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Immeasurable and Irrelevant speed ratings

Sorry if i sound ignorant, upper-dimensional isn't something that i think about too often, but isn't speed just distance/time?

If you work outside of distance and time, shouldn't you be above the concept of speed?
 
Vaguely adding onto Apara's statement (mainly the first line) I don't think 4D by necessity implies "above time." I'm pretty sure that's just a common misconception.

For example one can easily move around in 4 dimensions and not have any control over a time dimesion. They're 2 different things that just interact with each other.

As an example of this, a 2D character can still be Mach 5. They just can't move in our 3D space, so a 3D character would only have an AP advantage over a 2D one. Nothing is stopping the 2D person from simply running away along the 2nd dimension.

tl;dr Distance/Time only requires 1 spatial dimension, so speed should be measurable regardless of if you're 1D or 1000D. The only people who can't have speed (by definition) are 0D people, as they have nowhere to move.
 
This doesn't really account for fractional dimensions, this is just a 3D character looking down at a Mach 5 2D character. Also I don't think there's anything suggesting +1 time dimensions per spatial dimension.

Superstring Theory is literally 70% about higher dimensions and IIRC it has 10 spatial dimensions with 1 time dimension.

"In the case of string theory, consistency requires spacetime to have 10 (3D regular space + 1 time + 6D hyperspace) dimensions."

EDIT: Multiple time dimensions is mainly a curiosity and a hypothetical, the most time dimensions seriously proposed on that page is 2 (repeated here), which would strongly suggest that extra time dimensions don't get added per spatial dimension.
 
what i mean is:

time is not really """the 4th dimension""", it is kept as either unranked or ranked as N+1 in a given system

so in a 3-spatial dimensional system, time is the 4th dimension (it is commonly refered to as the 4th dimension because in those cases, people general refer to either classical mechanics or special relativity)

in a 10-spatial dimensional system, time can be called the 11th dimension

either that or the 11-D system is refered to as a system with 10 spatial and 1 temporal dimension

another unique thing about time is that the time units need to be multiplied by the speed of light and speed units to be used in general relativity frameworks and presumably in string field theory frameworks
 
That's basically my point. I was trying to say that just because they're 10D doesn't necessarily imply they also get more time dimensions, which is what would give them the speed boost. As far as I know all spatial dimensions still just have 1 time dimension, so speed should be measurable regardless of spatial complexity.
 
LordXcano said:
That's basically my point. I was trying to say that just because they're 10D doesn't necessarily imply they also get more time dimensions, which is what would give them the speed boost. As far as I know all spatial dimensions still just have 1 time dimension, so speed should be measurable regardless of spatial complexity.
Click to expand...
yeah thats waht i mean :)

it was just a communication mistake between us then :p

and yeah all of the serious models of physics as of right now have one time dimension - which makes the speed measurable and easily calculable
 
^Yeah, this becomes a little more complicated than I first though, I think that the OP's idea where to not rate characters as infinite speed by one being able to move in a timeless void, since in fiction, timeless void is another dimension aside from the mainstream one, at least in the 99% of the times...
 
Well, I do not wish to change our system until DarkLK has cleared anything.
 
Hop Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer said:
But how can we know that it is like real life's workings in this verse?
Click to expand...
Author depicts it correctly/it's backed up by feats.
 
Here is my conversation with DarkLK. I am not really sure how to solve this: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/527031
 
Case by case analysis, and not wanking things. Moving without Space-Time is not the same as a 1-A nothingness.

I really don't see the issue here. TheLivingTribunal1 keeps bringing up how real life scients fully disagree on the mechanics of Higher Dimensions, and of course they disagree, it's all theoretical science with numerous variations and interpretations.

Our Tiering System is not about being 100% scientifically accurate, it's about following through a Higher-Reality / Lower-Reality Interaction made present in a large number of fiction with cosmic and godlike beings, particularly in things such as When They Cry, Cthulhu Mythos and Tenchi Muyo, which were some of the series that inspired our Tiering System in the first place.

No non 1-A character would have Irrelevant speed for it is a nature fully exclusive to them, we cannot assume any non 1-A character is unbound by any and all dimensions of time, as that would be impossible, much like saying that a non Planet Buster should be 5-B, and we cannot invent a mechanic that says that everytime a character moves in a void in fiction, they gain X or Y type of speed.

And yes, it is extremely common for fiction to go "Beyond Time and Space" and simply mean "Beyond the space-time continuum", and we know this. Our 1-A Verses are not ranked because of such meaningless statements, and neither are the Immeasurable Speed characters. I don't see why this is worrying people, we are making a huge deal over a problem that's really non-existent.
 
Okay. Thank you for the evaluation. Our system is simultaneously based on fictions such as Umineko, on comparative size in basic geometry, and on transcendental philosophy as well.
 
@Matt

"......we cannot invent a mechanic that says that everytime a character moves in a void in fiction, they gain X or Y type of speed."

"Our 1-A Verses are not ranked because of such meaningless statements, and neither are the Immeasurable Speed characters. I don't see why this is worrying people, we are making a huge deal over a problem that's really non-existent."

My problem is the fact characters even as human as Dr. Eggman are capable of moving in Space-Time. If characters like him are able to do it, it conflicts with all of the characters in a higher level of power who recieved a rating for doing something similar. I believe there should be a rather different approach in determining the speed of these characters than simply "being able to move in a Space-Time void".
 
Infinite Speed Dr. Eggman is nonsense. These issues are easy to resolve with simple reasoning and logic. Also, all of fiction isn't one thing, showing that something works or doesn't work in one Verse doesn't mean it applies to all of fiction.
 
I agree with both Matt and DRB, how I said above, we shouldn't rate character that way just cuz can move in timeless void, if that is the case they would be able to breath in the vacuum too; better to analyse how that void works and use statements.
 
But the consistent theme of these white empty voids in fiction, regardless of how different the verses are, is that time and space is either destroyed or not exist. It's pretty hard to validate why someone like Kim or Yuri, can walk and move across a phenomemon compared to Saiki, the one who actually rules time.
 
Well, based on DarkLK's reply regarding that one must be in the water in order to swim, but will still only be able to walk on land, perhaps we should simply give characters infinite or immeasurable speed ratings as separate, within parenthesis, hax feats, if they have been able to move in a timeless void, but are othervise shown to have much more limited speeds (that should be their regular ratings)?

We should probably write a regulation or explanation about this somewhere though.
 
Instead of giving them a speed rating when its not consistent and stable with their feats outside of such a place seems inaccurate; it'd be better to just say "can move in voids" or something (obviously not a true 1-A void, what I mean should be obvious).
 
Treating it as a hax-like thing sounds good to me. But obviously if they have feats to back up such a rating (travelling instantly) it could be their regular speed.
 
Yes. That might be best.

What should this explanations say, where should we place it (just in the speed page, or somewhere else as well), and which characters would be affected?

Also, my apologies to TLT1 and LordXcano for getting worked up earlier. I always get paranoid about the wiki collapsing, whenever somebody seems to wish to mess too much with our tiering system.
 
Again, my apologies for being a raging paranoic earlier.

I agree that there is a major problem with assigning lots of fictional characters infinite or immeasurable speed for moving in a void after spacetime has been destroyed.

I would appreciate help and input regarding how best to solve this situation, so please carry on the discussion.
 
Btw: I think that if a 1-A entity brings another, much more regular, character beyond all time and space, it should only be seen as a property of the 1-A entity.
 
I agree with Prom as well. I believe we should simply note it, rather than scale characters off from it.
 
Agreed. We need a list of characters that have been inaccurately scaled from this, however, as well as a decent wording of the rule for the Speed page.
 
Perhaps we should ask the community for help in finding the inaccurately scaled characters, in a highlighted thread that is open for everybody, not just the staff?
 
@Ant I agree with that proposition. For now, I can at least name the characters who are scaled from this. There's the Creation Trio from Pokemon, Super Dimentio and Mario in the PM page, and Time Eater from Sonic.
 
Okay. Thanks. One thing at a time though. First we need to decide a wording for this regulation that should be inserted into the speed page.
 
So, does anybody have a suggestion for the wording of the regulation/explanation? I am very mentally tired, busy, and distracted in general, so I am uncertain what to write. Help would be appreciated.
 
Anybody? Matthew perhaps? You are usually good at this sort of thing. And you told me in private that you had some ideas TLT1.
 
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