any given hax doesn't make it more fundamental, so when such a jump is brought up I'd say it's better than any layer
We don't have "better than any layer" concept on the wiki tho. I'm not really against it, this verse also has that but again don't think it's a thing on the wiki
 
We don't have "better than any layer" concept on the wiki tho
We do? Even without leaving the topic of CM, layered CM2 won't ever become CM1 or resist it, a jump that is still in the boundaries of CM2 may not sound as impressive but it's still a fundamental gap IMO.
 
We do? Even without leaving the topic of CM, layered CM2 won't ever become CM1 or resist it, a jump that is still in the boundaries of CM2 may not sound as impressive but it's still a fundamental gap IMO.
Do you have a tread where the gap between daos (that are type 2) is treated the same as gap between type 1 and 2 accepted?
 
Do you have a tread where the gap between daos (that are type 2) is treated the same as gap between type 1 and 2 accepted?
That's not what I claimed tho.

Grand Daos are a higher level of Dao than Lesser Daos even if both are rated as type 2, I only brought type 1 up to debunk your claim that there weren't things that can't be surpassed by layers.

The novels straight up say that Ning, who already had fused his soul with a Lesser Dao, achieved a fundamental evolution upon reaching Domain-level in the Sword:

"Ning’s soul suddenly transformed into a sword, an incomparably dazzling sword. This was the sword-soul, which only a Sword Immortal who had truly reached the Grand Dao Domain level would possess. This was a fundamental change, an evolution of the soul." (Book 10, chapter 25)

This without including the statements explicitly saying Grand Daos are countless times stronger or even taking into account that Grand Daos contain Lesser Daos inside themselves.
 
That's not what I claimed tho.

Grand Daos are a higher level of Dao than Lesser Daos even if both are rated as type 2, I only brought type 1 up to debunk your claim that there weren't things that can't be surpassed by layers.

The novels straight up say that Ning, who already had fused his soul with a Lesser Dao, achieved a fundamental evolution upon reaching Domain-level in the Sword:

"Ning’s soul suddenly transformed into a sword, an incomparably dazzling sword. This was the sword-soul, which only a Sword Immortal who had truly reached the Grand Dao Domain level would possess. This was a fundamental change, an evolution of the soul." (Book 10, chapter 25)

This without including the statements explicitly saying Grand Daos are countless times stronger or even taking into account that Grand Daos contain Lesser Daos inside themselves.
So it's not accepted?
 
Even if we say that there are that's fine then, but is your case the one that fits? Do you have a tread accepted for beasically more then infinite layers of cm2?
 
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