Iron Man Speed Revision.

[XING06]

Edit: Ignore the top stuff - that's been resolved. We are now discussing the speeds of the Mark 1-6 armors and relevant calcs.

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask Spino and Matthew to commment here if you wish.

 

[XING06]

OK yeah. Also, I can't actually find the previous revision thread for the speed so it could just be that someone changed it? Or maybe it was part of another larger thread?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Iron Man has demonstrated to fly at much faster than supersonic speeds, and employ flight in combat and react to obstacles in his way while flying.

 

[The_Everlasting]

"Supersonic" also just means "anything above Mach 1". It doesn't have to automatically translate to Supersonic as the wiki rates it, as I'm sure most verses would consider something like Mach 15 Supersonic as well.

 

[Schnee_One]

This was literally right after I noticed an issue as well.

Iron Man Mark 1-5 have High Hypersonic speed with Backwards Scaling.

I obviously disagree with this as it's blatantly contradicted, if you can even call it a contradiction since supersonic can be anything.

But the speed for Mark 1-5 shouldn't be High Hypersonic.

 

[XING06]

@Everlasting. Oh yeah I knew that already knew that I just meant his top speed. Sorry for the confusion.

@Gargoyle. I actually noticed that too as he had trouble leaving behind the two Raptors. So Mark 1-5 have no demonstrated HHS feats. I actually believe it said somewhere that all Mark 42 and up armors are actually capable of limited orbital flight so at least Mach 23 to Mach 33 even without the calc.

But like I said he has to actively engage his highest flight speeds and while he does employ flight in combat and react to obstacles it's mostly other stuff moving at similar speed or stationary objects (making perception relative) similar to how fighter pilots or even stunt pilots (only subsonic speed) can weave through obastacles and dodge stuff without having that high reactions.

Also even with that, the fastest time he ever fought something at clearly faster than sound flight speeds was with the fighter jets which are Mach 2 so yeah it still wouldn't be HHS but instead Supersonic combat speed like before.

 

[The_Everlasting]

A single screenshot that says "supersonic flight" doesn't tell us anything, much less what you're insinuating it does.

 

[Schnee_One]

Relative speed is a thing, and fighter pilots don't react to supersonic, they count distance, radar, what's ahead of them,

A plane flying in from less then a kilometer away surprises pilots all the time.

Iron Man employs literally none of that and yet he still flies perfectly against other enemies at his speed while making quips

His Mark 1-5 armors shouldn't be High Hypersonic for the reasons I've given however.

 

[XING06]

Well no the screenshot is just to demonstrate how he's generally not supersonic while he's flying/fighting. See Iron Man one, where they made a big deal over him going supersonic, whereas he was cruising at subsonic before.

@Gargoyle.

I'm aware of how fighter pilots work. My point is that Iron Man doesn't fight at that top speed and when he does perform acts at that speed (eg. catching up to the spaceship) the other object is moving at similar speeds making reactions relative similar to pilots facing other planes (where facing slow moving objects is actually more difficult than similar fast Mach capable craft - at least without aiming assist).

I do agree with the Mark 1-5 armors though. The Mark 42 has specifically stronger thrusters.

 

[XING06]

Also even if you disagree which is fine, we still have to rescale combat speed for the Mark 1-5 and the other profiles too as they're all based of Iron Man's flight speed. So we should also talk about that; how do we do that? Just slap on another key?

We should probably also clean up the justifications as it took me a bit to find who they scaled from.

 

[Schnee_One]

While I disagree with this we should probably calc the feat where Iron Man climbs to the altitude where he freezes and use that for 2-5

Mark 1 should be Subsonic IMO, and I'm not even lying.

 

[XING06]

If everyone else is fine with HHS combat speed I'll drop it but I still say the justification is shaky as in most cases of combat and close maneuvering he was actually flying at subsonic speeds. See Iron Man 1 for the beginning of the Raptor fight, the airport fight, and the opening fight in Avengers 2 (only flying around as fast as a truck while fighting) - demonstrating generally lower flight speed during combat.

@Gargoyle

Yeah I actually agree, but how do we get his combat speed in these armors? And how would the others scale? That's the main thing.

 

[Schnee_One]

MK1 doesn't scale at all, M2-5 scale to eachother

 

[XING06]

Ok but I meant how would the other Avengers scale. Are we going to seperate them into another key? Say Pre-42 and After-42? Or Pre-Civil War and Post Civil War? B/c right now we're scaling based on Iron Man's flight speed, so the M2-5 would scale to Avengers 1?

 

[Schnee_One]

Avengers scale to his late armors, they're fine.

 

[XING06]

OK I guess. Then I guess we're done? Should we get the calc group on this? Or are we just going to do it roughly?

 

[Schnee_One]

I mean we can change the topic of the thread.

My MCU CRT is far too crowded to begin a new discussion, and this got settled quickly, so starting here is actually nuch better lol, thx for the convienent thread.

 

[XING06]

Yeah no problem. This was meant for bringing up stuff I wasn't sure about either and that was another issue I was going to bring up.

 

[XING06]

Ok done. So I'd like to bring up that the Mark 6 actually needs something to justify it being HHS as we've so far only got it from the Mark 42 which I believe has more powerful thrusters so again that won't work as justicaition not mention its still backwards scaling.

That's actually why I brought up avengers 1 b/c he was still using the mark 6 and 7.

 

[Antvasima]

Should we close this thread, or is there something left to do here?

 

[Schnee_One]

We're discussing the backwards Scaling that is Iron Nan's speed.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But even in Iron Man One he has feats above Subsonic.

 

[ByAsura]

He dodged a missile in his first suit. Logically all suits should be way superior.

 

[Schnee_One]

He dodged a missile in his first suit. Logically all suits should be way superior.

Pay attention to the scene and he actually missed, not to mention Iron Man attempted to Aim Dodge it.

 

[Schnee_One]

But even in Iron Man One he has feats above Subsonic.

I'm referring to his first suit, his second suit has that altitude climb.

 

[ByAsura]

He didn't seem to aim dodge it, it shows him moving his head after the missile is fired, which we know isn't any sort of cinematic timing because we hear the sound of the missile throughout the scene. The distance he moved is still calcable.

 

[XING06]

Yeah but I'm sure going to be a lower speed than his Mark 42 armor, so we'd still need different speed for his early armors. Like even him dodging the tank shell was calced to be just subsonic? I believe. Also, that's an RPG round not a missile, so it moves at subsonic speeds.

 

[Schnee_One]

After having some attempted calc's by my friend Spino, I agree that Iron Man MK 1-5 should be downgraded to Supersonic.

Both armors are very consistently Supersonic, from outpacing Jets, to flying great heights with relative ease.

Iron Ma 1-5, Whiplash MK1, Iron Monger and War Machine MK1 are the only ones that get downgraded