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Infamous (Universe) Revision

PTSOXMONKEY99

PTSOXMONKEY99

6,206
686
There are few things on John White's profile that need to be edited, either because they are incrorrect or unsupported.

1. "The Beast was able to vaporize and/or atomize island to country sized areas quickly"

•The blasts were nowhere near Country Level. They were closer to Small Island - Island Level.

IMG 2853
Scale of Beast's Blasts

IMG 2856
Before

IMG 2857
After

The last two are from Beast Cole, but they should still apply to John, seeing as how Cole now has his powers.

•Also, why are we saying that they were atomized/vaporized, when we can see that both Empire City and New Marais were still intact, just destroyed? These are the only images of the aftermath of a Ray Sphere Blast, and yet we see no signs of atomization.

IMG 2854
Smoking remains of Empire City

IMG 2855
Remains of New Marais

•It was to my understanding that Ray Sphere Blasts, the attack that John used to destroy said areas, negated durability, so how can we scale an attack that ignores durability to decide an AP tier? Which brings me to my next point

2. "Ray Sphere Blast ignores durability"

•It should be specified that Ray Sphere Blasts ignore durability against organic opponents. The reason being is that it was stated only to kill living things that weren't lucky enough to be Conduits, as stated here at 0:30. It even killed the Forced Conduits that Bertrand made because they weren't completely Conduits, just a sort of mutation/hybrid.

•The effects of Ray Sphere radiation can also be seen here at 12:00, where John releases a mini-Ray Sphere Blast that kills everyone in a warehouse except for the one Conduit. The Blast also destroys a portion of a warehouse.

•The atomization justification comes from the feat where John stands near an unstable Ray Sphere, and gets sucked into a vortex of energy. It is revealed in inFAMOUS 2 that John was atomized and had to pull himself back together.

•While it is obvious that Ray Sphere Blasts cannot ignore durability against non-organic foes/items, they still can cause damage, as shown by the Ray Sphere's detonation in inFAMOUS 1, where 6 city blocks were vaporized, and in inFAMOUS 2, where Empire City and New Marais was destroyed.

•Another thing to note that the radiation from a Ray Sphere can cause a non-Conduit to develop the Ray Sphere Plague, which is a disease that is so deadly that it kills people the same day they started showing signs of having the disease.

•So, the way I see it is this, Ray Sphere can ignore durability against organic beings, either by hitting hem directly and atomizing them, or by exposing someone to the radiation, causing them to develop the Ray Sphere Plague, and eventually die

3. Planetary Range

•I'm sorry, but the justification for John's planetary range makes no sense. It contradicts everything that happens. His main goal was to cure the world of the Ray Sphere Plague. If that was his main goal, then why didn't he just release a worldwide blast and be down with it? You can argue that he was "holding back" or "didn't enjoy killing people," but then why didn't Evil Cole, who had just absorbed John's powers, release a worldwide blast? He was shown to be more ruthless and determined, so why not just blast the whole planet? It makes no sense to have Evil Cole or John have planetary range from scaling to RFI Good Cole, when they themselves have no planetary range feats. RFI Cole is the only one to have a planetary range feat.

4. Can create small black holes

The Beast CANNOT create actual black holes. He can create pseudo-black holes, which absorb matter for him to heal himself or use to create his giant form. He also has gravity manipulation, which is how he creates the vaccume effect the "black hole" displays. As you can see here, the "black hole" acts nothing like an actual black hole.

5. Durability

We should probably remove the part about him being atomized, since, as aforementioned, the Ray Sphere Blasts ignore durability.

6. Resistance to Mind Manipulation

Where has John shown ANY signs of fighting off a mind manipulation? John himself was the only telepath in inFAMOUS 2.

Not saying John shouldn't be Multi-Continental, because he still scales to RFI Cole, but his current scaling doesn't make sense.
 
All of these can be chalked up to PSI.

1. John specifically says the Ray Sphere tore him apart atom by atom. And even in the first game Cole says that the Ray Sphere vaporized the entire six block radius.

2. If it ignores durability, there's no reason to change it unnecessarily.

3. Again, PSI. The future Beast was able to throw a blast from Earth all the way to the moon in a short time. And RFI Cole was able to release a world-wide blast casually by the end of the game. If that's the case, why didn't he just destroy the city with a single blast and move on? Or if we're we're talking about outliers, how come he was hurt by a 21 kiloton nuke in the same game? How come Superman (DCEU) is Island to Country level when Zack Snyder says a cruise missile can KO him? How come the CW Flash states his top speed is Mach 12 when he has numerous Mach 100 feats? RFI Cole released a world wide Blast, and The Beast threw a blast all the way at the moon. You can dismiss the fact because the writers just ******* FORGOT.

4. What's really the difference? I think people can tell it's not really a black hole.

5. Again, he said he was torn apart atom by atom. Also, he was a Conduit. The Ray Sphere doesn't ignore the durability of Conduits, but it still hurts them. Shown when Cole wasn't atomised by the Ray Sphere blast in Empire City, but was still severely wounded by it.

6. Resistance to Mind Manipulation is a trait shared by all Conduits like Healing Factor, Enhanced Physicality, and so on. Plus he was the most powerful Conduit in exsistance. There's no reason he shouldn't have this ability.
 
I am uncertain who of you is correct here, as I haven't played the game.
 
1. You're acting as if it isn't possible to atomize a body or vaporize concrete via energy. It is, it just requires a massive amount of energy, which I have no doubt that the Ray Sphere can produce. Also, as aforementioned, we never actually SEE the aftermath of any of his blasts. The only two we do, which are New Marais and Empire City, clearly show little signs of vaporization and absolutely NO signs of atomization. Also, if we are treating Ray Sphere Blasts as durability negation, then we can't use that determine AP. If a character has atomic manipulation, and can atomize a building, we don't automatically give them building level AP, because they didn't destroy the object via a conventional attack, they completely ignored the durability of said object and therefore cannot be given an AP tier. Hax does not determine AP.

2. It is necessary because Ray Sphere energy has so far only been shown to ignore durability against organic organisms. Yes, it can cause damage to its surroundings, but it doesn't ignore the durability of said object. It can OHKO non-Conduits, but it cannot atomize every object it touches.

3. First off, we don't know HOW Kessler's Beast destroyed the moon. We have no proof that it was a blast. The only thing we know is that he caused it. The how is still a complete unknown to us. That's only an assumption. Second off, you can't scale EVERY ability Cole has to John. RFI Cole is the only one to have a legit planetary range feat. John has never displayed a planetary range feat, it doesn't make sense for him to have it as stated in the OP. Thirdly, if you are trying to tell me that writer intenton means nothing when compared to what actually occurs, then my point still stands. John was putting out blast that barley scrapped by small island level in range. John has never displayed a planetary range feat in game, lore, or anywhere.

4. It matters because people will think he can create legit black holes, which will cause unnecessary arguments. We should strive to be as accurate and unbiased as possible.

5. The amount of energy required to atomize a human body is WAY below Multi-Continental. Also, Conduits have a natural resistance to Ray Sphere energy, as displayed by when Nix, Cole, and Bertrand all survived a Ray Sphere detonation, albeit heavily injured.

6. Firstly, where has it ever been stated or shown that all Conduits have Resistance to Mind Manipulation? Secondly, just because John was the most powerful doesn't mean we can automatically assume that he has all of these extra abilities. John never fought a telepath, or fought off any sort of mind manipulation, so how can we say for certain that he has resistance?
 
All Conduits have displayed mental abilities such as Telepathic Percption, Mind Control, Memory Manipulation, Telekinesis, etc. And all Conduits who have encountered Mind Control have shrugged it off like nothing, nor have any other Conduits shown to be susceptible to it.

The only way he could've destroyed the moon is with a blast, as there is no other way he could've. And it requires Planetary range to hit the moon from Earth. And The Beast was walking on the earth while the moon was destroyed.
 
No, they haven't. Alden was the only one to show Telekinesis. Sasha and Kessler are the only ones to have mind attacks. Cole can only READ memories, not manipulate them. Delsin literally read every Conduits mind in Second Son against their will. They couldn't fight him off. The only ones to fight off a mind attack are Kessler and Cole.

Once again, we're basing this off an assumption. We don't have any definitive proof. Also, while that points towards Kessler's Beast having planetary range, we still have little proof to back it up, which makes scaling extremely risky. And that wouldn't scale to Cole's Beast, because as I've proven, John HAS no planetary range feats.
 
I would also appreciate more staff input for this thread.
 
Well, I suppose that I will have to temporarily highlight the thread to get some attention.
 
I've played the game though I forgot most of it, I remember fighting the beast and wasn't seeing much of the stuff that claims to be multi-continental or whatever, but on the subject of atomization I believe it's 2.99 gigajoules to vaporize a human body, which is low-end building level.
 
The multi-continental comes from the fact that when Cole released the RFI Blast, it not only cleared the clouds covering North America, but it also cleared the sky's across the world. Right now it is unquantified, but it is similar enough to other cloud clearing feats to warrant a multi-continental level AP.

Not sure about atomizing a person though.
 
All changes seem pretty reasonable, so I agree with most of them. Just a small doubt since I'm not familiar with the verse. Given that Conduits are much more durable than humans, is it really safe to say that Ray Sphere Blasts ignore organic Durability of Non-Conduits (a classic NLF), and not that humans are simply too weak to survive the blast? Because the link only says that it would kill those who aren't Conduits, which I presume refers to regular humans.
 
Conduits have a resistance because they possess the Conduit gene, which activates when exposed to Ray Sphere radiation. You can think of Conduits as a sub-species of humans. They're extremely similar to each other, but Conduits posses a little something extra that allow them to survive Ray Sphere Blasts. Basically, if you don't have a Conduit gene, Ray Sphere radiation will either atomize you, or give you super cancer.
 
That I understand. I'm questioning the idea that because a Ray Sphere Blast atomizes humans it would atomize much stronger characters. The radiation having secondary effects bypassing durability is reasonable and I agree with it, you can be very strong and still be defeated by someone who attacks your biology or sticks a deadky illness on you.
 
Well, LazyHunter usually has good judgement, but I would prefer more staff input.
 
I suppose it's difficult to tell the effectiveness of the Ray Sphere Blasts due to the fact that it has only been used on humans, but it has also been used on Forced Conduits, which are humans who have been given Conduit powers, but are still considered "imperfect" Conduits, because they lack a Conduit gene. When John hit the Swamp Town on the outskirts of New Marais, as reported by Zeke, he found all of the Swamp Monsters, another type of Forced Conduit, dead. This implies that they weren't atomized, but, it still shows that Ray Sphere Radiation/Energy can OHKO those lacking a Conduit gene. It's starting to look more like the energy scrambles your DNA, and the rest of the energy cooks you.
 
Then it seems that it's not that the Ray Sphere Blasts ignore organic non-Conduit durability, it's that the Ray Sphere Radiation is basically lethal to non-Conduits because they lack the resistance to it. Regular humans are just weak enough that the blasts are capable of atomizing them.
 
Well no, that's not quite it. Conduits posses the Conduit gene, which lets their bodies absorb the energy and active said gene, which causes their powers to manifest. However, even then, there is still a chance that a Conduit can be killed in the blast. Kessler had prepared other subjects in case Cole were to be killed in the Ray Sphere's detonation. Cole survived, albeit heavily injured. Same for Nix and Bertrand. The reason why the Swamp Monsters died was because they were incomplete Conduits. However, they are far stronger than humans, as they can tank hordes of bullets, grenades, rockets and even attacks from Cole. Im saying it's not that it atomizes non-Conduits, but it does ignore durability in that there it screws up your DNA/genetics. It's basically super radiation.
 
I think we are both agreeing in that point. It's super radiation, not atomization hax. Naturally, the energy blast would still be able to hurt Conduits even if they can survive the radiation part of the attack.
 
The page seems more about Ray Spheres that the energy itself, though "vaporizing humans by draining them of bioelectricity" is a bit weird.
 
I think that may be a typo, but the point is, it gives us a better idea of how Ray Field energy works. The stuff about the Sphere should apply to John and Beast Cole, since John basically fused with the Ray Sphere and basically became one himself. Evil Cole gets it because he relieves Johns powers. The draining part actually makes sense, since John was aiming to go to the part of the city were the population was the densest.

So from what we now know about Ray Field Energy/Radiation:

•Ray Spheres drain neuroelectricity from nearby people, converts it into Ray Field Energy, and then releases the energy in a blast, the energy from will have 1 of 2 effects: Those possessing the Conduit gene will have their powers awoken. Non-Conduits will be destroyed by the energy (however, it will not bypass their durability). If a Non-Conduit Enhanced Individual were to be in the Blast radius, they would die via the Radiation/Energy disrupting/breaking their DNA/genetic structure (ignores durability) (example: Swamp Monsters). People who are not in the Blast, but are still close enough to interact with the Radiation will develop the Ray Sphere Plague, the effectiveness is extremely high, seeing as how it has killed people the same day they started showing symptoms.

Sound good?
 
Alrighty then. I'll wait for more input before putting in the edits.

Thanks for an interesting and rational conversation. Learned a few things.
 
@LazyHunter What are your conclusions here?
 
1. I agree with changing the description. It's obvious that if we can see the remains/ruins of the city, it has not been totally vaporized/atomized.

2. Ray Sphere Blasts don't ignore organic durability, it's an irradiated energy blast preceded by draining nearby bioelectricity. Radiation does ignore durability to a certain extent, but that's a byproduct of the attack.

3. If the Beast doesn't have a planetary range feat, we don't know how he destroyed the moon and he requires multiple blasts to destroy the US; its range should probably be downgraded.

4. Pseudo Black Holes are not Black Holes and I agree that the distinction should probably be noted on the page.

5. This should remain on his page, given that we've decided that the energy of the Ray Sphere doesn't ignore durability after all.

6. If the Beast hasn't displayed Resistance to Mind Manipulation, it should be removed from the page.
 
Here's what we decided for Ray Field Energy:

•Ray Spheres drain neuroelectricity from nearby people, converts it into Ray Field Energy, and then releases the energy in a blast, the energy from will have 1 of 2 effects: Those possessing the Conduit gene will have their powers awoken. Non-Conduits will be destroyed by the energy (however, it will not bypass their durability). If a Non-Conduit Enhanced Individual were to be in the Blast radius, they would die via the Radiation/Energy disrupting/breaking their DNA/genetic structure (ignores durability) (example: Swamp Monsters). People who are not in the Blast, but are still close enough to interact with the Radiation will develop the Ray Sphere Plague, the effectiveness is extremely high, seeing as how it has killed people the same day they started showing symptoms.
 
Okay. I am fine with if you apply LazyHunter's conclusions to the profiles.

You can tell me here if you need me to unlock any of them.
 
I just need you to unlock The Beast's (inFAMOUS) and Cole MacGrath's page.

Should I add in the part about how Ray Field Blasts first drain someone of their bio-electricity and then converts that energy into Ray Field energy and releases that into a blast? It should also still mess with someone's genetic structure.
 
Okay. I will unlock them.

You can add it if LazyHunter agreed.
 
Okay. Then it should be fine.
 
Change the name of the thread to Infamous (Universe) Revision pls, or something like that.

When I first saw the name, I thought it was some really controversal revision.
 
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