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Invincible (Image Comics) top-tiers upgrade

Eficiente

Eficiente

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VS Battles
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I was reading this verse in chronological order and found a potential feat above the stats of the top-tier characters.

The feat needs to be calc'd. I'm confident on the numbers it will bring. I'm not so confident on the veracity of the feat though, but only slightly. Fictional tech blows up all the time, after all. I believe that using the feat as a "Likely" is appropriate, I think "Possibly" is overkill, but I wouldn't oppose it.

Now then, a good thing about the feat is how it doesn't go against the anti-feats in the series. Even if somehow calc'd at Star level, the explosion is clearly way smaller than the sun, so a weapon only said to destroy stars can reasonably be seen as causing more damage. Tech Jacket's ability to grow stronger is also all hype with no substance to mean much of anything.

Furthermore, I'm certain even the low-end take on the feat blows out of the water the other LS feat Tech Jacket has.

---

Also at one point in the letters to the readers one asks what would happen if a zombie bit Mark and the author said that nothing. So there is that.
 
Shouldn't this go in Calculation Request ?

It's also been calculated two times already, but none approved
 
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Mm, I tried to look into most places for anyone calc'ing the feat already, no threads seemed to talk about it.
 
Can you add a low-end interpretation in which the ship is not thrown to the sun, giving AP and LS? Simply assuming the ship was thrown to the sun is understandable, I can see a number of reasonable people doing the same, however a more objective view on the feat should very much allow the possibility of that not being the case.
 
Eficiente said:
Can you add a low-end interpretation in which the ship is not thrown to the sun, giving AP and LS? Simply assuming the ship was thrown to the sun is understandable, I can see a number of reasonable people doing the same, however a more objective view on the feat should very much allow the possibility of that not being the case.
Click to expand...
How would one go about doing that? Since apparently it could’ve somehow just been a spontaneous explosion (nonsense imo), there’s no way to gauge the size of the explosion (it doesn’t even look like an explosion) to know the distance thrown before it exploded.
 
ReturnofKhadz said:
How would one go about doing that? Since apparently it could’ve somehow just been a spontaneous explosion (nonsense imo), there’s no way to gauge the size of the explosion (it doesn’t even look like an explosion) to know the distance thrown before it exploded.
Click to expand...
Calc'ing the ship being thrown that far away, not the explosion. The explosion would come from the ship itself being damaged.
Eficiente said:
Also at one point in the letters to the readers one asks what would happen if a zombie bit Mark and the author said that nothing. So there is that.
Click to expand...
I misremembered it a bit, but I propose the following:
 
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Eficiente said:
On Tech Jacket's profile: "Apparently threw a building-sized Kresh ship into the sun from Earth's atmosphere, causing an explosion visible from the sun's surface (Tech Jacket (2002) issue 6). This is assuming the ship didn't blow up on its own before reaching the sun, with a closer, far smaller explosion.
Click to expand...
That just looks like the ship burning up & exploding as it approaches the sun rather than actually causing an explosion larger than earth on the sun itself, seeing as that's the more likely situation given the perspective were viewing it from (In the same way before reaching closer to the sun the ship itself would look larger than earth in perspective) + there's a lack of anything that would indicate it has the explosive power on that level.
 
Eficiente said:
I misremembered it a bit, but I propose the following:
Click to expand...
It might just mean blood does not transmit the zombie virus under his rules.
 
Cropfist said:
It might just mean blood does not transmit the zombie virus under his rules.
Click to expand...
can't TWD zombies infect through their fluids ?

Also, does this thread still need to be up ? The feat doesn't upgrade the verse at all
 
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Cropfist said:
It might just mean blood does not transmit the zombie virus under his rules.
Click to expand...
Could be. The point is that the possibility of that not being the case is there within reason.
 
Eficiente said:
Calc'ing the ship being thrown that far away, not he explosion. The explosion would come from the ship itself being damaged.
Click to expand...
Reread what I said. It addresses why this is impossible to ascertain. A ship exploding from heat of the Sun would need to be quite close, and the size of the explosion would suggest it's planet+ sized if that were true.
 
ReturnofKhadz said:
Reread what I said. It addresses why this is impossible to ascertain. A ship exploding from heat of the Sun would need to be quite close, and the size of the explosion would suggest it's planet+ sized if that were true.
Click to expand...
I know what you said. I maintain that in a low-end, the ship blew up after being thrown, what, hundreds or thousands of kilometers. Not close to the sun. I know this is nonsense to you, but we don't know the tech inside the ship; it was forcely dragged from Earth surface and tossed away, maybe the failed resistance put into that caused the explosion. That's just a longer way to word "fictional tech blows up for unknown reasons when getting damaged."

For the record, I admit the interpretation of the ship not reaching the sun grew on me. Still, I see it as a possible interpretation (Possibly). It very much could be what the creators were going for showing those images like that, I maintain that accepting that possibility should be reasonable. I might do the same in their shoes, not much to say about the topic.
 
it was forcely dragged from Earth surface and tossed away, maybe the failed resistance put into that caused the explosion
Click to expand...
A ship capable of traveling at FTL speeds gets messed up by being launched at FTL speeds ? And again, Kresh ships' explosions weren't that big
Eficiente said:
Still, I see it as a possible interpretation (Possibly). It very much could be what the creators were going for showing those images like that, I maintain that accepting that possibility should be reasonable. I might do the same in their shoes, not much to say about the topic.
Click to expand...
Why are you so cautious about the feat lol, there wouldn't even be a problem if it upgrades their LS a lot given they greatly upscale the value in their profiles

It could slightly bump AP if we go by a 5 second high-end for the explosion, which I still stand for because it's portrayed as a quick motion that takes place in one panel
 
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Tahoy49574 said:
A ship capable of traveling at FTL speeds gets messed up by being launched at FTL speeds ?
Click to expand...
When anything is forcely dragged, they put a level of resistance to it, which can harm them. A sentient being may give up if they can't break free, a machine may do its best to avoid the situation, which may break or overload it. Especially added to any damage the tough process may inflict; it was tackled by a powerful enemy, and moved not bc of all its systems all across the ship in a standard way, but dragged by 1 human-sized point in the whole ship.

Saying "A ship capable of traveling at FTL speeds gets messed up by being launched at FTL speeds ?" is like saying that an athlete capable of moving really fast broke their bones being carried by a super ant dragging them across 1 tiny part of their body, moving really fast.
Tahoy49574 said:
And again, Kresh ships' explosions weren't that big
Click to expand...
I know you said that. The argument is ok but I don't feel very strong about it, just bc those explosions were smaller doesn't mean the ship blowing up again here would need to be a similar-sized explosion. What caused the explosions across those different instances could be different, we don't know. Showing evidence of something being the case doesn't just mean it will always be the case that way, unless strong logic backs it up.
 
Eficiente said:
When anything is forcely dragged, they put a level of resistance to it, which can harm them. A sentient being may give up if they can't break free, a machine may do its best to avoid the situation, which may break or overload it. Especially added to any damage the tough process may inflict; it was tackled by a powerful enemy, and moved not bc of all its systems all across the ship in a standard way, but dragged by 1 human-sized point in the whole ship.

Saying "A ship capable of traveling at FTL speeds gets messed up by being launched at FTL speeds ?" is like saying that an athlete capable of moving really fast broke their bones being carried by a super ant dragging them across 1 tiny part of their body, moving really fast.

I know you said that. The argument is ok but I don't feel very strong about it, just bc those explosions were smaller doesn't mean the ship blowing up again here would need to be a similar-sized explosion. What caused the explosions across those different instances could be different, we don't know. Showing evidence of something being the case doesn't just mean it will always be the case that way, unless strong logic backs it up.
Click to expand...
This thread should really be closed then

You're not having any of the ship being anywhere close to the sun but at the same time a "lower interpretation" calc isn't feasible either
 
I'm pretty sure this feat did get calced, and it's still just Low 5-B, consistent with the tiering we already have.
 
Hellbeast said:
Wouldn’t this be some form of corruption as well?
Click to expand...
Well, Corruption is something of a redundant ability that mixes in other abilities; A zombie is not a target made more evil, it's some biological infection that causes targets to act in an animal-like state, and they just so happen to do evil to survive.

Some verses may have zombies be zombies bc they're evil, sure, but that's not standard.
Tahoy49574 said:
You're not having any of the ship being anywhere close to the sun but at the same time a "lower interpretation" calc isn't feasible either
Click to expand...
I don't think the wording is good. What is your issue with the lower interpretation and higher interpretation, respectively? Can you elaborate on those better?
 
Eficiente said:
I don't think the wording is good. What is your issue with the lower interpretation and higher interpretation, respectively? Can you elaborate on those better?
Click to expand...
I have no issue with the higher interpretation(the ship exploded on the sun), you're the one who doesn't believe in it, and ReturnofKhadz already explained the problem with a lower interpretation(Tech Jacket threw it very far but it exploded on it's own) calculation
Since apparently it could’ve somehow just been a spontaneous explosion (nonsense imo), there’s no way to gauge the size of the explosion (it doesn’t even look like an explosion) to know the distance thrown before it exploded.
Click to expand...
A ship exploding from heat of the Sun would need to be quite close, and the size of the explosion would suggest it's planet+ sized if that were true.
Click to expand...
 
Don't tell me "you're the one who doesn't believe in it," I already know that, you may be trying to portray me like I'm alone on it or something. I had my takes on the matter, I explained them, and you just disagreed, not a valid reason to close the thread. If the thread is closed, the idea can be brought up again without voicing the issues with the feat. Let's say I'm wrong, ok, let more people judge it like that on this CRT, as things should be.
 
Eficiente said:
Don't tell me "you're the one who doesn't believe in it," I already know that, you may be trying to portray me like I'm alone on it or something. I had my takes on the matter, I explained them, and you just disagreed, not a valid reason to close the thread. If the thread is closed, the idea can be brought up again without voicing the issues with the feat. Let's say I'm wrong, ok, let more people judge it like that on this CRT, as things should be.
Click to expand...
I mean the goal of this thread was to upgrade the verse using this feat but with what's been laid out that isn't really happening
 
Eficiente said:
Calc'ing the ship being thrown that far away, not the explosion. The explosion would come from the ship itself being damaged.
Click to expand...
The ship is being thrown at FTL speeds so we can't calc that unless we arbitrarily decrease the speed of the ship to 93% Sol, and even then I doubt it'd upgrade the verse's lifting strength by much if at all.
 
I think the ship did actually collide with the Sun and didn't explode from the heat at it's surface. Kresh ships would need to be able to survive re-entry into their own atmosphere, which is so dense that they need special full body suits to survive in other environments. Re-entry into Earth's atmosphere can already reach up to 7,000 degrees Fahrenheit, so re-entry into a far denser atmosphere would reach far higher temperatures. On the other hand, the surface of the sun is only 10,000 degrees Fahrenheit. Due to the nature of their home planet their ships would likely need to be able to survive temperatures relative to that of the surface of the sun, so I doubt it would randomly explode near the sun's surface due to the heat. also the heat transfer probably wouldn't happen fast enough due to the extremely low density of the outer layers of the sun anyway
@Eficiente
 
So what's the current purpose of the thread, clearing up if the ship exploded on the sun or not ? It did

What after that ? Call for the evaluation of the most recent calculation, or do yet another one ? Add a 5 second timeframe end
 
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Tahoy49574 said:
So what's the current purpose of the thread, clearing up if the ship exploded on the sun or not ? It did

What after that ? Call for the evaluation of the most recent calculation, or do yet another one ? Add a 5 second timeframe
Click to expand...
I think we should add a 5 second timeframe to the calculation. Though I did find a "problem" in the calc that lowballs it's result.

Essentially the calc uses only the top layer of the sun for the density, but the total volume of ejected solar material is 1.1938605e+25 m^3. This is problematic as the total volume of the top layer of the sun is- Pi * 2,189,496,500^2 * 1689811.20 = 2.5449343e+25 m^3 or a little over double that. Yet the ejection doesn't even cover close to one hemisphere of the sun (and there is no visual signs that material from the top layer was pulled in from all over the rest of the sun's surface. The total volume of the top layer covered by the ejection is only pi * 169224324.324^2 * 1689811.20 = 1.5202452e+23 m^3 which is a little over 1% of the total volume. This means that the ejection had to include layers of the sun below the top layer which have a far higher density. If you're questioning how would we know what fraction of each lower layer contributed to the ejection, the answer is we don't need to know. The entire height of the entire ejection is less than the depth of the convection zone of the sun, which luckily has the exact same density as the layer above it (the photosphere). And the only layer above that is the top layer which we know the max volume of that could've contributed to the ejection. So we can just use the new density for the rest of the volume of the ejection.

I debated the issue with the original creator of the calc and we "agreed to disagree" i was not great at explaining my points back then imo before I did a recalculation of it on CSAP. Though we stopped talking about it so idk if he ever saw it
The only issue is that the new result would be low into 5-A, and I'm not sure if that would labeled as an outlier or not. Though using GBE the result would be Low 5-B still, and be a significant upgrade.
 
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FusionPrime0 said:
I think we should add a 5 second timeframe to the calculation.
Click to expand...
The calculation as is also needs to be updated with RKE
FusionPrime0 said:
The only issue is that the new result would be low into 5-A, and I'm not sure if that would labeled as an outlier or not. Though using GBE the result would be Low 5-B still, and be a significant upgrade.
Click to expand...
As rejected as previous upgrades to the verse have been, from what I've gathered people are still up for them so I wouldn't say so. I'm guessing people are going to point at Viltrum to call it an outlier, but said planet could also not be destroyed by an stated and shown star-busting ray so 🤷‍♂️ it couldn't even permanently damage it, it was going to quickly stabilize

You shoud post it and discuss it with calc group
 
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FusionPrime0 said:
posted it
Click to expand...
Add this bit to support the end above Low 5-B 🙏

Astounding Wolf-Man #11
image.png
 
Hasn't the thread kinda served it's purpose ? Now we just have to get calc mods to look into feat
 
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