Is This Enough For All the Verse Powers?

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Done. hey remember when this thread was about verse powers

 

[Thelastmlg]

Yeah i think this all togheter should be fine and if the wiki's standards don't allow it, well is a good thing i don't religiously follow it anymore, especially after the arceus war we had.

I mean, speaking of strict standards that make no one fit, from what i recall the only verse that fits in the super specific "multiple above baseline 2-A" standard is DND, no idea how they managed to but yeah, one verse, and the standard is stupid

 

[Orioreeem]

"multiple above baseline 2-A" standard is DND

Are you talking about AP above baseline or range above baseline

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

wasn't there a staff discussion regarding granting all of the verse power? iirc they tried to make a stricter standard for it, that even UES or creating the system doesn't mean they created the technique originally made by the users using the system.

 

[Newendigo]

Just what I said at the beginning fam

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

guys there were 2 other points, i know the first one alone isn't enough

 

[azontr]

Some of these mfs don't read tbh

 

[Newendigo]

I mean the staff discussion lol.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Are you talking about AP above baseline or range above baseline

Yes

 

[Orioreeem]

Yes

There are also few other verses that qualify for at least one of the two don't know if there is any other that qualify for both

 

[Thelastmlg]

There are also few other verses that qualify for at least one of the two

then they were probably qualified after i saw the last time someone mentioned it, interesting tho

 

[DontTalkDT]

Personally, I don't think so, although it depends on context.
Practical examples: The computer gods clear those aside from the creating the verse stuff and they definitely don't have all abilities.
Noah has all aside of omnipresence and definitely doesn't have all.
Generally omnipresence means nothing for abilities, you can create a magic system and not have every spell in it and you can be the incarnation of the concepts of the multiverse and not have everyone's abilities.

 

[Nierre]

Well if they created the magic system, wouldn't that mean that they have all the magics that are in that system??

If it was like Naruto (where being the creator of chakra does not necessarily mean that you have access to every Jutsu*), then I could see why it wouldn't qualify.

But this if that's not the same scenario/situation, then why wouldn't it?


* - This is an example

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I know those things by themselves generally don't qualify, but what about when combined? Also, what about sustaining magic with your existence (as in, if the character dies or is erased, magic can't be used by anyone anymore)? I also feel like being omnipresent inside all living things should grant you access to their abilities to some extent, at least. After all, their physiological traits and the abilities they use would just be an extension of yourself in that case, right?

This wouldn't apply to all omnipresent characters either, just those who have confirmation of its being existing inside every living thing.

EDIT: The omnipresence bit I mentioned is apparently why Madoka has all the PMMM verse powers, so I guess there's precedent, though idk if her having that would still fly under new scrutiny.

 

[Sniper670]

Well if they created the magic system, wouldn't that mean that they have all the magics that are in that system??

If it was like Naruto (where being the creator of chakra does not necessarily mean that you have access to every Jutsu*), then I could see why it wouldn't qualify.

But this if that's not the same scenario/situation, then why wouldn't it?


* - This is an example

From DT, he says It doesn't mean you can use special techniques others learned with the magic system.

Maybe you gave them Water bending, but you didn't give blood bending that was developed by someone using your own magic system to do it.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I thought we had stricter standards for this, but that's good to know. Touhou is well on its way to being the strongest tier 2 verse >: )

DND: Hello there

 

[Sniper670]

I know those things by themselves generally don't qualify, but what about when combined? Also, what about sustaining magic with your existence (as in, if the character dies or is erased, magic can't be used by anyone anymore)? I also feel like being omnipresent inside all living things should grant you access to their abilities to some extent, at least. After all, their physiological traits and the abilities they use would just be an extension of yourself in that case, right?

This wouldn't apply to all omnipresent characters either, just those who have confirmation of its being existing inside every living thing.

EDIT: The omnipresence bit I mentioned is apparently why Madoka has all the PMMM verse powers, so I guess there's precedent, though idk if her having that would still fly under new scrutiny.

• The Original One is in all things. The Original One is nowhere at all."
• "From all creations, over all creations, does the Original One watch

This wasn't even enough.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

dude stop bringing up arceus i dont ******* care

 

[Sniper670]

1. You need help with something you send it to qna
2. I come in to help out because your question is similar to something that happened before
3. Op Complains


Wtf is up with you anyway


If you have your answers then get the hell out of here lol

 

[Nierre]

From DT, he says It doesn't mean you can use special techniques others learned with the magic system.

Maybe you gave them Water bending, but you didn't give blood bending that was developed by someone using your own magic system to do it.

Well in that case I agree

 

[DontTalkDT]

Well if they created the magic system, wouldn't that mean that they have all the magics that are in that system??

If it was like Naruto (where being the creator of chakra does not necessarily mean that you have access to every Jutsu*), then I could see why it wouldn't qualify.

But this if that's not the same scenario/situation, then why wouldn't it?


* - This is an example

That's tautologically true. I.e. if "being the creator of the system does not necessarily mean that you have access to every technique" is a false statement, then indeed "being the creator means that you have access to every technique" would be a true statement.
Problem is to prove that the former is in fact a false statement, as that's not something I'm just gonna assume per default without evidence.

I know those things by themselves generally don't qualify, but what about when combined? Also, what about sustaining magic with your existence (as in, if the character dies or is erased, magic can't be used by anyone anymore)? I also feel like being omnipresent inside all living things should grant you access to their abilities to some extent, at least. After all, their physiological traits and the abilities they use would just be an extension of yourself in that case, right?

This wouldn't apply to all omnipresent characters either, just those who have confirmation of its being existing inside every living thing.

EDIT: The omnipresence bit I mentioned is apparently why Madoka has all the PMMM verse powers, so I guess there's precedent, though idk if her having that would still fly under new scrutiny.

Don't see how the factors link up into something greater than their parts.

Sustaining magic with your existence isn't enough IMO. Both examples I mentioned do that. Noah via being literally all concepts in the verse, including every concept of every superpower. The computer gods via being the power source of magic. Being required means little when it comes to mastery of techniques. Like, as a really simple example, you can't use a technique you don't know about.

Omnipresence often just means existing everywhere, not some deeper connection. Now, if you can take control of literally everyone you could have them use their abilities in your stead. Wouldn't really count that as your own ability, though.

 

[Sniper670]

Nice

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Don't see how the factors link up into something greater than their parts.

I mean I'm pretty sure we do that for a lot of high-end stuff like this, idk why hax would be any different.

Sustaining magic with your existence isn't enough IMO. Both examples I mentioned do that. Noah via being literally all concepts in the verse, including every concept of every superpower. The computer gods via being the power source of magic. Being required means little when it comes to mastery of techniques. Like, as a really simple example, you can't use a technique you don't know about.

I disagree with that, if a technique is literally a part of your existence, then you should be able to use it, since in a way, you are that technique. A character who is in part made of fire would probably gain fire manipulation, for example.

Omnipresence often just means existing everywhere, not some deeper connection. Now, if you can take control of literally everyone you could have them use their abilities in your stead. Wouldn't really count that as your own ability, though.

I'm saying if there is a deeper connection, it should qualify. Obviously it'd only apply in cases like Madoka, where she has all the verse powers since the users of those powers are a part of her existence. A lot of omnipresent characters are kinda vague in nature, or omnipresent in one aspect (like existing as a concept across the universe), but not in other ways, so this wouldn't be the same as giving all omnipresent characters all the verse powers.

If an aspect of yourself can use an ability, idk why it wouldn't be your ability; Like yeah it's only a small fraction of "you", but it is still you. I don't see how it's much different from giving characters with a "true form" the abilities of their avatars or previous forms.