Is using complicated calculations really that reliable for powerscaling?

[LoudCloud]

So I noticed this site uses calculations from websites like Narutoforums to calculate a character's destructive capabilities, durability etc. While at times I feel this is straight-forward and makes perfect sense, other times it seems like they're just looking too much into it to the point where it seems out of place from the author's original intention for the character's strength. Do you really think an author or artist draws everything to scale and is like "yep, by calculation the circumfrence of this and the pixels of this I can deduct that this character is definetly a planet-buster just like I intended". But it's not even that I have a problem with. It's the fact that once that happens the other characters in the series tend to get powerscaled accordingly. Whereas using convoluted scientific calculations to determine a character's strength is one thing (that can be a huge outlier and misrepresentation of a character a lot of the time), to say all other characters are similar to that is a downright insult to the author. It's like we're letting a calculation that might misrepresent a certain characters do it for the entire verse. Once a character has some narutoforum calculation deeming them a country-buster even if they've struggled against far weaker enemies and there's no reason for an upgrade that big, the entire verse gets to that level.

Let's take the way Mario from Super Mario Galaxy is somehow a Galaxy-buster. Don't you find that a misrepresentation? Doesn't that go against Mario being one-shotted by Kamek? If not, then wouldn't that make Kamek a multi-galaxy buster? Then why wouldn't Bowser use Kamek to aid him in destroying galaxies and why wouldn't all the other Mario enemies be put at a similar level? Galaxy-buster Goomba anyone? And this is true for other series. If Megaman is a small planet buster wouldn't he simply obliterate Willy's castle without even needing to go inside? You see. Using calculations and powerscaling so loosely creates more confusion and outliers than not. This website seems to have a problem with outliers. It treats them as a misrepresentation usually but somehow not when it comes from some convoluted calculation that is obviously looking way too much into something that wasn't intended. Ideas?

Also, why aren't the comments on this site showing anymore? Did I miss an update?

 

[RavenSupreme]

you basically just confirmed almost the entire mario verse to be galaxy level

jk

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Oh and the comment section is disabled because it's supposed to give us the staff less workload to deal with.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

A lot of the time, calcs are the only way to accurately determine the power of a character as opposed to just eyeballing it. If a calc reveals a character's feat was country level, that should be considered accurate as just eyeballing the feat and going, "Hmm...looks like building level" is both entirely inaccurate and unfair to the character.

Anyway, not sure about the Mario example, as it's not based on a calc. Don't see how it relates.

 

[LordXcano]

If it helps you any I made a thread about Mario and I believe staff is coming to a conclusion

I do agree with the blowing-out-of-the-water points though

[looks at FF7]

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

I heard Someone say once that the more steps scaling takes the less accurate it becomes or something along those lines.

 

[Antvasima]

You obviously have a point that many franchises are extremely inconsistent and that we recurrently tend to use the extreme points to gauge the charactersrather than the average, but calculations are often all that we have to go by, and we have to evaluate the statistics somehow.

I agree that plenty of the pages here have probably turned unreliable because of it, but we simply do not have the resources/time, focus, energy & manpower to check through that all of them follow common sense.

In some cases we end up with results that clearly seem to go against what the author intended though. You have a point that we certainly do not see Cloud & Tifa with solar system level power in Advent Children.

Basically, I have tried to introduce some measure of common sense in certain cases, such as the point that travel speed and movement speed are usually presented as very different things in most fiction, but even so it is a vain uphill battle that I do not have much energy for, as I am very busy just trying to monitor this place and there is an entire culture that is used to equating the two.

 

[LoudCloud]

That's my point. If a calc is all that we have for determing a certain character we shouldn't tag it onto other characters of the same verse that already have their own established tier. Only if it makes sense within that verse. It might seem logical to powerscale everything but we all know powerscaling can be a terrible representation of a character, otherwise the sonic verse would be universal (with Solaris and all) and so on. I have no problem with using calcs but I do if it's using a calc from a singular feat that may be an outlier, especially if they then powerscale it with the entire verse.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, as I said, we usually try to establish if a feat is an outlier that contradicts everything else, but it is hard when the fans of the franchise usually want the highest rating possible, and are recurrently more interested in/informed about the franchise than the admins, who have to handle many other matters at the same time as well. Of course, in the case of FFVII one of our admins is a fan of the franchise and implemented the upgrade, and a member of the calculation group (and the OBD) did a very thorough logical defense of the statistics.

As I said above, it is a hopeless battle trying to change every convention in the community. I have done a few major things, such as implementing the Anime Character Fights tiering system (with a few modifications), but even that has resulted in thousands of hours of work. I cannot be expected to change the conventions of an entire culture.

 

[LoudCloud]

I understand. We're still a pretty small wiki. I guess I'm just a little butthurt because I've been looking so long for a completely reliable VS website that didn't overlook or look too much into certain aspects of determining a character's power. This website is the closest I've gotten but as always people will be people and works or fiction are hardly set in stone enough for there to be a logical answer to everything. All we can do is make sure we keep the Wiki as tidy as possible and discuss things in a civil way.

 

[LordXcano]

"but it is hard when the fans of the franchise usually want the highest rating possible"

This is usually what I find weirdest. Like, a lot of characters here already have good feats. Why do people insist on Character X from Generic Fighting Game 9 being Solar Tier when they already have city-level feats. Yeah, they may not be able to tango with Superman, but there are still other people they can reliably fight with?

Also bold out of nowhere I don't think I can get rid of it thanks Wikia.

 

[Antvasima]

Actually, according to the latest monthly statistics, we currently easily have the most individual visitors of all battleboard wikis in the world today (1.73 Million visits and 160000 to 218000 individual visitors a month), but we are obviously still small compared to the Marvel wiki and the like.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also bold out of nowhere I don't think I can get rid of it thanks Wikia.

Boom.

 

[LoudCloud]

This wiki in 5 years be like:

- Naruto characters being lightspeed due to OVA animation.

- Batman is tier 0 due to meme.

- Tifa being galaxy-level cause her **** are that size.

- Whis moved tier -1 (a new tier for beings that can defeat tier 0) due to out-of-context Akira Toriyama quote.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we are trying to keep it within what has actually been shown at least, but yes, all battleboard wikis have lots of unreliable profiles due to the sheer number of contributors and limited number of admins, with limited knowledge and energy. We do our best to keep as many of them as possible reliable however. Still, 5 years is a long time, and I extremely doubt that I will last nearly that long.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

- Whis moved tier -1 (a new tier for beings that can defeat tier 0) due to out-of-context Akira Toriyama quote.

"W................his........................Sol......................o....s............l...ol...." -- heavily doctored Toriyama quote, probably

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

This wiki in 5 years be like:

- Naruto characters being lightspeed due to OVA animation.

- Batman is tier 0 due to meme.

- Tifa being galaxy-level cause her **** are that size.

- Whis moved tier -1 (a new tier for beings that can defeat tier 0) due to out-of-context Akira Toriyama quote.

LOL

 

[LoudCloud]

I think I just got a whole new amount of respect for admins here. They seem like overworked parents trying to stop their kids from fighting each other. Anyway, this thread can be closed now, I don't know how to.