Instant Death Gods causality stuff ig

[SweetDao]

So, since I think only one other thread is available right now, it should be fine to make another one since the other one will pass today.

Right now, Gods have this as a justification for their acausality:

Acausality (4; Comparable to Heavenly Record Eater who exist outside of heavenly record system and space-time)

Unless they straight up don't have any justification, like UEG for example.

To put it briefly, the justification is shit and also false, but that's probably because it's a rather old acausality rating compared to our current standards. God forbid, every single person traveling through the Sea gets acausality type 4.

So I want to introduce something infinitely better as a justification for either Acausality type 4 or Causality Manipulation + Invincibility.

Gods are naturally protected by an "eternal power", the exact word used is 不変 which mean eternal, everlasting, unchangeable, immutable, ...

Raw: 「まぁ他の諸々は些細なことだ。あくまで田淵の無敵性は不変属性にある。これを破れるわけがない」　不変の力は神々の力だ。不変属性を与えられた物は壊せない。単純なだけにとても強大な力だった。「何者かに負けたとするじゃろ？　その場合、どうやって不変を破ったかが問題となる。お主が心配しとるのはこれじゃろ？」「そうだ。我らが、死の運命から逃れし者（イモータル）、などと呼ばれるのはひとえにこの不変があってこそだ。不変が破れるならそれが根底からくつがえることになる」「ふむ……ではお主が田淵を倒すならどうするのじゃ？」　ヒュペリオンは少し考え込んでから、話し始めた。「まともに戦っては決着がつかんな。お互い不変で身を守っているのではな…イシュタル、お前ならできるか？」「可能じゃな。駒どもの力はわしらのシステムから供給されとるものなんじゃから、その供給を断てばよい。それで不変は使えなくなる。実に簡単じゃろう」「しかし、それが可能なのは我ら神々だけだ。まさか我らの中に裏切り者がいるとでもいうのか？」

Translation:

"Well, all other things are insignificant. Tabuchi's invincibility is simply coming from his eternal characteristics, so you can't ever destroy him."

The eternal power is bestowed by the gods. Therefore, it is impossible to destroy those who were blessed with this attribute. It's a simple yet powerful ability.

"You have lost to someone else, right? In that case, the question is, how did they even break through that invincibility of yours? You are worried about this, aren't you?"

"Indeed. We are referred to as Immortals (Those Who Escaped the Fate of Death) and such solely because of this invincibility. If our invincibility is to be broken, that means this principle has been overturned from its roots."

"Hmm…… Then, how would you be able to defeat Tabuchi?"

Hyperion ponders for a moment, then he begins to speak up.

"We cannot settle this in a direct battle 'cause we're both protecting ourselves with that immunity…… What about you, Ishtar? Can you do it?"

"It's possible. Since the pawns' power is provided by our system, we just need to cut that supply off."

"But such a feat can only be accomplished by us gods. Could it be that there's a traitor among us or something?"

As you can see, it's directly stated that someone blessed/having the "eternal/immutable" attribute is impossible to destroy.

Raw: そもそもイシュタルの体を破壊すること自体不可能なはずなのだ。 神々は不変の力で守られている。どんな攻撃でも傷一つ付けることはできないはずだった。 それを大魔王はあっさりと無視して攻撃してきたのだ。「あんなものはただのマーキングです。壊さないでね。って書いてあるだけのことですから、それを私が守る必要はありません」「馬鹿な……“世界”の理は絶対じゃ……」「何と言いますか……その“世界”に捕らわれたままでは私に勝つことは無理でしょう。私どころか魔界の中堅所の方にも勝てないと思いますよ？」イシュタルは愕然となった。全ての事象は“世界”の上で動いている。だからこそ、“世界”に不変と認められたのならそれを覆す術はない。それは大前提だ。それが“世界”の理だった。だがこの大魔王は“世界”を通さずにその影響を行使している。イシュタルはそんな存在を今まで見たことがなかった。イシュタルは潔く諦めた。勝ち目が見当たらない。それが十分にわかってしまった。

Translation: From the beginning, it was supposed to be impossible to destroy Ishtar’s body itself. The gods were protected by an eternal power. No attack should have been able to inflict even a scratch upon her. Yet, the Great Demon King flatly ignored this fact and delivered his strikes.

“That sort of thing is just a marking. Since the rules only said it ‘cannot be destroyed’, so there’s no need for me to abide by them.”

“It can’t be…… the principles of the ‘world’ are absolute……”

“How should I express it……? It’s impossible for you to beat me so long as you are trapped in that ‘world’. I just don’t think you can win against me, let alone a middle echelon of the Demon World, you know?”

Ishtar became speechless.

All phenomena are shifting on the “world”.

For that reason, if something is recognized by the “world” as constant, there would be no method to reverse it.

Such is the basic premise and the law of the “world”.

Yet this Great Demon King was exercising her impact without the need of going through the “world”.

Ishtar had never seen an existence like her until now. She graciously accepted her defeat.

She could not see any chance of winning. She knew it very well.

Additionally, if the "world" (in quotation mark, it means the whole cosmology) deems something as eternal/immutable, there should be no way to bypass that fact, unless you're some very specific individuals that can exert power without going through "the world" itself. To make it simple, it means that nothing can do damage to you because the "world" itself prevents it. (There is a slight bit of nuance here that I'll explain later on).

Raw: 『不変と概念攻撃をインストールしたでの。それでなんとかなるじゃろ』　それがなんなのか、光一には自然とわかっていた。　光一は不変を自らに施した。不変は望まない変化を否定する。これであらゆる攻撃を防げるようになった。

Translation: "I've installed immutability and conceptual attacks. That should do the trick."

Koichi naturally knew what it was.

Koichi applied immutability to himself. Immutability denies unwanted changes. With this, he was able to prevent all kinds of attacks.

The exact meaning of being "eternal" or "immutable" means to deny unwanted change, making you impervious to any kind of attack.

Therefore, as I stated above, either Acausality type 4 or Causality manipulation + invincibility should work. I'm not exactly sure as to which one to prioritize, I would personally be leaning toward the latter, merely because they aren't "above the causality/on another or different causality system)" of the verse, but merely protected by it. Although, if it's still enough to be type 4, I'm fine with it.

Now, for 99% of people, the next part will be useless, but I will tackle some of the scenes that happens in ID since some could perhaps have some doubts regarding coherence.

Spoiler: Big yap (Don't read if you're fine with the first part)

First case : God vs God fight.

This one is the easiest to tackle, as it's blatantly explained in ID. Gods have domains, and a fight against God is all about their domain. If both Gods are equally strong, their domain and omnipotence will negate each other, making them "powerless" (it will turn into a fist fight, basically). It is also stated that if one God is stronger than another, it will be the one to prevail.

Second Case : Vahanato vs Hedgehog.

While not as self-evident as the first one, it's still fairly simple to explain it. The Hedgehog is a God-Slaying machine, capable of exerting his own domain to counter Gods. Similarly, we're reminded that Vahanato body should be impervious to harm, reminding us of the whole "eternal" characteristic.

Third Case : Rick (Holy Sword) vs Vahanato

When a god is shaken to the core, it might disrupt their divinity. Rick admit he managed to killed her only because of the injuries the Hedgehog had done to her. Additionally, Vahanato had lost her mind due to the death of her loved one moment before. The sword helped too, somehow.

Fourth Case : Rick (Holy Sword) vs UEG

Probably one that is slightly annoying to explain. UEG is a special case, since she's not only extremely strong compared to the rest of the cast, she also deliberately matches the level of her opponents. Therefore, I think the best course of action would be to assume she deactivated her "immutable attribute" to have some fair fight. Like she explains, she purposely don't yield all her powers from the start. Basically, what I'm arguing isn't totally out of the realm of possibilities.

But to come back to the main topic, UEG was attacked by a Holy Sword that even baseline was good enough to somehow harm gods (see Third Case) but was now imbued with the concept of "god-slaying", so yeah, it seems logical she got killed due to it.

Let's not forget that "All events are shifting on the 'world' ", meaning that if the "world" deems that a "God-Slaying sword" can do a specific thing, you can be sure it will do it no matter what.

Fifth Case : Miranda vs Malna

Malna had her divinity shaken, got inside the domain of Kouryu and he got help from another omnipotent being. Miranda is also called the "Godslaying Scourge".

Sixth Case : Gorbagion vs Luu

Gorbagion, formerly known as Taylor, got his power from Gods. His whole gimmick is to "never go all-out" and therefore always become more powerful as a fight goes on. As we know, becoming "stronger" is a possible way of getting a higher rank of omnipotence, since it's the whole concept of the V-Road. As such, the explanation is just that he became "more omnipotent" than Luu and killed her thanks to his overwhelming strength.

That's all the case I have in mind, perhaps I forgot some, but you get the idea, most likely that everything can be explained one way or another.

Now, if the abilities are accepted, it should affect the following characters:

• All natural Gods (Vahanato, UEG, Luu, ...)
• People getting bestowed the "immutable attribute" directly (Mostly within the Demon King Novel, but also Mei Hanamiya since she's directly stated to be "invincible" thanks to the power of Gods)

The rest of characters, like V-Road Gods, Mitsuki, ... would either not get the ability or get it with a "possibly" since there is no definite proof that a human becoming a god gain the "immutable attribute" by default. Although, perhaps, it can still apply it.

That's about it, I think.

Agree: BoastJr, The_golden_and_silver_house94 (Causality + Invul), Digital_Franz (Causality + Invul), KingNanaya (Causality + Invul),

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[BoastJr]

Agreed. Looks simple and straightforward

 

[The_golden_and_silver_house94]

I think causality + invulnerablity is fine ,acausality type 4 involves a difference or higher system of causality which isn't the case here

 

[Digital_Franz]

Causality Manipulation and Invulnerability seem fine.

 

[KingNanaya]

Causality manipulation + invincibility

I agree with it being this