Irenic's MFTL+ Feat

[WeeklyBattles]

It's not wrong because the staff say so, it's wrong because it goes against logic and common sense

 

[Warren_Valion]

It's not wrong because the staff say so, it's wrong because it goes against logic and common sense

What is illogical about saying that this speed feat, which is never replicated the only moment in game where these character are seen, is either an outlier or an invalid reason to scale the other characters to such insane levels of speed when there are no other feats of similarly weak characters moving at, or around such incredible levels of speeds?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The fact that all of what you just said is based completely on assumptions. There is no reason whatsoever to think that Jubileus is astronomically slower than fodder angels when she is bar none the strongest angel.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

That on top of the fact that Affinity, another fodder angel, is capable of fighting and hitting bayonetta with ranged weapons while theyre riding on top of an Irenic.

 

[Warren_Valion]

The fact that all of what you just said is based completely on assumptions. There is no reason whatsoever to think that Jubileus is astronomically slower than fodder angels when she is bar none the strongest angel.

I never said that.

Quite the oppisite really.

That is why I called Irenic's feat an outlier because the top tiers of the verse are far stronger and logically, far faster, so that a feat that is way above such superior character's speed is in of itself an illogical, so I asked why it wasn't considered an outlier.


Now I've changed my argument from Irenic's feat being an outlier.

Now I'm debating that using his feat to compare the other fodder angels to such incredible speeds, when he has never shown to move even close to his top speed in his only appearance is in my opinion ridiculous.

His (or it?) sole purpose as Matt said eariler is: "Irenic's whole purpose is that it is the Angels' main mean of transportation to traverse Paradiso, which is a Universe."

If the other fodder characters could move at such speeds, then Irenic has no purpose, and so scaling the other characters to such speeds is unfounded, especially since most of it based on Route 666 level of Bayonetta being MFTL+ by scaling to Irenic.


The only characters who should be MFTL+ are top tiers, and Irenic.

 

[Schnee_One]

Dude.

If the other angels are as so much as 1% as fast as Irenic, that's still MFTL+

They don't have to be different categories of speed for them to be much faster then angels.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Dude.
If the other angels are as so much as 1% as fast as Irenic, that's still MFTL+

They don't have to be different categories of speed for them to be much faster then angels.

Dude.

Where are getting that the other angels are at least 1% of Irenic's top speed?


Especially when Irenic's shown in game, he's comparable to normal cars like how normal cars are comparable to humans.

So in point, the other angels have comparable speed to a vastly slower Irenic driving down the highway, not his MFTL+ speed, unless you have a feat or statement that proves otherwise.

If you do, I'd like to see it.

 

[Schnee_One]

Common sense, otherwise, they would not be able to....

1. React to Bayonetta, who's as fast as Irenic.

2. Stand on top of Irenic and be completely fine.

3. Fight Bayonetta, who's at least as fast as Irenic.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You do know that Irenic general speed doesn't scale to the other angels general speed right? It just scales to combat speed and reactions, not their movement speed.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

>Irenic is as fast as normal cars

Okay now you're slipping into trolling territory

 

[Warren_Valion]

Common sense, otherwise, they would not be able to....
1. React to Bayonetta, who's as fast as Irenic.

2. Stand on top of Irenic and be completely fine.

3. Fight Bayonetta, who's at least as fast as Irenic.

That's to an Irenic whose comparable to regular cars.

Not to Irenic when he's moving at what? Quadrillions of times faster than the speed of light.

 

[Js250476]

I dunno cars can be pretty fast have you seen big rigs? OvO

 

[Schnee_One]

Are you ******* kidding me?

Like, are you seriously considering Irenic being comparable to normal cars or are you looking for a closed thread?

 

[Warren_Valion]

You do know that Irenic general speed doesn't scale to the other angels general speed right? It just scales to combat speed and reactions, not their movement speed.

How would I know that when their profiles have no distinction between reaction or movement speed.? It just says Speed.

And again, like I said above, that's to a Irenic whose comparable (but definitely quite a bit faster) to normal cars, not Irenic when he's making light envious at his speed.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Because generally when they're still a speed rating it's referring to combat speed

No, just no.

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Gargoyle One and WeeklyBattles

Did you two even play this game and did you not click on the link I provided on the scene?

Here is the link again: https://youtu.be/-cxesLLfolo?t=2m16s

Irenic, as well as Bayonetta, are driving down the road, and other cars around them are still moving around even though they're supposed to be moving at MFTL+ speeds. The only conclusion is that Irenic, if his MFTL+ speed feat is not an outlier, is slowing himself down to match Bayonetta and attack her, as well as letting the other angels attack Bayonetta.

 

[Schnee_One]

Only played 1 sadly, albeit dozens of times.

And just because we can see them does not mean they're moving at the same speed, I guesss I'm MHS+ because I can perceive lightning.

Yo Weekly, can ya close this now?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Because generally when they're still a speed rating it's referring to combat speed
No, just no.

Again, how would I know that?


And stop acting like you're God.

You are Human, and I am as well, and in a debate you need some sort of evidence for disproving someone else's statements.

Not just you saying "no".


Especially when I have a link to the point in the game, where you fight the enemy and every other character is scaled up from this moment, and in this moment the other cars around you are normal cars, and are moving at comparable speeds. Logic would dictate that Irenic was holding back his true speed tremendously.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Only played 1 sadly, albeit dozens of times.
And just because we can see them does not mean they're moving at the same speed, I guesss I'm MHS+ because I can perceive lightning.

Yo Weekly, can ya close this now?

It's not them perceiving the cars moving due to their movement.

It that the cars are moving in their perception.

If you parallel to the lightning and moving in comparable speeds, then yes you would move at MHS+ speeds as you are outracing, but still comparable to the lightning.

 

[Dienomite22]

He kinda has a point, the cars shouldn't be moving at comparable speeds if the Irenics and Bayo are moving at MFTL+ speeds.But regardless of that Gargoyle you seem to be close hungry, the guy is making some fair points so far so we should let him make them and counter them but if he starts to repeat already debunked points then the thread should be closed.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Warren

We're not going from in-game, we're going from Lore. In the Hierarchy of Laguna it states:

"If humans were truly able to see Angels, they would never expect an Angel to appear as an automobile. However, it goes without saying that Irenic has existed since long before even the concept of history; Irenic is charged with spreading the message of Divine Will across Paradiso, and is most commonly depicted as a boxy form with four wheels capable of achieving great speeds. Faster than even the wind, it can cross Paradiso, thousands of times larger than the human world, in nary a single day. Irenic is first known to have appeared before humanity in the mid-18th century, coinciding with the start of the Industrial Revolution and the development of the first steam-powered automobiles"

It can cross a realm several thousand times larger than the entirety of the Human World (which is the entire plane of reality that the majority of humanity lives in, thus the entire universe) in less than a day.

To say that it's only as fast as the car would be ignoring the actual lore of the game itself.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

If you honestly think that slower than cars Bayonetta is a thing, you are ignoring literally every speed feat in the series.

Also in the second bike level, you catch up to a speeding space rocket, so those bikes are clearly faster than real cars and so is Irenic.

But I am still unconvinced about 4-C.

 

[Golden_Void]

Basically it's a similar concept as shown in Greek Mythology. Hermes, the messenger of the gods, had sandals that provided him with speed. Doesn't mean that Zeus can't blitz him.

Basically you're arguing with game mechanics. I can pop in Xenoverse 2 right now and play as Hit, who is MFTL by feats, but in game it takes me a whole ten seconds to fly across ten city blocks.

 

[Js250476]

Bayo doges bullets to so even the bit feats are faster then cars

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Reppuza

Did you read what I wrote?


I said that Irenic at his best as described by the lore of the game is MFTL+, I'm not arguing that anymore.

But I also said that when you face Irenic on Route 666, the moment in which every character speed is scaled from, you are in fact facing a Irenic who is slowing down his speed ridiculously as there are cars moving in Bayonetta's perception, which is impossible if she was moving at MFTL+ speeds.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Warren

Why would an Angel that's looking to kill Bayonetta slow down? In addition, if Irenic was so much faster than Bayonetta, then it would have just run over her a billion times over rather than commit to a fight.

The cars in the scene are just there to act as obstacles and fill up background so you're not just fighting on an empty road.

 

[Golden_Void]

Arguing game mechanics :^)

 

[Reppuzan]

@Gargoyle

We don't need that kind of response. Even if we disagree, he's entitled to give his own arguments.

 

[Dienomite22]

Before this gets shut down, can someone give me the reasoning for this scaling to Bayo's movement speed?

 

[Schnee_One]

Done, I apologize

 

[Reppuzan]

@Dienomite22

She can keep up with it after amping a regular bike with her magical power. Why else?

She also fought Jubileus, who should be logically superior to Irenic, while on foot.

 

[Warren_Valion]

To fight her.

And if you say that the cars are just there for game purposes, then I can say the same thing for Irenic. He's just there for Bayonetta to fight something on the route.

Hell, in the Bayonetta Wiki's trivia section it states that the whole reason for Irenic's existence is to give Bayonetta a fight.

"Originally, Bayonetta was not to face a single enemy while riding her motorcycle on Route 666. Irenic was added at the last minute at Hideki Kamiya's request, however, as he felt an enemy encounter during Chapter VIII was intact necessary."

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Do you not notice that this is the same logic that can be used to downgrade literally all of fiction? Because you're trying to downgrade her to like, car speed based on stuff like "she doesn't appear that fast". I won't go as far as list example, but that logic won't work here.

 

[Dienomite22]

@Reppuzan I can see the reasoning but can't agree with it yet.Why would Bayo grab a bike and boost it with her magical powers if she can fly and use her magical power to be just as fast? And what I got from the scene when I played was that she was just magically hotwiring the bike since she lacked a key not that she enhanced it.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Warren

Again, why would an Angel that could logically steer itself across the entirety of a realm several thousand times larger than the universe slow down to the speed of a regular car to fight Bayonetta when its mission would allow it to simply run her over?

We honestly don't care for author intent. If it's in the lore, it's in the lore.

Even if Irenic was just placed there to occupy the player, it's still a feat, that's not debatable.

Ignoring the content of the Irenic fight, Bayonetta still fought Jubileus, who can clearly cross cosmic distances in an instant. Thus, Bayonetta would logically scale.

Also, at the speed Irenic is stated to be capable of in the lore, even moving 0.00000000000000000001% of its top speed would still put it well into the realm of Massively FTL+. Put that into perspective.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Dienomite

Rule of cool.

Why does Superboy ride in Robin's Robin-copter when he can fly? For laughs.

Why does Simon the Digger bother with Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagan if his Spiral Power makes him just as strong as it? Because it's cool.

Also, what Saikou said.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Do you not notice that this is the same logic that can be used to downgrade literally all of fiction? Because you're trying to downgrade her to like, car speed based on stuff like "she doesn't appear that fast". I won't go as far as list example, but that logic won't work here.

I'm downgrading Bayonetta's speed because logic would dictate that the current system of scaling the speed for these characters is inaccurate.


And other examples of someone saying that "she doesn't appear that fast" is rendered moot with multiple feats justifying that tier, or speed, there are no such feats that Bayonetta scales to.

Even the other MFTL+ feat in Bayonetta, Jubileus being punched across the solar system isn't scaleable to Bayonetta because Jubileus never moved her body to chase you in that fight. She attack you with her weird hair armor strands. Which is combat speed, not travel speed.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You're excepting a character to always show their greatest speed at all times when they fight, which is nonsensical to expect from...pretty much any character ever, especially speed-wise. Hell most characters only have their greatest speed shown once. Bayonetta is far from the only case. We won't make an exception for her under the excuse of "but she is slow compared to cars", which happens to literally any games with cars.

 

[Warren_Valion]

@Reppuzan I can see the reasoning but can't agree with it yet.Why would Bayo grab a bike and boost it with her magical powers if she can fly and use her magical power to be just as fast? And what I got from the scene when I played was that she was just magically hotwiring the bike since she lacked a key not that she enhanced it.

This is an excellent point that I didn't think of. If she could move so fast, why did she take the motorcycle? It's pointless, especially since she's at a disadvantage with fighting on a motorcycle.

Though I do think she empowered it as there is magic seemingly flowing from the bike.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Warren

Because it's cool.

Why does Wonder Woman have an invisible plane when she can fly as fast as Superman?

Why do the Uchiha use anything but their trademark genjutsu?

It's impossible to expect things to play out the exact same way every single time because writing doesn't work like that.