Humanity's fear of control Vs Humanity's fear of eachother (Makima Vs Mahito) (0-0-0)

[Giannysmag]

Mahito is in his base form during Shibuya
Fight takes place in Shibuya
Speed is equalized
Verses are equalized

Makima: 0

Mahito: 0

Inconclusive: 1 (@GunshyFever)

 

[GunshyFever]

Makima BFRs mahito

 

[Phoenks]

Mind slave?

 

[Zabazab]

Can Makima's enhanced senses perceive Mahito? Or is she gonna be relying on her precognition.

 

[GunshyFever]

Can Makima's enhanced senses perceive Mahito? Or is she gonna be relying on her precognition.

Makimas enhanced Senses are very strong. Being able to sense the chainsaw devil in space and even perceive the gun devil at a 500km range

Not only that but as you mentioned she possesses pre-cognition, meaning she can foretell mahitos actions and BFR him

I don't see mahito winning this
Makima FRA

 

[JnSteHar002]

Not super familiar w/Makima (Only up to season 1 of CM and a few sprinkles for the rest of the series). How does she do w/Soul attacks?

 

[GunshyFever]

Not super familiar w/Makima (Only up to season 1 of CM and a few sprinkles for the rest of the series). How does she do w/Soul attacks?

Her main Wincons are;

Precognition
BFR
AP advantage
Enhanced Senses

So far we have yet to discuss more of what she can do to mahito with her arsenal of henchmen and abilities

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Makimas enhanced Senses are very strong. Being able to sense the chainsaw devil in space and even perceive the gun devil at a 500km range

Not only that but as you mentioned she possesses pre-cognition, meaning she can foretell mahitos actions and BFR him

I don't see mahito winning this
Makima FRA

Sense ≠ Perception

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

• Checked Makima profile don't see BFR and Even teleportation in her profile states something about only teleporting people who are connected by her chains
• She doens't have Enhanced Perception so she shouldn't be able perceive souls.
• Having more AP means nothing to Mahito if it can't damage Souls
• Precogn of hers has limits of putting someone else head to see the future as far as profile states

I would go with Mahito here if it's not stomp. He would just transform her into his live stock.

 

[Giannysmag]

• Checked Makima profile don't see BFR and Even teleportation in her profile states something about only teleporting people who are connected by her chains

She can BFR him by blasting him to space with telekinesis so thats one wincon

 

[Zabazab]

Checked Makima profile don't see BFR and Even teleportation in her profile states something about only teleporting people who are connected by her chains

By using a contract with the Hell Devil, she can BFR anyone she wishes to Hell, another dimension.

She doens't have Enhanced Perception so she shouldn't be able perceive souls.

She doesn't need to be able to see souls tbf, but I don't think she can see invisible things like Curses (only seen on an invisible frequency of light).

Precogn of hers has limits of putting someone else head to see the future as far as profile states

The precog allows her to directly see a few moments into the future.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

She can BFR him by blasting him to space with telekinesis so thats one wincon

By using a contract with the Hell Devil, she can BFR anyone she wishes to Hell, another dimension.

The precog allows her to directly see a few moments into the future.

Why I'm not seeing anything in her profile?

She doesn't need to be able to see souls tbf, but I don't think she can see invisible things like Curses (only seen on an invisible frequency of light).

Yeah my bad still Curses are invisible. So either way she needs to perceive him to do anything

 

[Giannysmag]

Why I'm not seeing anything in her profile?

Profile sucks ass and i believe theres a CRT right now trying to fix it

 

[GunshyFever]

Why I'm not seeing anything in her profile?

There is a CRT for her profile which will cover most if not all her abilities, its only a few before it is used

Yeah my bad still Curses are invisible. So either way she needs to perceive him to do anything

Curses are created from negative emotions from humans
Devils are created from the fear (which is a negative emotion) of humans

Makima would be classified as a curse/be able to perceive curses

Mahitos wincons are;
idle transfig
Transmutation
Domain expansion

Makima can;
foresee all his attacks with her precognition
Control his transmutation curses
Use her wide variety of henchmen to damage him (Hybrids such as Katana Man have been shown to cut through things such as the ghost devil who is intangible, the soul also being intangible)
Her telekinesis and BFR related abilities

This is pretty much a stomp for makima

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Curses are created from negative emotions from humans
Devils are created from the fear (which is a negative emotion) of humans

Makima would be classified as a curse/be able to perceive curses

• Are devils invincible?

Makima can;
foresee all his attacks with her precognition

Speed is equal. SBA range should be around standard mele range. So precognition isn't doing much help here.

Control his transmutation curses

If she controls them he would just kill them with one touch.

Use her wide variety of henchmen to damage him (Hybrids such as Katana Man have been shown to cut through things such as the ghost devil who is intangible, the soul also being intangible)

This doens't work on Curses because of Invulnerability. Also a character being Intangible ≠ same as interacting with souls. We have intangible curses In JJK still Sorcerers who can interact with them can't interact with Mahito's Souls

Her telekinesis and BFR related abilities

Only Wincon she has

This is pretty much a stomp for makima

Not a stomp if she can't harm him.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Curses are invulnerable to attacks without Cursed Energy so not sure if telekinesis would work

But if her MindHax works, than she probably stomps

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Following.

 

[Zabazab]

Curses are created from negative emotions from humans
Devils are created from the fear (which is a negative emotion) of humans

Devils, unlike Curses, are for the most part visible.

Her best options are mind hax and BFR.

 

[GunshyFever]

Devils, unlike Curses, are for the most part visible.

Her best options are mind hax and BFR.

I'm pretty sure she also doesn't see devils, she only recognizes thier scent

I believe this would apply for mahito

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I'm pretty sure she also doesn't see devils, she only recognizes thier scent

I believe this would apply for mahito

He only exhibits some kind of fear aura like Jogo if I'm correct we don't have anything on Curses having a scent as far as I remember. I might be wrong though.

 

[Zabazab]

If Mahito produces smell, sound, etc. Then yeah Makima will pick it up. There are also animals that can see ultraviolet light, but I'm not sure if any such critters would be in Shibuya.

 

[Duedate8898]

Actually, as we understand Curses their sounds nor smells can be perceived with cursed energy as seen by those that attach themselves to people without notice. A woman had an entire curse on her shoulders, weighing her down and making noises but never seemed to react to it.

I don't think Makima can percieve Mahito, and without that this very much a stomp in his favor because her precognition doesn't really help her when she has no way to avoid the danger. Even her invulnerability doesn't really work since the changing of the soul's shape might not be considered a physical attack.

 

[Giannysmag]

Since there's a whole debate about if Makima can even percieve Mahito, should i just equalize the verses to make it eaieron everyone?

 

[Duedate8898]

Probably for the best.

 

[Giannysmag]

Done

 

[Arkenis]

This is a stomp for Makima. She's superior to Mahito, has greater hax and can simply incap him. Her telekinesis also makes his main win con of touching her unlikely.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Since there's a whole debate about if Makima can even percieve Mahito, should i just equalize the verses to make it eaieron everyone?

I mean even if you equalise the verse the point is she lacks perception. Equalization does not provide additional abilities.

 

[Zabazab]

If Makima can't perceive Mahito at all it's likely a stomp for him.

I do think her Contract would transfer the the damage done by Mahito since he definitely considers his Cursed Technique an attack, but I can't bothered to argue it since she can't even see him.

 

[GunshyFever]

Actually, as we understand Curses their sounds nor smells can be perceived with cursed energy as seen by those that attach themselves to people without notice. A woman had an entire curse on her shoulders, weighing her down and making noises but never seemed to react to it.

I mean that's contradictory to the fact that the requirement to see a curse is that you need to possess a certain amount of cursed energy.

Cursed energy is manifested out of negative emotions.
Makima is the embodiment of the fear of control (loosing free will)

This fits all the requirements to perceiving a curse

(Just seeing the verses being equalized so this would fit the standard)

I don't think Makima can percieve Mahito, and without that this very much a stomp in his favor because her precognition doesn't really help her when she has no way to avoid the danger. Even her invulnerability doesn't really work since the changing of the soul's shape might not be considered a physical atattack.

I disagree, makima would easily keep the distance between them with her telekinesis and overwhelm mahito with her hench men

She would have time to forsee and BFR mahito ending the fight

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I mean that's contradictory to the fact that the requirement to see a curse is that you need to possess a certain amount of cursed energy.

Cursed energy is manifested out of negative emotions.
Makima is the embodiment of the fear of control (loosing free will)

This fits all the requirements to perceiving a curse

It isn't really.
She is embodiment of fear or whatever without feats for her perceiving something on that level she isn't doing anything canonically. Need feats for that.
Also as I already mentioned Curses are invisible but devils aren't as far as Remember.

(Just seeing the verses being equalized so this would fit the standard)

I mean even if you equalise the verse the point is she lacks perception. Equalization does not provide additional abilities.

^

 

[GunshyFever]

It isn't really.
She is embodiment of fear or whatever without feats for her perceiving something on that level she isn't doing anything canonically. Need feats for that.
Also as I already mentioned Curses are invisible but devils aren't as far as Remember.

Yeah I gotchu

I guess mind hax and her contract are her only current wincons

Honestly wouldn't mahito just have to sit there killing makima repeatedly trying to shred through 126+ mill lives, let's also not forget the time she takes to regenerate which will only increase the time this will take

He hasn't shown stamina on that level, and he might even run low on cursed energy

But makima wont be able to perceive him

I'm going on inconclusive with this

 

[Giannysmag]

I'm going on inconclusive with this

Counted

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yeah I gotchu

I guess mind hax and her contract are her only current wincons

Honestly wouldn't mahito just have to sit there killing makima repeatedly trying to shred through 126+ mill lives, let's also not forget the time she takes to regenerate which will only increase the time this will take

He hasn't shown stamina on that level, and he might even run low on cursed energy

But makima wont be able to perceive him

I'm going on inconclusive with this

Didn't Denji eat her? Mahito can trainform her and keep her as his live stock in his stomach. How would she come back from that.
Also SBA he needs to put her down for an hour if I'm correct to take the win. Let me check.

 

[GunshyFever]

Didn't Denji eat her? Mahito can trainform her and keep her as his live stock in his stomach. How would she come back from that.
Also SBA he needs to put her down for an hour if I'm correct to take the win. Let me check.

Denji only was able to defeat her because he ate her with positive intentions to become "one with her" as a sign of love (he was only able to eat her in the first place by heavily slowing down her regeneration to a great extent with powers blood)

This bypassed the contract as it was not an attack

As zabazab said earlier mahito sees his transformation of the soul as an attack therefore it will be transfered to a random Japanese citizen

 

[SeijiSetto]

Speed is equal. SBA range should be around standard mele range. So precognition isn't doing much help here.

nuh uh
quoting the SBA page:

Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers.

Makima has 100s of kms range w/ her TK, so they start 4km away.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

nuh uh
quoting the SBA page:

Makima has 100s of kms range w/ her TK, so they start 4km away.

Blame the guy who only bolded Standard Melee Range in Makima page
Yeah you are right my bad. I should have read full thing.

 

[Epiccheev]

Even her invulnerability doesn't really work since the changing of the soul's shape might not be considered a physical attack.

Her contract is specified as reflecting "harm" into Japanese citizens, and in this case harm seems intention oriented, since Denji was able to bypass it b6 convincing himself eating Makima was an "act of love".

 

[Maitreya12]

She can BFR him by blasting him to space with telekinesis so thats one wincon

This would not work on Mahito since he can just break his body into pieces.

Mind hax may not also work because curses have explicitly different minds than humans which allows them to recover from exposure to unlimited void in a very short amount of time.

 

[Arkenis]

This would not work on Mahito since he can just break his body into pieces.

Mind hax may not also work because curses have explicitly different minds than humans which allows them to recover from exposure to unlimited void in a very short amount of time.

That was from a 0.2 second exposure to it, Halloween will be continuous.

 

[Maitreya12]

Jogo was exposed for quite some time to unlimited void and he still recovered just fine.

Also UV has like special properties to it considered on the wiki, whereas like I mentioned before, curses don’t have what’s considered a mind or brain like humans do.