Invincible fights his wobbly self (8-0-1)

[Tahoy49574]

Alternatively: "The Invincible War comes earlier"

• Beginning of Series Invincible is used
• Ditto has time to transform
• Fight takes Route 13

Invincible (Comics): AceOfSpaces3709, King_Clab, MannyQ361, Zyurtunder13, Poketmonsrs, O0DSF0o, Ztesrxgdfjcvgkbh, JustANormalLemon
Ditto:
Inconclusive: Mickey1940

 

[Fallen_Angelicx]

Iconic matchip

 

[Tahoy49574]

Iconic matchip

Gotta find a statue copy character to make him fight his PNG self

 

[King_Clab]

Voting Ditto
Ditto has a skill, and should have a experience advantage (since this is beginning of series mark)
Mark does have a Durability advantage, but I feel like Ditto makes up for it with its more skill, and experience .

 

[Tahoy49574]

Voting Ditto
Ditto has a skill, and should have a experience advantage (since this is beginning of series mark)
Mark does have a Durability advantage, but I feel like Ditto makes up for it with its more skill, and experience .

Can Mark make Ditto laugh with a corny one-liner ?

 

[King_Clab]

Can Mark make Ditto laugh with a corny one-liner ?

Depends on the ditto itself, but if Mark can actually make Ditto laugh, then he unironically wins the fight because Ditto de-transforms when laughing

 

[Imaginym]

Is there precedent for Ditto copying things that works on atoms?

IIRC, Viltrumite powers are based on "smart atoms", like their flight being pushing off of the atoms or something in the air? (Or was it molecules.)

Ditto works with DNA, IIRC.
Do "smart atoms" come with the Viltrumite DNA?

I don't remember if there's any Pokemon that work with atomic stuff, though there is Mr. Mime, IIRC, which makes its barriers by freezing molecules in place.

Depending on how the mechanics work, this might be a mismatch via Ditto being unable to copy Viltrumite powers.

 

[Tahoy49574]

Is there precedent for Ditto copying things that works on atoms?

IIRC, Viltrumite powers are based on "smart atoms", like their flight being pushing off of the atoms or something in the air? (Or was it molecules.)

Ditto works with DNA, IIRC.
Do "smart atoms" come with the Viltrumite DNA?

I don't remember if there's any Pokemon that work with atomic stuff, though there is Mr. Mime, IIRC, which makes its barriers by freezing molecules in place.

Depending on how the mechanics work, this might be a mismatch via Ditto being unable to copy Viltrumite powers.

They clearly come from the DNA given hybrids

 

[AyOgUyS]

Ditto FRA ig?

 

[Mickey1940]

does ditto understand english and would Mark be able to figure out Ditto's weakness to laughter

 

[AyOgUyS]

does ditto understand english

all Pokemon can in the anime at least

and would Mark be able to figure out Ditto's weakness to laughter

idk probs not

 

[Mickey1940]

all Pokemon can in the anime at least

idk probs not

then Ditto prob takes it high diff cuz skill upscaling from Machamp but it'd be close since Marco isn't stupid either

voting ditto

 

[AyOgUyS]

then Ditto prob takes it high diff cuz skill upscaling from Machamp but it'd be close since Marco isn't stupid either

voting ditto

honestly I think every mon skill scaling to Machamp is very stoobid but I suppose we have to use it here

 

[Mickey1940]

honestly I think every mon skill scaling to Machamp is very stoobid but I suppose we have to use it here

i mean if Ditto copies a machamp it can use moves and match other Machamp despite Ditto not copying their memories or experiences

meaning he just knows how to do that lmao, it's really weird

 

[AyOgUyS]

i mean if Ditto copies a machamp it can use moves and match other Machamp despite Ditto not copying their memories or experiences

meaning he just knows how to do that lmao, it's really weird

ditto's fine its just I think currently EVERY Pokemon is skill scaling to Machamp and alazakam for some reason

 

[Mickey1940]

ditto's fine its just I think currently EVERY Pokemon is skill scaling to Machamp and alazakam for some reason

well Ditto is also just... a wild animal, like every other pokemon. All fully evolved pokemon scale directly to each other in stats so the only differing factor would be skill and moveset, but plenty of pokemon can sill fight Machamp and Alakazam in the wild on even footing, so it's likely that their battle intuition should be on their level as well

 

[AyOgUyS]

All fully evolved pokemon scale directly to each other in stats

yea that's gotta go one day, maybe I'll even make a CRT on it if I can gather support

 

[Mickey1940]

yea that's gotta go one day, maybe I'll even make a CRT on it if I can gather support

well

fully evolved pokemon regularly show up at the same or similar levels in game

and fully evolved pokemon are regularly shown to be stronger than unevolved pokemon with a few notable exceptions for trainer mons, but in the wild it's much more common to see fully evolved pokemon being superior

I don't see why that doesn't make sense

 

[Poketmonsrs]

Ditto FRA

 

[Tahoy49574]

well Ditto is also just... a wild animal, like every other pokemon. All fully evolved pokemon scale directly to each other in stats so the only differing factor would be skill and moveset, but plenty of pokemon can sill fight Machamp and Alakazam in the wild on even footing, so it's likely that their battle intuition should be on their level as well

yea that's gotta go one day, maybe I'll even make a CRT on it if I can gather support

So...does Ditto fully scale to Machamp's skill, or how does his mimicry relate to his overall IQ ? Like, Homelander is not "hard-wired for battle" but still beat Ditto through sheer killing intent

 

[Tahoy49574]

Anyway, Mark's most notable showing at the time is against Allen, who's been taught since birth to be "the greatest fighter the universe had ever seen" and has extensive training in armed and unarmed combat systems". Allen was precisely sent to test how capable of fighter Earth's champion was and during their encounters Allen compliments Mark and is even caught off guard by him, so he isn't completely helpless skill-wise.

Also, he isn't as wishy-washy with his strength as TV Mark. Like, the moment he realized Tether Tyrant was as strong as him he went all out (also, another showing of his ingenuity, as soon as he punched Tether Tyrant he stood still to use the tethers as a slingshot to make him bounce back and take out another guy)

 

[Mickey1940]

So...does Ditto fully scale to Machamp's skill, or how does his mimicry relate to his overall IQ ? Like, Homelander is not "hard-wired for battle" but still beat Ditto through sheer killing intent

It seems like Homelander won by utilizing his rage boost earlier than Ditto does due to Ditto not copying Homelander's tempermant

I think they all unanimously agreed that Ditto was a better fighter and had better instincts

 

[Tahoy49574]

Anyway, Mark's most notable showing at the time is against Allen, who's been taught since birth to be "the greatest fighter the universe had ever seen" and has extensive training in armed and unarmed combat systems". Allen was precisely sent to test how capable of fighter Earth's champion was and during their encounters Allen compliments Mark and is even caught off guard by him, so he isn't completely helpless skill-wise.

Also, he isn't as wishy-washy with his strength as TV Mark. Like, the moment he realized Tether Tyrant was as strong as him he went all out (also, another showing of his ingenuity, as soon as he punched Tether Tyrant he stood still to use the tethers as a slingshot to make him bounce back and take out another guy)

Also, using space has worked out for him against Below-Average IQ opponents, so he could try something like that again

 

[Mickey1940]

Anyway, Mark's most notable showing at the time is against Allen, who's been taught since birth to be "the greatest fighter the universe had ever seen" and has extensive training in armed and unarmed combat systems". Allen was precisely sent to test how capable of fighter Earth's champion was and during their encounters Allen compliments Mark and is even caught off guard by him, so he isn't completely helpless skill-wise.

Also, he isn't as wishy-washy with his strength as TV Mark. Like, the moment he realized Tether Tyrant was as strong as him he went all out (also, another showing of his ingenuity, as soon as he punched Tether Tyrant he stood still to use the tethers as a slingshot to make him bounce back and take out another guy)

then they'd probably be dead even since they both scale to master martial artists, although the world of Invincible doesn't exactly show any skill other than statements of being trained in "all manners of combat" yet most of the time they just punch and kick without much actual martial arts display. To be fair Machamp is the same way though which is why I assume they'r emostly even

 

[Mickey1940]

Also, using space has worked out for him against Below-Average IQ opponents, so he could try something like that again

Ditto is copying Mark off rip no matter what he does. Tossing a copy of himself into space will accomplish nothing

 

[Zyurtunder13]

Ditto is copying Mark off rip no matter what he does. Tossing a copy of himself into space will accomplish nothing

Mark's space survival is something that he had to learn from his dad, is not an innate or passive ability of his

 

[Hypertornado099]

Voting Ditto
Ditto has a skill, and should have a experience advantage (since this is beginning of series mark)
Mark does have a Durability advantage, but I feel like Ditto makes up for it with its more skill, and experience .

Can someone in this thread name a single good Ditto skill feat?

 

[Imaginym]

Can someone in this thread name a single good Ditto skill feat?

Of Ditto itself rather than Pokemon it can transform into?

IIRC, its Transformation ability is its whole thing. Off the top of my head, there's a whole Alola episode where a Ditto gets loose in the Aether Foundation, & spends the majority of the episode evading detection & re-containment (It wasn't a trainer's Pokemon, nor was anyone trying to use Poke Balls to catch/recall it.) by the humans.

While doing so, it was able to frequently/repeatedly transform & un-transform from various Pokemon forms.

From Bulbapedia:

Deceiving Appearances!

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

In Deceiving Appearances!, five Ditto were getting vaccinated at Aether Paradise. One of them escaped but was soon rescued. One of them reappeared in a flashback in A Masked Warning!. All of them reappeared in Don't Ignore the Small Stufful!.

Beyond that, there's not much immediately off the top of my head, though there may be stuff not remembered or not checked by me:

Ditto (Pokémon)

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

They clearly come from the DNA given hybrids

Strange that DNA gives them some sort of atomic manipulation ability, but okay. Thank you very much for clarifying!

 

[Tahoy49574]

Of Ditto itself rather than Pokemon it can transform into?

IIRC, its Transformation ability is its whole thing. Off the top of my head, there's a whole Alola episode where a Ditto gets loose in the Aether Foundation, & spends the majority of the episode evading detection & re-containment (It wasn't a trainer's Pokemon, nor was anyone trying to use Poke Balls to catch/recall it.) by the humans.

While doing so, it was able to frequently/repeatedly transform & un-transform from various Pokemon forms.

From Bulbapedia:

Deceiving Appearances!

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

In Deceiving Appearances!, five Ditto were getting vaccinated at Aether Paradise. One of them escaped but was soon rescued. One of them reappeared in a flashback in A Masked Warning!. All of them reappeared in Don't Ignore the Small Stufful!.

Beyond that, there's not much immediately off the top of my head, though there may be stuff not remembered or not checked by me:

Ditto (Pokémon)

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Strange that DNA gives them some sort of atomic manipulation ability, but okay. Thank you very much for clarifying!

So does he mimic his opponent's fighting skill or is it just limited to Machamp's ?

 

[Mickey1940]

So does he mimic his opponent's fighting skill or is it just limited to Machamp's?

It's limited to any tactic other pokemon uses, as well as what it observes its opponent use while fighting them

to be fair Mark doesn't really have anything too complicated so he should be able to just copy mark's fighting style anyways

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[AceOfSpaces3709]

So...does Ditto fully scale to Machamp's skill, or how does his mimicry relate to his overall IQ ? Like, Homelander is not "hard-wired for battle" but still beat Ditto through sheer killing intent

No, Ditto doesn't scale to Machamp's skill at all. According to its profile, it only scales to Machamp's first pre-evolution, Machop.

Below Average normally (Capable of coherent speech between other Pokémon, a degree of understanding of commands and social situations, and can solve minor puzzles, though still mostly driven by instinct), Above Average in combat (Pokémon are hard-wired for battle, even in the wild can master many moves and replicate the likes of Machop which train in all martial arts)

Unlike Machamp, who's stated in various Pokédex entries to have mastered all of Earth's martial arts. Machop has only BEGUN its journey in learning every martial art. So while Machop is skilled, its combat knowledge is still... well? Above Average, and not notable enough to stand out in any fields compared to its final form, or Pokémon that directly scale to Machamp in skill like Hawlucha, and maybe Incineroar (Based on this USUM sidequest)

I'd say Mark is slightly more skilled, given his fight with Allen, and I'm pretty certain Allen is far more skilled than Machamp. While the latter knows every martial art on Earth (There are currently over 175 recognized martial arts in our world, though there's likely far more in the Pokémon universe), Allen was literally trained from birth to be ''the greatest fighter in the universe'', and knows many forms of unarmed and armed combat. It's also worth noting that Mark did fight Viltrumites (Most of whom had thousands of years of straight combat experience) alongside Nolan on Thraxa, and despite nearly dying, managed to impress General Kregg, who considered him a worthy replacement for Nolan in conquering Earth.

So, I think Mark wins this, with some difficulty.

In other words, I vote Marky Mark

 

[Mickey1940]

No, Ditto doesn't scale to Machamp's skill at all. According to its profile, it only scales to Machamp's first pre-evolution, Machop.

Unlike Machamp, who's stated in various Pokédex entries to have mastered all of Earth's martial arts. Machop has only BEGUN its journey in learning every martial art. So while Machop is skilled, its combat knowledge is still... well? Above Average, and not notable enough to stand out in any fields compared to its final form, or Pokémon that directly scale to Machamp in skill like Hawlucha, and maybe Incineroar (Based on this USUM sidequest)

I'd say Mark is slightly more skilled, given his fight with Allen, and I'm pretty certain Allen is far more skilled than Machamp. While the latter knows every martial art on Earth (There are currently over 175 recognized martial arts in our world, though there's likely far more in the Pokémon universe), Allen was literally trained from birth to be ''the greatest fighter in the universe'', and knows many forms of unarmed and armed combat. It's also worth noting that Mark did fight Viltrumites (Most of whom had thousands of years of straight combat experience) alongside Nolan on Thraxa, and despite nearly dying, managed to impress General Kregg, who considered him a worthy replacement for Nolan in conquering Earth.

So, I think Mark wins this, with some difficulty.

In other words, I vote Marky Mark

Ditto can copy machamp and match them in combat exactly

saying that Ditto only scales to Machop makes no sense

 

[Hypertornado099]

Why do people keep bringing up Ditto's skill? It is as skilled as whoever it copies,

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[Tahoy49574]

bump

 

[King_Clab]

No, Ditto doesn't scale to Machamp's skill at all. According to its profile, it only scales to Machamp's first pre-evolution, Machop.

Unlike Machamp, who's stated in various Pokédex entries to have mastered all of Earth's martial arts. Machop has only BEGUN its journey in learning every martial art. So while Machop is skilled, its combat knowledge is still... well? Above Average, and not notable enough to stand out in any fields compared to its final form, or Pokémon that directly scale to Machamp in skill like Hawlucha, and maybe Incineroar (Based on this USUM sidequest)

I'd say Mark is slightly more skilled, given his fight with Allen, and I'm pretty certain Allen is far more skilled than Machamp. While the latter knows every martial art on Earth (There are currently over 175 recognized martial arts in our world, though there's likely far more in the Pokémon universe), Allen was literally trained from birth to be ''the greatest fighter in the universe'', and knows many forms of unarmed and armed combat. It's also worth noting that Mark did fight Viltrumites (Most of whom had thousands of years of straight combat experience) alongside Nolan on Thraxa, and despite nearly dying, managed to impress General Kregg, who considered him a worthy replacement for Nolan in conquering Earth.

So, I think Mark wins this, with some difficulty.

In other words, I vote Marky Mark

Isn’t this Season 1 Mark? This is the mark that didn’t even fight Omni-man yet, unless I missed something

 

[Tahoy49574]

Isn’t this Season 1 Mark? This is the mark that didn’t even fight Omni-man yet, unless I missed something

Wouldn't Season 1 Mark encompass all of Season 1, and thus the fight with Omni-Man ? Anyway, this is specifically Comic Mark, he fights Omni-Man in #12 and this key goes up roughly when he goes to Thraxa (#25-#26)