Important Questions on Dies Irae (and Interview) Characters' Powers

[Warren_Valion]

Hi, Y'all.

I've got some questions about some abilities from my favorite series, and I'd really help in answering them - since I am ******* at a lost for most of them.

The answers from all these questions could very well lead into a CRT proposing whatever, but for right now - all I need are answers.

Anyway, the first thing I want to bring up is just inaccuracies in our LDO profiles.

Immortality vs. Longevity
For starters, all characters have Immortality Type 1 - this is wrong, they should all have Longevity, sans Mercurius, for the fact that souls age in Masada.

Even Reinhard was stated to not be immortal in Interview and that the purpose of the Transmutation of Gold was, in fact, immortality.

However, and correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the Einherjar and Reinhard stated to be immortal in Dies Irae?

I'm curious, is that a contradiction?

Adding Weakness: Soul Capacity and Expense
Shouldn't we add weakness to the LDO's pages?

In Interview, it is clearly stated numerous times hat the members of the LDO's magic is limited by the number of souls they currently have and that they can drain and burn through their reserves by using their magic.

And that by using up all the souls without replenishing them will cause them to revert back into a regular Human being until they absorb another soul? And that each individual person has a limit on the number of souls they can possess, which can be increased through furthering one's mastery of the arcane.


The exceptions to this are obviously sensory Merc, but also Reinhard and his Einherjar because Glads supplies a "limitless supply of life" as stated by Wilhelm in his fight with Meth.

Do you think that Ren Fuiji could also be an exception because his soul is Marie - a 1-A being?


Anyway, there's a slight problem that I have with adding these weaknesses - I don't remember this ever being a thing in Dies Irae - I never remember hearing that a character was burning through their "soul reserves" and that they will become "powerless" without it, or that characters had a soul capacity in the first place.

I was under the impression that there wasn't a limit, and that the members can just keep increasing their power by increasing the number of souls they have.


Was this ever mentioned in Dies Irae? Is it a retcon? Should it be applied to the profiles?

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...

Gladsheimr's Capacity
Now, this is a big one that I can't wrap my head around.

How many souls that Reinhard has. I have a sca that states that his soul capacity is limitless and can continuously collect souls.

But how many souls does he have? I have heard a range starting at millions and ending with infinity.

Now usually, I would ignore the infinity statements as nothing more than hyperbole, and in some scenes - it is.

But then how can Reinhard's magic, and the magic of the Einherjar never run out - as Wilhelm states, "Gladsheimr was filling me with a limitless supply of life"- that's why he didn't care on how injured he was when fighting Meth, because he can indefinitely regenerate because Gladsheimr keeps bringing him back endlessly.

Ok... but how is this possible if Reinhard has a limited amount of souls collected? Wouldn't he eventually run out?

Regenerationn
I feel like just stating that they have Low-Godly regen naturally is just somewhat dishonest because we don't state how long it takes to regenerate - and people assume that they regen instantly, and/or indefinitely.

Correct me if I am wrong, but don't wounds take like hours to days to properly heal depending on their severity? I specifically remember Wilhelm saying that his injuries from fighting Wolfgang and Machina would take a few hours to fully heal even after sleeping for half a day - I didn't capture the scan, but I could if needed.

However, when in Gladsheimr, they have proven to regenerate nearly instantly dozens of times, which I think should also be stated.

Also, as stated in my earlier scan. Regenerationn is borderline completely negated when the user runs out of souls.

Meth's Darkness
I also got some questions about Meth's darkness aura.

• Pressure of Darkness: Methuselah is darkness itself. An ancient miracle that is beyond magic. His mere breathing, gaze and words overturn common sense. Everyone fears the dark, and even those who fully revel in it like Wilhelm are no exception due to it being a horrific concept. It's frightening to wander in the dark, even if it is the darkness of one night. And therefore, what happens when one touches his "mass", composed of thousands, ten thousands, decillions of recurrences of mystery of nights that are all infinitely equal? Spirit and mind collapses in the abyss. Half of the world crashed into a state of panic that day. Some suicides, some goes insane and some just cannot withstand the pressure of his divine authority they end up dying. Those swallowed by the wave of darkness are left with nightmares and curses for the future generation. Just hearing, reading and looking at the heritage of Methuselah will turn them mad, and even changing fetuses in a women wombs into Noah's children (albinos).

Now, my first question comes from whether or not this is combat applicable.

The aura was only mentioned this one time when Meth specifically communicates to the LDO, and regular people as well. However, it specifically states that only two people were unaffected by such a density - Merc and Reinhard.

So if only Merc and Reinhard remained unaffected, then does that mean that the other LDO members were affected by the mindhax?

And does this mindhax also apply to when Meth is fighting as well?

Does the "density" of darkness apply to when he is attacking others with his condensed darkness - like the Jaws of Darkness? <

If so, why weren't the LDO members who were supposedly affected before, not affected when they fought Meth?

Is it just a plot hole, or do these characters not have the mental resistance that we give them?

Questions Answered

• Immortality vs. Longevity (All).
• Meth's Darkness (All)
• Gladsheimr's Capacity (All)
• Regenerationn (All)
• Adding Weakness: Soul Capacity and Expense (All)

Completed, thank you

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

For Rein is because of the ritual that they performed in Berlin, from there on he is supposed to be immortality along with his commanders.

 

[Warren_Valion]

For Rein is because of the ritual that they performed in Berlin, from there on he is supposed to be immortality along with his commanders.

I thought that was the case.

Still, that would be something that needs to be separated from Dies Irae Reinhard.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I guess? It doesn't really change much.

For the others I will post later since I'm on the University right now :v

 

[Warren_Valion]

I guess? It doesn't really change much.
For the others I will post later since I'm on the University right now :v

Of course - your studies come before everything.

Good luck, and enjoy.

 

[Matteste]

Hi, slightly new here (have kept up with the threads, but never posted before).

Regarding the souls consumption, I do remember that it came up in the original during Ren's battle with the Three Commanders in Rea's route. Nameley, Schrieber ends up burning through his entire supply during the battle, leaving him wide open for Ren to finish him off.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Hi, slightly new here (have kept up with the threads, but never posted before).
Regarding the souls consumption, I do remember that it came up in the original during Ren's battle with the Three Commanders in Rea's route. Nameley, Schrieber ends up burning through his entire supply during the battle, leaving him wide open for Ren to finish him off.

That was specifically because Schrieber was using his True Briah which is so contradicting because he is so insane that his soul stock was blowing itself up.

However, Gladsheimr will just revive Schrieber's lost souls.

 

[THOK_AST_THOK]

The whole point of the first Ougon Rensei was to put Beast and his Gladsheimr into a state of permanence. Why would it be a contradiction of anything?

It was already a thing back in DI, though it never really became a relevant thing that got brought up often. It doesn't really matter either way, Apostle by default plunder soul as they attack. Whatever soul expenditure they might have, they can regain back what was lost in the process, making it practically negligible. A battle between Apostle basically boils down to upsetting someone's maintenance expenses. This is more prevalent in Song to the Witches wherein Rusalka stated that fighting Marilyn Monroe is your lost whether you win or lose because there's no soul for you to gain simply because Monroe's capability to plunder soul was better than most LDO members. Both Beatrice and Rusalka can't regain back the soul they spent to fight Monroe and her cronies

Reinhard's capacity to hold soul is indeed infinite. That's part of the reason why his literal body can act as a Relic all on its own. That doesn't mean the soul that he possesses is infinite in number. If this was a game, just think of his MP bar being glitched out thus having no limit to how much you can fill it, but his MP count itself is still normal and have a finite value

Apostles hinder Regenerationn by default. Shirou showed you that an Apostle can remake their body out of nothing but a soul (at that point he was nothing but a soul within Bey/Rusalka) within an instant without something hindering their Regenerationn. This happened when he usurp Bey's/Rusalka's Relic (depending on which route), making it his own and turning him into an Apostle himself. He remade his body while still inside Rusalka and busrting out of her, which leave her dying in the process. Rusalka had to rely solely on her sorcery to even stay alive

Why wouldn't it? The narration when the fight scene ensued even stated that Methuselah have myriads of way to kill both physically and mentally, and while he normally held himself back from doing that because it made him feel ugly, he saw no reason to hold back in that fight. He practically showed up at LDO base, flex on them as an old divinity, then bail out. Reinhard and Karl expicitly mentioned to not be affected is a solid evidence for them, doesn't necessarily mean it'll automatically invalidate the clause for the others. The rest of the LDO might or might not be affected, in which case they show in the fight scene that they can keep their sanity intact and their mind functioning

Never mind that the idea of "a certain type of being whose existence itself is a form of attack" isn't even a new idea in IkaBey either. It was just a recycled idea dating back to AeF DI. Schreiber in his true Briah also damages soul through his breathing, gaze, and voice. Also used in KKK for someone like Akuro or Morei. Might not be the case for every Gudou ever; But at a certain point, their very gaze, breathing, voice, etc. Whatever they do is an enforcement of their Law/Craving/Divinity/etc

 

[Warren_Valion]

@THOK AST THOK

Thanks a lot, you've helped me with most of my questions.

I'd appreciate it if you could answer some more:


Shouldn't stuff like the soul capacity and soul drain, and the effects of having one's soul capacity completely drained be listed on the profile though? They are technically weaknesses, although they are mitigated through fighting others - I believe it should be noted as this is an indexing wiki after all.

Also, mentioning that LDO members naturally hinder Regenerationn with their attacks should also be mentioned on the profile - that's something that can shift an outcome in a fight, and seems like an important ability.

What would that even be, Limited-Regenerationn Negation or something?

Okay, I get that his capacity is infinite, but not the number of souls - which is fine, but how can Reinhard and his Einherjar never run out of souls? Wilhelm specifically said that endless life was flowing through him via Glads. How is that possible if Reinhard doesn't have an endless amount of souls?

 

[THOK_AST_THOK]

Sure, personally never really care about the profile pages myself so you do you i guess.. Isn't the superimposed history poison bit already on their pages though? I remember seeing them the last time i saw the pages

That was explained way back in DI. I forgot what route and which chapter it got mentioned. But the bottomline is, there's no such thing as death, destruction, or end in Gladsheimr. What has met their end simply get brought back, maintained by Reinhard himself. Later on the role is passed to the Sonnenkind ever since the first Ougon Rensei. Somewhat related to the bit about how an Einherjar not having the concept of death and when they got offed they just respawn back in Gladsheimr. Reinhard having a finite amount of soul in the end only became a technicality, since he can just make lost soul came back

 

[Warren_Valion]

Sure, personally never really care about the profile pages myself so you do you i guess.. Isn't the superimposed history poison bit already on their pages though? I remember seeing them the last time i saw the pages
That was explained way back in DI. I forgot what route and which chapter it got mentioned. But the bottomline is, there's no such thing as death, destruction, or end in Gladsheimr. What has met their end simply get brought back, maintained by Reinhard himself. Later on the role is passed to the Sonnenkind ever since the first Ougon Rensei. Somewhat related to the bit about how an Einherjar not having the concept of death and when they got offed they just respawn back in Gladsheimr. Reinhard having a finite amount of soul in the end only became a technicality, since he can just make lost soul came back

I don't remember anything about a superimposed poison that stops Regenerationn. Are you sure this was a thing?

So it's just the nature of Glads that makes it so - okay thanks.

 

[THOK_AST_THOK]

It was an explanation given by Kei in the earlier part of the game when she's explaining Die Ewigkeit to Ren. I forgot what was written exactly in the localization, but it has something to do with the history of Relic and how wounds caused by them aren't normal wounds. Every attacks from a Relic therefore also acts as a deadly poison that inhibit Regenerationn, the worse/more sinister the history become, the deadlier it gets

 

[Warren_Valion]

It was an explanation given by Kei in the earlier part of the game when she's explaining Die Ewigkeit to Ren. I forgot what was written exactly in the localization, but it has something to do with the history of Relic and how wounds caused by them aren't normal wounds. Every attacks from a Relic therefore also acts as a deadly poison that inhibit Regenerationn, the worse/more sinister the history become, the deadlier it gets

Shit, really?

I got to reread Dies Irae.


Anyway, I think that was my last question. Thanks a million.