[Invincible] The Infamous Sun Disk

[GodlyCharmander]

Wow, nevermind, quite the clever way to get the Sun Disk's size, it has basically no contradictions, and all the logic is consistent. The amount of assumptions made were reasonable enough.


I would include at least some corrections because the screenshot used has the disk at an angle, not facing directly the camera, it matters because it's a disk, and not a sphere like the star.
It's a minor adjustment, but we can use the cosine law to compensate for the angle, assuming a low angle of 15° since they are so close together.

I could try it.

Here:

Law of Cosines states that c2 = a2 + b2 - 2ab·cosC

Point A: Disk
Point B: Screen
Point C: Sun

c = Distance from the Disk to the screen (AB)
b = Distance between the Disk and the Sun (AC)
a = Distance between the Sun and the Screen. (BC)

CosC = angle between the lines from the sun and the two other points. Assumed 15°

c^2 = a^2 + b^2 - 2ab·cosC

c^2 = 9967693387.91^2 + 1350993153.4^2 - 2*9967693387.91*1350993153.4^2*cos15deg = 7.5165228e+19

c = sqrt7.5165228e+19 = 8669788232.71m

Slightly higher. Since it's not facing directly at us.

The angle could be completely wrong, a higher angle would yield a higher result. (Around 9 bil). I can see argument for 20-30°, I am eyeballing quite a bit.

For reference, that makes for a 1020171653.72m diameter, and a

(1020171653.72/1013924803.23)^5*9.6800782e+37J = 9.981973e+37J or 24.23 Ronnatons. Barely a difference. Lmao. I just wasted my time.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Wouldn't the final result that Viltrumites scale to need to be divided by two, since it was done with two missiles?

 

[Robo432343]

what do you guys think of this calc

 

[Theglassman12]

@FuriousFieryFist We don’t know if those missiles are stronger than a viltrumite, and even then the Solar Disk is predominantly a supporting feat to the main one every Viltrumite would scale to, which is Nolan moving an entire planet.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

@FuriousFieryFist We don’t know if those missiles are stronger than a viltrumite, and even then the Solar Disk is predominantly a supporting feat to the main one every Viltrumite would scale to, which is Nolan moving an entire planet.

I apologize for semi larping, but I don't remember them saying or implying Nolan did this on his own. In some adventures, he had a crew with him.

 

[Tahoy49574]

I apologize for semi larping, but I don't remember them saying or implying Nolan did this on his own. In some adventures, he had a crew with him.

Here

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Here

Dang. Why is bro so angry Superman beats his character.

Anyway, yeah. Do we got a timeframe on that?

 

[Tahoy49574]

Dang. Why is bro so angry Superman beats his character.

Anyway, yeah. Do we got a timeframe on that?

Not really, but given he's obviously comparing it to that infamous scan of Superman pulling multiple planets with some chains, it couldn't have been terribly long

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Not really, but given he's obviously comparing it to that infamous scan of Superman pulling multiple planets with some chains, it couldn't have been terribly long

That would taking his ragebait too literally, imo. We can't reliably use that for a timeframe.

Is the comic planet busting feat happening this season?

 

[Tahoy49574]

That would taking his ragebait too literally, imo. We can't reliably use that for a timeframe.

Is the comic planet busting feat happening this season?

Yes. God, that discussion is going to be exhausting

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Yes. God, that discussion is going to be exhausting

Might be a reference to that too. And yes, it is. Lol

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

@FuriousFieryFist We don’t know if those missiles are stronger than a viltrumite, and even then the Solar Disk is predominantly a supporting feat to the main one every Viltrumite would scale to, which is Nolan moving an entire planet.

I was under the impression that this was being used to scale viltrimites. I actually agree with them not scaling to it, so this doesn't really bother me.

 

[FusionPrime0]

That would taking his ragebait too literally, imo. We can't reliably use that for a timeframe.

The planet is inhabited by creatures Nolan considers strong enough to give a Viltrumite a close fight and we see him hovering above the creatures as they just start to get affected by the planet being moved as well. I think it should be less than a day, and it's currently accepted with a 1 hour timeframe. We're def not using the Superman panel for a timeframe lol.

 

[Tahoy49574]

We're def not using the Superman panel for a timeframe lol.

I'm mentioning that as a point of reference

Mainly because I've seen people suggest insanely long timeframes

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The planet is inhabited by creatures Nolan considers strong enough to give a Viltrumite a close fight and we see him hovering above the creatures as they just start to get affected by the planet being moved as well. I think it should be less than a day, and it's currently accepted with a 1 hour timeframe. We're def not using the Superman panel for a timeframe lol.

I think a day is reasonable. Could be less or more, if they did it in chunks of tim

 

[Reyne]

I was under the impression that this was being used to scale viltrimites. I actually agree with them not scaling to it, so this doesn't really bother me.

The easiest thing to do is look at the epicenter of the explosion, see that it isn't at either of the initial hits, and determine that however this solar disk functions, it holds a lot of power. The two smaller explosions, aka the points that can 100% be attributed to the missiles and do not stretch our understanding of this universe and how powerful everyone's technology is.

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[Rogue_Forge]

The sun disk? thats my favorite feat!

 

[Rogue_Forge]

Anyways, agree

 

[Hellbeast]

What I’m hearing here is High 5-A is viable, we’re just arguing the degree?

 

[GodlyCharmander]

What I’m hearing here is High 5-A is viable, we’re just arguing the degree?

I'd argue the feat is not associated with the missiles, actually.

Can I argue AGAINST using the feat and the calc at all here?

 

[Zyurtunder13]

I'd argue the feat is not associated with the missiles, actually.

Can I argue AGAINST using the feat and the calc at all here?

If you have a reasonable reason of why

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If you have a reasonable reason of why

The missiles generate two localized explosions that are miniscule compared to the explosion of the Disk soon after. That tells us that the missiles only caused the internal systems of the disk to reach critical levels and explode on their own.

Aka, I'm arguing a cascade effect.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

If that's the case (and it does seem to be the case) then the whole feat is bunk then. It's funny though that viltrumites seem to build their spacecraft and structures exclusively out of nitroglycerin.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If that's the case (and it does seem to be the case) then the whole feat is bunk then. It's funny though that viltrumites seem to build their spacecraft and structures exclusively out of nitroglycerin.

Lmao. The energy system to keep something that big floating can't possibly be stable tbh.

 

[Apeironaxim]

The missiles generate two localized explosions that are miniscule compared to the explosion of the Disk soon after. That tells us that the missiles only caused the internal systems of the disk to reach critical levels and explode on their own.

Aka, I'm arguing a cascade effect.

You can also see in like, a handful of frames before the whole disk blows up that a 3rd explosion pops up kinda in-between the explosions from where we see the missiles land, which considering they fired only 2 missiles, means that yeah, other stuff started exploding/failing inside it

 

[GodlyCharmander]

You can also see in like, a handful of frames before the whole disk blows up that a 3rd explosion pops up kinda in-between the explosions from where we see the missiles land, which considering they fired only 2 missiles, means that yeah, other stuff started exploding/failing inside it

We definitely shouldn't use this then. The Nolan feat is also questionable, it could've taken any given amount of time, nothing indicates he did it in one go too, he could've done it in shifts too.

We can probably just get the size of the missile's explosions individually since it should still dwarf a planet.

 

[Apeironaxim]

We definitely shouldn't use this then. The Nolan feat is also questionable, it could've taken any given amount of time, nothing indicates he did it in one go too, he could've done it in shifts too.

I personally dont like the Nolan "feat" because he literally uses viltrum's help to deal with another planet-wide species threat (building the sun disk), so the assumption he moved the whole planet by himself, let alone without using any tech, is just incredibly off to me. But yes even if you insisted that for some reason Nolan decided not to use any tech or employ any help in any manner, the fact it's an unknown timeframe also doesnt help things

 

[GodlyCharmander]

I personally dont like the Nolan "feat" because he literally uses viltrum's help to deal with another planet-wide species threat (building the sun disk), so the assumption he moved the whole planet by himself, let alone without using any tech, is just incredibly off to me. But yes even if you insisted that for some reason Nolan decided not to use any tech or employ any help in any manner, the fact it's an unknown timeframe also doesnt help things

Unfortunately, everything points out to him doing it himself with no aid, according to the show and the author himself. If it's an outlier, then it's an outlier.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Unfortunately, everything points out to him doing it himself with no aid, according to the show and the author himself. If it's an outlier, then it's an outlier.

Well even if you decide to take it face value, the fact it has an unknown time frame on a task that iirc Nolan isnt exactly super pressed for time on might make it uncalcable regardless. Hard to be an outlier if there's just no reasonable assumption you can make for a calc in the first place due to a lack of information. But maybe im wrong and there's some kind of baseline assumption you can make. Calc people can figure that one out

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Well even if you decide to take it face value, the fact it has an unknown time frame on a task that iirc Nolan isnt exactly super pressed for time on might make it uncalcable regardless. Hard to be an outlier if there's just no reasonable assumption you can make for a calc in the first place due to a lack of information. But maybe im wrong and there's some kind of baseline assumption you can make. Calc people can figure that one out

They're arguing since the Author is comparing it to a Superman feat that was relatively quick, it shouldn't take too long, otherwise the comparison is void.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

I personally dont like the Nolan "feat" because he literally uses viltrum's help to deal with another planet-wide species threat (building the sun disk), so the assumption he moved the whole planet by himself, let alone without using any tech, is just incredibly off to me. But yes even if you insisted that for some reason Nolan decided not to use any tech or employ any help in any manner, the fact it's an unknown timeframe also doesnt help things

Unfortunately, everything points out to him doing it himself with no aid, according to the show and the author himself. If it's an outlier, then it's an outlier.

A new calc was made that used a different method that doesn't rely on any timeframes and got a result much more consistent with other calculations. The viltrum bust in the show is also way more impressive with planet level values off the bat, so it shouldn't really shouldnt be considered an outlier now.

 

[Apeironaxim]

A new calc was made that used a different method that doesn't rely on any timeframes and got a result much more consistent with other calculations. The viltrum bust in the show is also way more impressive with planet level values off the bat, so it shouldn't really shouldnt be considered an outlier now.

It seems Charmander expressed some reasonable critique with that calc's assumption of pushing it outside of the entire golidlocks zone, so we'll see how it shapes up if a recalc is needed I suppose. The Viltrum feat is also odd because the gun is shown to destabilize things to the point they can either explode or break apart on their own, so I suppose if one were dedicated they could argue there's too much doubt in how much destruction was helped along/cause by space racer's gun, but that's probably being slightly too conservative. The goldilocks comment however does seem a reasonable issue to raise though if Im reading it right

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

It seems Charmander expressed some reasonable critique with that calc's assumption of pushing it outside of the entire golidlocks zone, so we'll see how it shapes up if a recalc is needed I suppose. The Viltrum feat is also odd because the gun is shown to destabilize things to the point they can either explode or break apart on their own, so I suppose if one were dedicated they could argue there's too much doubt in how much destruction was helped along/cause by space racer's gun, but that's probably being slightly too conservative. The goldilocks comment however does seem a reasonable issue to raise though if Im reading it right

The gun issue has already been addressed as it actually doesn't destabilize anything, but instead hits critical components inside ships causing them to explode. The same thing happened when invincible plowed through the viltrumite ship. Every other showing of it penetrating objects and viltrumites has always shown it piercing through like a beam of pure energy. But I'm not here to debate that, the only reason I brought up the calculation was to show there was a way to calculate the feat without assuming a timeframe and that it wasn't in outlier territory. I'll use a more recent estimate for the habitable zone and complete the calculation here.

2013 Estimate says that 0.95 au is close enough to evaporate all liquid water.

Distance of Non-habitable limit from the sun: 0.95 au or 142117143 km
Circular Orbital Velocity (Earth): √(1.327e11/149597870.700) = 29.78 km/s
Circular Orbital Velocity (Non-habitable Limit): √(1.327e11/142117143) = 30.56 km/s
Delta-V: 30.56 - 29.78 = 0.78 km/s
Kinetic Energy: (1/2) x 5.9722e24 x 780^2 = 1.81674324e30 joules or 434.21 exatons (Low 5-B)

 

[GodlyCharmander]

A new calc was made that used a different method that doesn't rely on any timeframes and got a result much more consistent with other calculations. The viltrum bust in the show is also way more impressive with planet level values off the bat, so it shouldn't really shouldnt be considered an outlier now.

I commented on it, it's wrong.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The gun issue has already been addressed as it actually doesn't destabilize anything, but instead hits critical components inside ships causing them to explode. The same thing happened when invincible plowed through the viltrumite ship. Every other showing of it penetrating objects and viltrumites has always shown it piercing through like a beam of pure energy. But I'm not here to debate that, the only reason I brought up the calculation was to show there was a way to calculate the feat without assuming a timeframe and that it wasn't in outlier territory. I'll use a more recent estimate for the habitable zone and complete the calculation here.

2013 Estimate says that 0.95 au is close enough to evaporate all liquid water.

Distance of Non-habitable limit from the sun: 0.95 au or 142117143 km
Circular Orbital Velocity (Earth): √(1.327e11/149597870.700) = 29.78 km/s
Circular Orbital Velocity (Non-habitable Limit): √(1.327e11/142117143) = 30.56 km/s
Delta-V: 30.56 - 29.78 = 0.78 km/s
Kinetic Energy: (1/2) x 5.9722e24 x 780^2 = 1.81674324e30 joules or 434.21 exatons (Low 5-B)

Like the original calc, it subtracts the two circular orbital velocities to get delta-V.

This is not how Hohmann transfers work. The correct approach uses the vis-viva equation to find the velocity at each endpoint of the elliptical transfer orbit, then deltas from the circular velocities at each point.

With semi-major axis of the transfer ellipse a = (1 + 0.95) / 2 = 0.975 AU or 145857924 kilometers

V (aph) = sqrt (μ ( (2/r1) - (1/a) ) )

μ = Gravitational Parametre of the Sun or 1.327e11 km^3/s^2
r1 = Sun's distance from Earth = 149597870.700km
a = semi-major axis of the transfer ellipse = 145857924 kilometers

V (aph) = sqrt (1.327e11 ( (2/149597870.700) - (1/145857924) ) ) = 29.3989792km/s
ΔV1 = 29.783-29.3989792 = 0.3840208km/s

Assuming only acceleration from Nolan's end, and not deceleration, because why would he, this is the speed.

KE = (1/2) x 5.9722e24 x 384^2 = 4.40318362e29 Joules or 105.23 Exatons of TNT (Moon level)

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Like the original calc, it subtracts the two circular orbital velocities to get delta-V.

This is not how Hohmann transfers work. The correct approach uses the vis-viva equation to find the velocity at each endpoint of the elliptical transfer orbit, then deltas from the circular velocities at each point.

With semi-major axis of the transfer ellipse a = (1 + 0.95) / 2 = 0.975 AU or 145857924 kilometers

V (aph) = sqrt (μ ( (2/r1) - (1/a) ) )

μ = Gravitational Parametre of the Sun or 1.327e11 km^3/s^2
r1 = Sun's distance from Earth = 149597870.700km
a = semi-major axis of the transfer ellipse = 145857924 kilometers

V (aph) = sqrt (1.327e11 ( (2/149597870.700) - (1/145857924) ) ) = 29.3989792km/s
ΔV1 = 29.783-29.3989792 = 0.3840208km/s

Assuming only acceleration from Nolan's end, and not deceleration, because why would he, this is the speed.

KE = (1/2) x 5.9722e24 x 384^2 = 4.40318362e29 Joules or 105.23 Exatons of TNT (Moon level)

Yeah, I basically just copied the math from the calculation, shows what I know. Regardless, this just goes to show my point that the planet moving feat is not an outlier, especially factoring in that both High 6-A feats most characters scale to was extremely casual.

 

[Hellbeast]

Well even if you decide to take it face value, the fact it has an unknown time frame on a task that iirc Nolan isnt exactly super pressed for time on might make it uncalcable regardless. Hard to be an outlier if there's just no reasonable assumption you can make for a calc in the first place due to a lack of information. But maybe im wrong and there's some kind of baseline assumption you can make. Calc people can figure that one out

Iirc we’ve already accepted a timeframe as presented in the calculation