Is Azatoth from Demonbane really Tier 0?

[FTW395]

If I remember correctly Azatoth could not kill Elder God Demonbane, making him not omnipotent. So why is he considered a tier 0 being?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

You should ask DarkLK, because he's most familiar with Demonbane, though I can tell you right now that Azathoth being unable to "kill" EGD is not entirely true, though this has to do with numerous stories and impossibilities that Dark could do a better job explaining.

 

[Jockey-1337]

I'm not a big fan of Demonbane-verse but I found this:

Proof creation is just Azathoth's dream, and not even Azathoth can destroy Demonbane:


Everything is a foam on the waves

Creation is all but a fleeting dream, dreamt by the blind idiot god who is King-of-All as he dozes on the edge of waking

When he wakes, it will end

It will simply vanish, and there will be no one to know or remember it

Or perhaps it simply will have never existed at all

So is the world really nothing more than a fantasy?

But even the god who dreams at the center of the world, the god who created all things, can never, ever destroy it (Demonbane)

 

[DarkLK]

it (Demonbane)

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ðÉ ðæÐâð╣ð¢ Ðéð¥ ÐçðÁð│ð¥? ðæÐâð╣ð¢ - ð¢Ðâð▒ð╗ð¥ ð©ðÀ ð╝ð©ÐÇð║ð░ ðØÐîÐÅ, ð┐ð¥ð╗ÐâÐçð©ð▓ÐêðÁðÁ Ðüð©ð╗Ðâ ð¥Ðé ðÉðÀð© (ð┐ð¥Ðéð¥ð╝Ðâ ÐçÐéð¥ ðÉðÀÐÅ ð©ð┤ð©ð¥Ðé ð║ð░ð║ Ðéð░ð║ ð┐ð¥ð¢ð©ð╝ð░ÐÄ), ð┐ð¥ð╗ÐîðÀÐâðÁÐéÐüÐÅ Ðüð©ð╗ð¥ð╣ ðÉðÀð©, ð¢ð¥ ð┐ÐÇð© ÐìÐéð¥ð╝ ð▓ÐüÐæ ÐÇð░ð▓ð¢ð¥ ð┤ð░ð╝ð░ðÂð©ÐéÐüÐÅ ð┤ÐÇÐâð│ð©ð╝ð© ð▒ð¥ð│ð░ð╝ð©-ð│ÐÇÐæðÀð░ð╝ð© ðÉðÀð©, ð© ð¢ðÁ ð╝ð¥ðÂðÁÐé ð©Ðà ð¥ð║ð¥ð¢Ðçð░ÐéðÁð╗Ðîð¢ð¥ ð▓Ðïð¢ðÁÐüÐéð©, Ðàð¥ÐéÐÅ ð© ð┐ð¥ð▒ðÁðÂð┤ð░ðÁÐé ð┐ð¥ ð¥ð┤ð¢ð¥ð╝Ðâ ð╗ðÁð│ð║ð¥, ð░ ð┐ÐÇð¥Ðéð©ð▓ Ðéð¥ð╗ð┐Ðï Ðü ð¢ðÁð║ð¥Ðéð¥ÐÇÐïð╝ð© ð┐ÐÇðÁð▓ð¥ðÀð╝ð¥ð│ð░ð¢ð©ÐÅð╝ð©.

 

[FTW395]

I'm not a big fan of Demonbane-verse but I found this:
Proof creation is just Azathoth's dream, and not even Azathoth can destroy Demonbane:


Everything is a foam on the waves

Creation is all but a fleeting dream, dreamt by the blind idiot god who is King-of-All as he dozes on the edge of waking

When he wakes, it will end

It will simply vanish, and there will be no one to know or remember it

Or perhaps it simply will have never existed at all

So is the world really nothing more than a fantasy?

But even the god who dreams at the center of the world, the god who created all things, can never, ever destroy it (Demonbane)

Seems to me like that proves he cannot kill Demonbane, which means he's not omnipotent. So not tier 0.

 

[DarkLK]

Tier 0 isn't omnipotent.

And this "it" isnt Demonbane.

 

[FTW395]

Tier 0 isn't omnipotent.
And this "it" isnt Demonbane.

Wow what? Does this mean there should be a tier higher than tier 0?

 

[DarkLK]

This only mean that onipotence is unprovable thing.

 

[Jockey-1337]

"Omnipotence" is a logical blackhole anyway. No one could be omnipotent and all tier-0s are just strong 1-As.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

"True omnipotence" is completely impossible to prove. The best we can "prove" is Tier 0, which is why our highest is "questionable omnipotence". Possibly omnipotent, but impossible to say for sure.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Tier 0 isn't omnipotent.
And this "it" isnt Demonbane.

...

Are we truly going to gloss over the idea that there is a being above Azathoth?

 

[DarkLK]

There is no being above Azathoth. This "it" is the story/world itself.

 

[Naitez]

Let me get this straight. This Azathoth can't kill Elder God Demonbane but Elder God Demonbane can't destroy Azathoth?

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

So...he can destroy the world, yet can never destroy the world?

My gosh, he is omnipotent...


Or this can be some strange interlude where the writers just decided to uncharacteristically note that no matter the power of the characters they can never destroy our imagination...probably too deep for a series with several robots the size of Multiverses...

 

[Naitez]

Or this can be some strange interlude where the writers just decided to uncharacteristically note that no matter the power of the characters they can never destroy our imagination...probably too deep for a series with several robots the size of Multiverses...

Which is dumb because Lovecraft's original entities are above imagination.

 

[DarkLK]

So...he can destroy the world, yet can never destroy the world?

Yep.

This Azathoth can't kill Elder God Demonbane but Elder God Demonbane
EGD is just a some strong god. But it still can be damaged by other gods who are dreams of Azzy and gets power of Azzy just like EGD does.

 

[TheMightyRegulator]

Thanks for answering our questions DarkLK.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

As far as i'm concern. Since everything in Demonbane is Azatoth's dream. He is the only "omnipotent" in Demonbane. Also. I remember a couple of bad ends where Azatoth is awaken and everything goes to shit. So...

 

[DarkLK]

Azathoth never awaken in DMB. He was still asleep entirely a bad ending.