Is infinite-dimensional, contradictory?

[MightyFrogBeyond]

New to powerscaling and I learn better with very simple explanations ( feel free to dumb your responses down just don’t be condescending )

In this scenario, let’s say a standard universe is 4-dimensional.
In my cosmology, a universe is infinite-dimensional but
I learned a 5-dimensional space is just a container for 2-infinite, 4 dimensional universes ( a multiverse ).

Now, how can my universe stay a universe while ALSO being infinite-dimensional if by that point, it would’ve become a multiverse?

 

[KingNanaya]

this is a good question. give me a bit to type out an answer

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

this is a good question. give me a bit to type out an answer

Have you come to a conclusion?

 

[KingNanaya]

Have you come to a conclusion?

I started typing then took a nap, my bad.

In my cosmology, a universe is infinite-dimensional but
I learned a 5-dimensional space is just a container for 2-infinite, 4 dimensional universes ( a multiverse ).

Now, how can my universe stay a universe while ALSO being infinite-dimensional if by that point, it would’ve become a multiverse?

there are many different ways to reach 5D on this site. a universe can have an extra spatial axis, a universe can have an extra temporal axis, and many others. as far as I know, it's possible in fiction (I'm not sure about the irl logistics of this) to just have a singular universe with infinitely many spatial dimensions, and a temporal dimension that serves exists higher than even that.

I may not be the most knowledgeable on this subject, but I think this answers the question. just have one universe with infinitely many spatial dimensions instead of 3.

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

I started typing then took a nap, my bad.


there are many different ways to reach 5D on this site. a universe can have an extra spatial axis, a universe can have an extra temporal axis, and many others. as far as I know, it's possible in fiction (I'm not sure about the irl logistics of this) to just have a singular universe with infinitely many spatial dimensions, and a temporal dimension that serves exists higher than even that.

I may not be the most knowledgeable on this subject, but I think this answers the question. just have one universe with infinitely many spatial dimensions instead of 3.

Can I bring Wokistan ( an administrator ) into this discussion? Or any knowledgeable scaler? I’m concerned this action will get me in trouble.

Your explanation makes sense. But, what if my universe had 4 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal one? What would that make the universe? A 5D space time? What should I call it?

 

[KingNanaya]

Can I bring Wokistan ( an administrator ) into this discussion? Or any knowledgeable scaler?

sure. you can message him on his wall, I'm sure he won't mind. although, i'm not sure how knowledgable he is on this topic. I'd say the best people to ask are @Deagonx @IdiosyncraticLawyer @PrinceofPein or @DarkGrath . there are others, but these are who I mainly trust with this topic. you can make a message on their wall and ask them about this, and just link them the thread.

I’m concerned this action will get me in trouble.

nah, it won't. everyone is fairly kind and respectful for the most part. you won't get in trouble for talking to admin about questions that you have.

Your explanation makes sense. But, what if my universe had 4 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal one? What would that make the universe? A 5D space time? What should I call it?

yeah, it would be a 5D space time. as for what to call it, scaling wise, it would be what the the tiering system we use calls it, Low Complex Multiversal:

Low 1-C: Low Complex Multiverse level​

Characters or objects that can universally affect, create and/or destroy spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model

In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces

 

[Jaakor48]

New to powerscaling and I learn better with very simple explanations ( feel free to dumb your responses down just don’t be condescending )

In this scenario, let’s say a standard universe is 4-dimensional.
In my cosmology, a universe is infinite-dimensional but
I learned a 5-dimensional space is just a container for 2-infinite, 4 dimensional universes ( a multiverse ).

Now, how can my universe stay a universe while ALSO being infinite-dimensional if by that point, it would’ve become a multiverse?

A universe = structure consisting of one universal space time

Multiverse = space time structure containing 2 or more universal space times

A universe with infinite dimensions means that it CAN contain universes with power cardinals, but if it doesn't, if its just empty, consisting of just its own space time, it's technically a universe, but can easily turn into a multiverse if space times spawn within it

If you destroy that structure, you're only destroying one space time

Scaling wise however, it's termed as a complex multiverse as anyone who can destroy such a structure in it's infinite dimensions an easily destroy infinite multiversal spacetimes of power cardinality

 

[StrymULTRA]

A universe = structure consisting of one universal space time

Multiverse = space time structure containing 2 or more universal space times

That's just the VBW terminology.

"Universe" in its own meaning is simply "all of existence", meaning that in-verse terminology, an universe can also mean what for VBW is a Multiverse or a Tier 1/0 structure.

Basically, this is how Dragon Ball treats it, where a single "universe" in-verse is equivalent to 3 universes here, or how in Ben 10 an "universe" is actually as big as a whole infinite multiverse.

Aka it being called an universe in-verse does not mean anything, authors can make their own definitions of the word, and we should apply those accordingly to what those words mean in-verse.

 

[Jaakor48]

That's just the VBW terminology.

"Universe" in its own meaning is simply "all of existence", meaning that in-verse terminology, an universe can also mean what for VBW is a Multiverse or a Tier 1/0 structure.

Basically, this is how Dragon Ball treats it, where a single "universe" in-verse is equivalent to 3 universes here, or how in Ben 10 an "universe" is actually as big as a whole infinite multiverse.

Aka it being called an universe in-verse does not mean anything, authors can make their own definitions of the word, and we should apply those accordingly to what those words mean in-verse.

Well yea, I know it's vsbw terminology, he was asking as a power scaler so I assumed he was asking how it was tiered on this site specifically

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well yea, I know it's vsbw terminology, he was asking as a power scaler so I assumed he was asking how it was tiered on this site specifically

Damn I did not read the nick name. I thought I was replying to OP.

Now, how can my universe stay a universe while ALSO being infinite-dimensional if by that point, it would’ve become a multiverse?

That's just the VBW terminology.

"Universe" in its own meaning is simply "all of existence", meaning that in-verse terminology, an universe can also mean what for VBW is a Multiverse or a Tier 1/0 structure.

Basically, this is how Dragon Ball treats it, where a single "universe" in-verse is equivalent to 3 universes here, or how in Ben 10 an "universe" is actually as big as a whole infinite multiverse.

Aka it being called an universe in-verse does not mean anything, authors can make their own definitions of the word, and we should apply those accordingly to what those words mean in-verse.

Here

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

sure. you can message him on his wall, I'm sure he won't mind. although, i'm not sure how knowledgable he is on this topic. I'd say the best people to ask are @Deagonx @IdiosyncraticLawyer @PrinceofPein or @DarkGrath . there are others, but these are who I mainly trust with this topic. you can make a message on their wall and ask them about this, and just link them the thread.

nah, it won't. everyone is fairly kind and respectful for the most part. you won't get in trouble for talking to admin about questions that you have.

yeah, it would be a 5D space time. as for what to call it, scaling wise, it would be what the the tiering system we use calls it, Low Complex Multiversal:

Thanks.
A few more questions…
If the 4th dimension is a spatial one in my universe, and not a temporal one…
What would it be described as? If it’s not time, then what could it be?

A universe = structure consisting of one universal space time

Multiverse = space time structure containing 2 or more universal space times

A universe with infinite dimensions means that it CAN contain universes with power cardinals, but if it doesn't, if its just empty, consisting of just its own space time, it's technically a universe, but can easily turn into a multiverse if space times spawn within it

If you destroy that structure, you're only destroying one space time

Scaling wise however, it's termed as a complex multiverse as anyone who can destroy such a structure in it's infinite dimensions an easily destroy infinite multiversal spacetimes of power cardinality

You lost me at “CAN contain universes with power cardinals”. What do power cardinals have to do with infinite-dimensional universes that only have their own spacetime?

 

[KingNanaya]

A few more questions…
If the 4th dimension is a spatial one in my universe, and not a temporal one…
What would it be described as? If it’s not time, then what could it be?

if it's 4D space with no time, then it's just 4D space.

You lost me at “CAN contain universes with power cardinals”. What do power cardinals have to do with infinite-dimensional universes that only have their own spacetime?

at the tiers past High 1-B (high hyperversal), we rate things based on size rather than dimensional gaps. this is subject to change, as there is a massive tiering revision going on, but that won't finish for a while as it's still being debated heavily.

 

[Jaakor48]

Thanks.
A few more questions…
If the 4th dimension is a spatial one in my universe, and not a temporal one…
What would it be described as? If it’s not time, then what could it be?

Just a 4d space with Jo space

You lost me at “CAN contain universes with power cardinals”. What do power cardinals have to do with infinite-dimensional universes that only have their own spacetime?

Sorry, that's a typo, I meant "lower"

 

[Qawsedf234]

In this scenario, let’s say a standard universe is 4-dimensional.
In my cosmology, a universe is infinite-dimensional but
I learned a 5-dimensional space is just a container for 2-infinite, 4 dimensional universes ( a multiverse ).

You're essentially confusing terminology. A geometric dimension is just how you define a point in space. Being three dimensional means you need three points to find the location, fourth dimensional requires four points, fifth dimensional five and so on. An infinite dimensional space is just something with an infinite amount of orthogonal points.

A universe is just whatever is contained within a space-time continuum. Typically that's just a singular 4th dimension space because that's what most cosmologies default to. But you have franchises like Cthulhu where the universe is an infinite dimensional space.

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

if it's 4D space with no time, then it's just 4D space.

at the tiers past High 1-B (high hyperversal), we rate things based on size rather than dimensional gaps. this is subject to change, as there is a massive tiering revision going on, but that won't finish for a while as it's still being debated heavily.

if there are “infinite 4D spacetime continuum universes”, each separated by a 5D space…

What are these 4DSC universes being contained in? A 5-dimensional space?

And what would the name be for this scenario? A 5D spacetime continuum? A 5D space? The 5th temporal dimension? A 5th spatial dimension?

 

[KingNanaya]

if there are “infinite 4D spacetime continuum universes”, each separated by a 5D space…

What are these 4DSC universes being contained in? A 5-dimensional space?

yeah, actually

And what would the name be for this scenario? A 5D spacetime continuum? A 5D space? The 5th temporal dimension? A 5th spatial dimension?

the one I bolded is what it's most commonly called on here

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

yeah, actually

the one I bolded is what it's most commonly called on here

I heard a 5D space can only be one if

“it has its own time flow and supersedes the the smaller continuums”.

So, if a 5D space contained these infinite 4DSC universe,


It would have to have its own temporal dimension?? How would it supersede the smaller continuums?

 

[KingNanaya]

I heard a 5D space can only be one if

“it has its won time flow and supersedes the the smaller continuums”.

So, if a 5D space contained these infinite 4DSC universe,


It would have to have its own temporal dimension?? How would it supersede the smaller continuums?

I can't answer this confidently, so

snip

can you please help answer this?

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

typo. It should say

“it has its OWN time flow and supersedes the smaller continuums”.

So, if a 5D space contained these infinite 4DSC universe,

It would have to have its own temporal dimension?? How would it supersede the smaller continuums?

 

[KingNanaya]

typo.

I knew what you meant lol

 

[Qawsedf234]

can't answer this confidently, so

The OP is confusing Time as a dimensional construct. Time has no dimension, it's just how things are logged and progress in a linear fashion. Plenty of universes equate time with the 4th dimension but it isn't.

To be a fifth dimensional space it just involves having five coordinate spaces. Hypertime is not needed

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

The OP is confusing Time as a dimensional construct. Time has no dimension, it's just how things are logged and progress in a linear fashion. Plenty of universes equate time with the 4th dimension but it isn't.

To be a fifth dimensional space it just involves having five coordinate spaces. Hypertime is not needed

I see. But if my universe has infinite dimensions, all spatial, non temporal,

Would that mean a temporal dimension, greater than infinity ( maybe Aleph-1? ) is containing them?

Or rather, what would be containing an infinite-dimensioned universe?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I see. But if my universe has infinite dimensions, all spatial, non temporal,

Would that mean a temporal dimension, greater than infinity ( maybe Aleph-1? ) is containing them?

If they have a single temporal dimension that operates at the High 1-B scale then the temporal space would be Low 1-A.

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

If they have a single temporal dimension that operates at the High 1-B scale then the temporal space would be Low 1-A.

But isn’t Low 1-A, only classified as such if it’s a space… ( is a structure the same thing as space ?)

with an “aleph one” amount of dimensions?

So, that means the temporal space holding an infinite-dimensioned universe… is an aleph-one dimension?

The hypothetical below is a long one!

And, let’s say, there were an “infinite amount” of infinite-dimensioned universes within the ONE “aleph one” temporal dimension….

Would there be an aleph-one amount of space between the infinite-dimensioned universes?

 

[Qawsedf234]

But isn’t Low 1-A, only classified as such if it’s a space… ( is a structure the same thing as space ?)

The Temporal Dimension would be Low 1-A because it contains an uncountable infinite amount of High 1-B snapshots. But the Space-Time realm would be High 1-B. You would have to erase the conceptual nature of time to get Low 1-A.

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

The Temporal Dimension would be Low 1-A because it contains an uncountable infinite amount of High 1-B snapshots. But the Space-Time realm would be High 1-B. You would have to erase the conceptual nature of time to get Low 1-A.

Do temporal dimensions have different requirements to be considered Low 1-A…compared to spatial dimensions that are Low 1-A?

That would mean there’s 2 ways to reach Low 1-A. Via a temporal dimension way and a spatial dimension way?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Do temporal dimensions have different requirements to be considered Low 1-A…compared to spatial dimensions that are Low 1-A?

No, it's just in this particular situation a temporal axis would include an infinite number of High 1-B snapshots. Which would make the axis Low 1-A.

That would mean there’s 2 ways to reach Low 1-A. Via a temporal dimension way and a spatial dimension way?

No, there's one way to reach Low 1-A and that's containing a power set of infinite dimensions.

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

No, it's just in this particular situation a temporal axis would include an infinite number of High 1-B snapshots. Which would make the axis Low 1-A.


No, there's one way to reach Low 1-A and that's containing a power set of infinite dimensions.

Don’t you mean an “uncountable” infinite snapshots?

“Time is expected to be a continuum: a continuous parameter. This means time is not measured in discrete values: so not only does a timeline encompass infinite seconds, days, and years, but it contains every infinitesimal value in between. This is why a standard timeline is the equivalent of uncountably infinite snapshots of 3-dimensional volume. Time can be infinitely subdivided into infinitesimally small moments, each corresponding to a unique snapshot of the universe, culminating in a scope that can't be represented by an infinite set of real numbers.”

 

[Qawsedf234]

Don’t you mean an “uncountable” infinite snapshots?

Infinity is a set of numbers that infinity progress. An uncountable infinity is an infinite set composed of all infinites. Its a power set of that object, which is why a timeline of a High 1-B Universe would be Low 1-A.

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

Infinity is a set of numbers that infinity progress. An uncountable infinity is an infinite set composed of all infinites. Its a power set of that object, which is why a timeline of a High 1-B Universe would be Low 1-A.

I understand that,
aleph null is a countable infinity.
Aleph-1 is uncountable infinity.

but,
Tier Low 1-A mentions aleph-1.

You keep saying countable infinity. Which should be incorrect.

A countable infinite temporal dimension should not be able to hold an infinite amount of infinite-dimensioned universes.
Only an uncountably infinite temporal dimension would.
The same as how a 4D space would need to be a 5D space to hold infinite 4D-Spacetime continuums.
@Deagonx

Can you correct me if I’m wrong?

 

[Qawsedf234]

You keep saying countable infinity. Which should be incorrect.

I haven't said countable infinity anywhere.

A countable infinite temporal dimension should not be able to hold an infinite amount of infinite-dimensioned universes.

I never said they would. I said if a single time axis supplied a High 1-B realm, that time axis would be Low 1-A. But the space-time of that realm is still only High 1-B.

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

Don’t you mean an “uncountable” infinite snapshots?

“Time is expected to be a continuum: a continuous parameter. This means time is not measured in discrete values: so not only does a timeline encompass infinite seconds, days, and years, but it contains every infinitesimal value in between. This is why a standard timeline is the equivalent of uncountably infinite snapshots of 3-dimensional volume. Time can be infinitely subdivided into infinitesimally small moments, each corresponding to a unique snapshot of the universe, culminating in a scope that can't be represented by an infinite set of real numbers.”

You’re right you didn’t. I must’ve read wrong.

I wanted to clarify this below

No, it's just in this particular situation a temporal axis would include an infinite number of High 1-B snapshots. Which would make the axis Low 1-A.

On comment #25, it says there is an uncountable-infinite amount of snapshots ( I agree with this )

On comment #27, it says an infinite number of snapshots for a high 1-B universe

Can I get a confirmation on which one is true?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Can I get a confirmation on which one is true

The FAQ has it be at uncountable infinity. I just used shorthand for the comment.

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

@Qawsedf234

I’m confused on 5D spaces containing an infinite amount of 4D spacetime continuums (4DSC).

This is my train of thought:
I see these 4DSC as universes for simplicity. But, that must mean all of the collective “universe” needs time to move.
That’s what the 5D space is for.
It acts as a container/temporal dimension for the infinite 4DSC.

In conclusion, the 5D space, is actually called a 5D temporal space?

 

[Qawsedf234]

I’m confused on 5D spaces containing an infinite amount of 4D spacetime continuums (4DSC).

In our system Low 1-C is a universal to infinite sized volume with 5 geometric dimensions. Which is why it can contain infinite 4th Dimensional spaces.

In conclusion, the 5D space, is actually called a 5D temporal space?

No, the fifth dimension exists as a way for multiple 4th Dimensional spaces to seperate themselves as some cosmic background.

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

In our system Low 1-C is a universal to infinite sized volume with 5 geometric dimensions. Which is why it can contain infinite 4th Dimensional spaces.


No, the fifth dimension exists as a way for multiple 4th Dimensional spaces to seperate themselves as some cosmic background.

So, a 5D space containing infinite 4DSC is not the same thing as a 5th spatial dimension and is not a temporal dimension .

In my infinite hierarchy, there would’ve been a 5th spatial dimension.

so, when does a 5th temporal dimension appear? Can you give an example?

 

[Qawsedf234]

so, when does a 5th temporal dimension appear? Can you give an example?

A temporal dimension is just how time progresses. Any franchise where the 5th dimension has time will have a temporal dimension.

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

thanks everyone for their help, this thread can be closed.

 

[KingNanaya]

here is where you can request for it to be closed

 

[MightyFrogBeyond]

here is where you can request for it to be closed

I see.
Can’t I just leave my thread open? i don’t mind